Dirty gritty drained oil when I did the oil change today

dlmartin81 · 03-13-2010, 10:34 PM

Found this......I know it's talking about aviation engines but probably the same.

AeroShell 100 Plus - Shell Aviation

"Metals such as Copper are normally a problem for oils as they cause oil to degrade quicker than they would otherwise. This can be a problem as many General Aviation engines contain Copper - the largest area is normally found on cam shafts which is left over from the manufacturing process.

When cams are manufactured the cam face is often hardened using a process called Nitriding. This leaves a hard, but brittle, surface - ideal for the cam face, but not for the rest of the shaft. The rest of the shaft does not need to be hardened and it performs better if the surface is not brittle from the Nitriding process. So to protect the rest of the shaft, a thin layer of Copper plating is used to cover all the areas which do not need to be hardened. Once the cam has been manufactured this Copper serves no useful purpose, but it is not removed. This can be a problem for the oil in an engine because, as I have mentioned, the copper acts as a catalyst to make the oil degrade faster than normal - and a degraded oil does not make a good lubricant."

LaSeeno · 03-13-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlmartin81

I talked to an old buddy of mine who used to be a mechanic and he said that a lot of time when oil is brown, it's due to a bad head gasket (I think it was a head gasket, that he said) and you have coolant getting in and mixing with the oil. I don't know, I think that's what he said.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

It does but even if a HG explains the milkiness--all that copper screams of rod/journal bearings. Get it checked ASAP, no need to keep speculating. You most likely have a serious issue.

TheSnakeJake · 03-13-2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlmartin81

I talked to an old buddy of mine who used to be a mechanic and he said that a lot of time when oil is brown, it's due to a bad head gasket (I think it was a head gasket, that he said) and you have coolant getting in and mixing with the oil. I don't know, I think that's what he said.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

yep, your buddy is right. a blown head gasket will introduce coolant into the oil and will make it very milky...

dlmartin81 · 03-14-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaSeeno

It does but even if a HG explains the milkiness--all that copper screams of rod/journal bearings. Get it checked ASAP, no need to keep speculating. You most likely have a serious issue.

I do want to get it taken care ASAP but I'm not sure if I should wait a week or two so that the oil has time to collect some of the crap that I saw a week ago. I'm afraid of going to early and risk them saying, "I don't see anything wrong with your oil." I might try to drain a quart to get a sample and then top it off again. But yes, I'm definitely not going to wait long.

m4a1mustang · 03-14-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlmartin81

I do want to get it taken care ASAP but I'm not sure if I should wait a week or two so that the oil has time to collect some of the crap that I saw a week ago. I'm afraid of going to early and risk them saying, "I don't see anything wrong with your oil." I might try to drain a quart to get a sample and then top it off again. But yes, I'm definitely not going to wait long.

Like someone already said, you can drain just enough for a sample and then top off with fresh oil. If you have a siphon pump you can just siphon some out of the oil pan through the dipstick tube.

spearfish25 · 03-14-2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Like someone already said, you can drain just enough for a sample and then top off with fresh oil. If you have a siphon pump you can just siphon some out of the oil pan through the dipstick tube.

Even without a pump, you can get some tubing at Home Depot, insert it down the dipstick hole and just suck some out by mouth. I did this the last oil change when I overfilled a bit.

m4a1mustang · 03-14-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Even without a pump, you can get some tubing at Home Depot, insert it down the dipstick hole and just suck some out by mouth. I did this the last oil change when I overfilled a bit.

You can suck, yes, but it's not a good thing for a man to do.

Trips · 03-14-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

You can suck, yes, but it's not a good thing for a man to do.

semtex · 03-14-2010, 03:47 PM

Dan, at the very least, go to Blackstone's website and order their test kit. It's free. They don't charge you anything until you fill it with oil and send it back to them for analysis. But at least get the kit so that you have it in hand when you finally decide to drain some for analysis. Also, I don't know about others, but when I suggested that you go ahead and drain some and then top it off, I was thinking in terms of draining some to send to Blackstone, not to take to the dealer. Indeed, if you show up at the dealer with a Blackstone report showing abnormally high levels of wear, that's some massive ammo you have in hand which will hopefully preempt any of their BS denial.

dlmartin81 · 03-14-2010, 06:34 PM

^^ I just ordered the testing kit.

I have a few questions:

1) How long will it take to arrive at my doorstep?
2) What's the turnaround time for them to do the testing and reveal to you your results?
3) Are the results sent via e-mail?
4) Also, since I just did my change last week, my oil is still pretty fresh. Will there be enough evidence in oil if the oil is less than a month old?

I guess I'm just trying to find out if it's a quick process or a lengthy one. God knows I don't want to wait too long.

semtex · 03-15-2010, 07:48 AM

1. about a week
2. depends on how you send it to them. I sent it USPS priority on a Monday and they emailed me my results that Wednesday. Doesn't get much quicker than that.
3. answered that
4. depends more on mileage than on how old. How many miles do you accumulate in a typical week?

kannibul · 03-15-2010, 07:52 AM

My vote...water in oil

Check your coolant level, see if it's low. That could be a clue.

Then again, maybe your engine had Nissan Ester in it, and you're seeing the nano particles? (joke...sorry)

kannibul · 03-15-2010, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSnakeJake

yes, in the owner's manual.

5w30 oil is required. nissan ester oil is recommended.

Just as a Ford manual will recommend Ford oil, etc.

dlmartin81 · 03-15-2010, 10:03 AM

I just called Black Stone and they said that they like to have at least 1K miles on the oil to do the analysis.

I think what I'll do is...wait that long, drain what ever is need for testing and then immediately take my car to the dealer, while the oil is being analyzed. And then follow up with the dealer with my (Black Stone's) results.

I don't know that I want to wait 1K and then wait some more to receive the tests before going to the dealer.

What do you guys think?

semtex · 03-15-2010, 10:06 AM

Two days? You can't wait two days for your test results so that you have solid evidence in hand to take to the dealer?

03-14-2010, 03:47 PM	#69 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 53 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	Dan, at the very least, go to Blackstone's website and order their test kit. It's free. They don't charge you anything until you fill it with oil and send it back to them for analysis. But at least get the kit so that you have it in hand when you finally decide to drain some for analysis. Also, I don't know about others, but when I suggested that you go ahead and drain some and then top it off, I was thinking in terms of draining some to send to Blackstone, not to take to the dealer. Indeed, if you show up at the dealer with a Blackstone report showing abnormally high levels of wear, that's some massive ammo you have in hand which will hopefully preempt any of their BS denial. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

03-14-2010, 06:34 PM	#70 (permalink)
dlmartin81 Track Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chalfont, PA Age: 42 Posts: 923 Drives: 09 370Z Rep Power: 607	^^ I just ordered the testing kit. I have a few questions: 1) How long will it take to arrive at my doorstep? 2) What's the turnaround time for them to do the testing and reveal to you your results? 3) Are the results sent via e-mail? 4) Also, since I just did my change last week, my oil is still pretty fresh. Will there be enough evidence in oil if the oil is less than a month old? I guess I'm just trying to find out if it's a quick process or a lengthy one. God knows I don't want to wait too long. Last edited by dlmartin81; 03-14-2010 at 06:38 PM. Reason: Added another question.

03-15-2010, 07:48 AM	#71 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 53 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	1. about a week 2. depends on how you send it to them. I sent it USPS priority on a Monday and they emailed me my results that Wednesday. Doesn't get much quicker than that. 3. answered that 4. depends more on mileage than on how old. How many miles do you accumulate in a typical week? __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

03-15-2010, 07:52 AM	#72 (permalink)
kannibul A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Jenks, OK Posts: 2,281 Drives: 370z Touring/Sport Rep Power: 267	My vote...water in oil Check your coolant level, see if it's low. That could be a clue. Then again, maybe your engine had Nissan Ester in it, and you're seeing the nano particles? (joke...sorry) Last edited by kannibul; 03-15-2010 at 07:56 AM.

03-15-2010, 10:03 AM	#74 (permalink)
dlmartin81 Track Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chalfont, PA Age: 42 Posts: 923 Drives: 09 370Z Rep Power: 607	I just called Black Stone and they said that they like to have at least 1K miles on the oil to do the analysis. I think what I'll do is...wait that long, drain what ever is need for testing and then immediately take my car to the dealer, while the oil is being analyzed. And then follow up with the dealer with my (Black Stone's) results. I don't know that I want to wait 1K and then wait some more to receive the tests before going to the dealer. What do you guys think? Last edited by dlmartin81; 03-15-2010 at 10:06 AM.

03-13-2010, 10:34 PM	#61 (permalink)
dlmartin81 Track Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chalfont, PA Age: 42 Posts: 923 Drives: 09 370Z Rep Power: 607	Found this......I know it's talking about aviation engines but probably the same. AeroShell 100 Plus - Shell Aviation "Metals such as Copper are normally a problem for oils as they cause oil to degrade quicker than they would otherwise. This can be a problem as many General Aviation engines contain Copper - the largest area is normally found on cam shafts which is left over from the manufacturing process. When cams are manufactured the cam face is often hardened using a process called Nitriding. This leaves a hard, but brittle, surface - ideal for the cam face, but not for the rest of the shaft. The rest of the shaft does not need to be hardened and it performs better if the surface is not brittle from the Nitriding process. So to protect the rest of the shaft, a thin layer of Copper plating is used to cover all the areas which do not need to be hardened. Once the cam has been manufactured this Copper serves no useful purpose, but it is not removed. This can be a problem for the oil in an engine because, as I have mentioned, the copper acts as a catalyst to make the oil degrade faster than normal - and a degraded oil does not make a good lubricant."

03-15-2010, 10:06 AM	#75 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 53 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	Two days? You can't wait two days for your test results so that you have solid evidence in hand to take to the dealer? __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

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