High Oil Temp = power + throttle response loss?
 

Well today I was cruising around, I came upon these 2 cars driving really really slow. When the road allowed I decided to pass them and it never occured to me what they were doing. They were waiting for the long straight of road to race eachother apparently. Well I was the first to pass them as I did not know. It was a newer looking Honda S2000 and Civic Si and they both gunne dit as soon as I passed them. My question is why the hell was I not able to pull away from the S200 at an insane rate? Both cars were bone stock. No loud exhaust, no intake noise, nothing. Even the dam Civic Si was able to keep up on an uphill area adn the S2000 was still right on my ***.
This was what my Oil Temp looked like about 15 mins after of just easy driving so before it was above 260 degrees. Does the amount of power output decrease durastically?
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/v...iltemphigh.jpg

And I drove around for a while after this little incident. I was pissed and wanted to see if the Z could at least cool itself down. Well it couldnt and stayed at this mark with very easy driving.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/v...dailydrive.jpg

The thing that really pissed me off was the Civic pulled up next to me and the driver said "I was really expecting a lot more out of a modded 370" and the driver of the S2K gave me a thumbs down. lol embarrassing as hell. I wouldnt doubt that the S2K coulda beat me at a drag race from a dig. My 370z is broken or somethng is wrong with it. I cant powershift it because it doesnt like to be powershifted. I cant drive it hard because it will go into limp mode and apparently its a lot easier to do it than I expected. God I don't know what to with the car.

Even if your temp was at 250 you should have been able to pull away from a civic. Sounds like you were in the wrong gear.

:stirthepot:

lol I was in 2nd and was doing about 30 mph and bounced it off the rev limiter. When I went to shift to 3rd I looked in the mirror and the civic still somewhat kept up. I was expecting to completely lose him but I wasnt pulling as strong as I though. When I did this I must have been at 265 degrees or womewhere since it was right after I decided to pass the cars. One of my friends has an 08 C6 coupe and that thing pulls on the Z like you wouldnt believe. But in comparison, the Z and the C6 compared to the Z and the Si, there would be a much larger gap between the the Z and the Si than the vette. Im just confused as too how people notice any gains from the bolt ons on this car. When I started modding my RSX I didnt notice any gains until I K-PRO'd it and even then all I felt was torque. Not sure how much faster it made it top end wise. The last thing I do will be FI LTH and then Ill re dyno it to see if full bolt ons will help as much as I think they will. Im a little disappointed with the Z. It takes turns great but an S2K and civic... not right man. not right.

Maybe your engine did receive some damage from the prior incident. You'll have to go up against another Z or hit the dyno.

Don't you have an oil cooler? If your oil temp hits above 150 I believe it goes into limp mode.

My manual states 280 degrees is when the engine cuts back power.

280?! That seems awfully high. I thought it was 260. Even still, I never get above 220 during normal driving and never over 230 at the track.

Oil cooler ftw...

I don't see anything past 230 with aggressive driving, and I'm not running a cooler yet...

yeah, i've raced quite a few SI's and S2K's at the track, and usually have them both by over a second, sounds like something might be wrong with your car man.

Ok, first off, the S2000's little 4 banger puts out about 240bhp, and the car is about 600lbs lighter then the 370z. That motor is putting out a 120bhp per liter in comparison to ours which is about 89bhp per liter.
Real world test on the S2000 is 0-60 5.7 average, 13.8 1/4 mile. Now, compare that to the Z's numbers and tell me how much do you really think you were going to pull on it?

Also, your assuming they were stock, how do you really know, could of had a mellow exhaust and a tune, who knows, but even a stock S2000 will give you a run for the money. Heck my Mini Cooper Turbo sounds pretty stock, but with the tune I have and the mild cat back, intake, etc. it has surprised more then a few Vette's, Mustangs, etc. putting out 200fwhp and it's only 2500lbs :-)
Damm near as quick as the 370z.

Anyway, don't feel bad, there is nothing wrong with your car, you just didn't know what you were up against :tup:

On a side note, my Z, without a doubt, runs a little slugish when the oil temp hits 220, I can definitely notice the difference in responsiveness on a hot day compared to when the temps are in the 180 range. Only fix for that is an aftermarket oil cooler, which is something I will definitely be purchasing in the future.

I owned an S2k for a good while as one of my first tuner cars, while the horsepower was decent, theres only so much 162 ft/lbs will do for you. Mine actually dyno'ed at 173whp and 117 ft./lbs on a dynojet, broke my heart really. Truth be told, given its history, the S2k is a solid track car, but he should have pulled quite a bit. I'm a weekend warrior at the drags here, usually race one ever other week, and like i stated before, theres usually 1-1.2 second ET difference. Keep in mind that he also has the FI exhaust and G3's.

Well at 280F, the ECU would limit the revs. Even if limiter didn't start to reduce your rev's yet, at 260F, there could still be some moderate power loss just from the engine being very hot.

Remember that at 100MPH, 1 second is about 150 feet...


But to the OP, you lost because you weren't on a drag strip and your Z knows....

Unfortunatel the S2K was stock because I know the kid who drives it. The only reason I say WTF to why I didn't pull on it was because once I did get full bolts and tune on my RSX I could keep up with S2K's easy. I really think there might be something wrong with my Z after the oil cooler exploded. When I start it up and let the temp get to 180 every gear pulls pretty solid above 3500 rpms. I am not expecting any huge gains off the G3's and FI cat back together but asking for at least 25 rwhp would make a difference in trap speeds. Im tempted to dyno the Z right now before I get my LTH installed but id rather find out once I get them. Either way, I know what I saw and I saw me attmept to pass a Civic Si and S2000 and once I got near the S2K he gunned it and I already was in the top of 2nd and once I shifted into 3rd I slowly, slowly pulled ahead. It was so slow that I was considering breaking and just going back into the lane behind both cars. The S2K doesnt even trap 100 mph. Like someone said earlier at that rate of speed 1mph is a huge difference. Even ET of .1 seconds is a difference in distance. So if I was going by the power to weight ratio, the Z with my mods wins over the S2K. Embarassing moment for me.

Well, in this case, I'd say it was the driver that made the difference.

1) I've yet to crack 260F with even some seriously "get you thrown in jail" type driving after 20-30 minutes. The fact that you claim to have hit that or higher, well...shows how you have no clue what you're doing and where you're at.

2) You didn't know it was a race...or claim to. That gives them a serious advantage.

3) This is talking about a street race, which I imagine would cause this thread to get locked as street racing isn't condoned.

Yeah. I had to use the bathroom so I decided to stop at this hotel which was close to use a bathroom. I decided to go to room 208 and there was this naked lady in there who was not my wife but I decided to use the bathroom only. But when I came out she attacked me really bad and some how got my pants undone and her mouth on me. My wife's not going to be mad right?
Later on she said your the best and said my name and gave me a thumbs up? I am so furious I got caught up in this!

Several posts later some one says..
“Maybe she was some freaky person and that's her thing and shes not stock”
my response:
Well I kind of know her and shes not freaky so I really cant understand why she did it. And she is stock.

The end. (this story is just fictitious on my part for the enjoyment of the thread)

just ruin the F'n part kannibul lol. yeah the car doesn't pull to terribly hard on an s2000 but it pulls after the thumbs down from the guy, you could have told him to STFU not only were you faster than him and he was upset about that, you could have beat him stock (trust me) and your car is bank compared to his so you win standing still hell you don't even have to be in it just walk out of a store or something and unlock it with the key fob and the guy should be bending over. Did you take the cooler off after the line exploded? I've had my car really hot with no cooler (over 260) and after ten minutes of 1500-2200 revs it'll be back down to 220(which is a good hot operating temp on a warm day without a cooler) going about 65-70 remember the car cools faster the faster you go with low revs and throttle.

Guy you seriously need FI

Couple things:

1) Are you sure you weren't spinning your tires? If I suddenly floor it in 2nd, my tires light up.

2) What were your temps before trying to pass these guys? Your car's oil temp will NOT jump from 220 to 260 with a single aggressive acceleration. It takes some persistent, aggressive driving to get to 260.

I went to the San Antonio Raceway for Wednesday nights Test and Tune and had a blast. Check out my new sig. My car impressed the hell out of me especially the 109.49 trap speed with only HFC and Short Ram Intake (Takeda).

What were the temps when you ran you car? The night I ran the outside temps were at 42F I never got her past 230F hot lapping for like 10 runs. The Z really likes cool weather motor was running strong as hell that night.

Here is the tread I wrote in the Track section on the forum:
http://www.the370z.com/track-autocro...h-hfc-sri.html

to the OP (for what its worth).
I notes a little difference with the power delivery of my car when i have VDC off, and the Sync rev on. VS VDC on and Sync rev off.

lol kannibal. anyway you guys r missing the point. I was asking what the performance decrease is on the Z when oil temps r that high. no one has answered and I dont think anyone knows. I have recorded a few videos and I will show you there is something wrong with my Z. Today on the way to work I was in 5th gear at roughly 50-65 mph the entire time and the temp stayed at 210 degrees. later once I can get a chance I will get a video showing how fast it will go from 200-260. its really wierd

What RPM range are you driving in?

besides the oil temp getting hot, you have to remember the engine is getting hot too and causing heat soak resulting in power loss. So if your temps were already up there then the engine temps were probably too. Are engines run really hot and probably heat soak more than other cars like 4 bangers.

My question is... why were you street racing?

Why does everyone think he was street racing?
He was passing two other cars that ended up street racing, he waited for the road to open and pass and they were waiting for the road to open to race.

yea!!!! Im always passing cars.

jesus. heres what happened. I (me) driving around on back roads above the speed limit. yes i stated above the speed limit. i came upon 2 cars, one was tail gating the other. the speed limit is 45 mph and they were doing approximately 30. i passed them once it was LEGAL to pass them. when I was about to pass the S2K he gunned it. Since I had WOT I figured Id humor him but it didnt turn out that way. Then like 1 mile later the last part of the back road ends in an uphill straight. the civic was right behind me and I wanted to see if my Z would get away from it, it didnt. Thats what happened. the civic wasnt a race, i was already infront him him.

Furthermore, when I get pulled over for speeding, if and when the cop runs my plates he hands me back my info once he receives the information and tells me to slow down, no ticket, no questions, nothing.why? because I have more than likely backed that chippie or sherrif up in a vehicle stop and if not, I probably will eventually. so if I want to do a little spirited drive early in the morning, I am going to as long as traffic is light.

Ill post the vids as soon as I get home. In 5th gear at 60 mph is under 3K rpms and thats usually my normal drive through that area. I didnt expect to get flamed and I am asking for some knowledge on the matter but hey its a forum. And unfortuantely in my opinion, the Z as a stock car isnt what I expected it to be. I am thinking of buying another Oil Cooler from GTM and having them installing it which will more than likely solve my issue then hopefully I can go to cal speedway or willow springs with many of the forum members in so cal here.

If you were at 265 the car might be in first stage limiting mode, slightly.
Also, you said you were going uphill and at those engine temps you are getting massive amounts of heat soak into the air intake system.

Overall I would just say your car was just running hot, I know your past with an oil cooler, but a better intake & oil cooler at those temps will help keep the car running at maximum output even when hot.

Why would you buy another GTM Oil Cooler after the last incident? Or are you referring to upgrading to the larger setrab cooler?

true. but I figure if I have installed by "professional" the issue wont arise hopefully but I am most certainly not skilled enough to even drive the car hard enough to best the standard size oil cooler. I never saw what had happened to Travisjb but I haven't asked him what kit he had. I like the Z a lot, even though I say I hate it and shoulda waited and bought a Z06. I want to enjoy the Z As much as I can before I get rid of it but you guys will see once I post the vids. If you're not sugar coating your statements and DO NOT see oil temps over 230 with aggressive driving, you'l be in wtf mode all day once I post the vids. My car will shoot from 210-230 in just a 1st-3rd gear pull at WOT. it bugs the crap out of me.

btw did your package arrive in good condition or did they play soccer with it?

i agree. i think i may have experienced some sort of electronic limiter. i remember reading that once the Z had over 5k miles on it the oil cooling issues wasn't as bad. Im hoping that may be the case since my car has a little over 2000 miles. i think its really gonna show once I re dyno it with full bolt ons to see wether or not my past issue with the oil cooler damaged anything or not.

If you were at the top of X gear and then floored it, do you think you experienced your VDC kicking in without knowing it?

That's a good point.

I would just put some Unicorn Blood in her, and she will fly!

I guess I'll say it but yes, the Z feels significantly slower at hot oil temps. Running the car WOT at 180 vs 220 has a very very noticeable difference in acceleration and throttle response. I thought I was hallucinating so I performed a series of tests and my theory was correct. Like someone said, the Z really hates heat. In cold, it is such a champ tho.

I've owned an AP2 S2000 (the faster version in a straight line). The S2000 is a quick little car but you should definitely have beaten it by a big margin. When I used to run my s2k against 350Zs, i would slowly pull from away from the DE motors (03-04) but the HR ones (07-08) would completely OWN me. Not just once but exact same results with multiple cars and even driver changes. The 370 and the s2k aren't in the same performance class anymore, and i actually believe you when you said you couldn't pull away because at 260 degrees, my Z feels slower than my s2k felt.

it was definetely off. Ive gotten into a habbit of turning it off as soon as I start the car. Unless the road is road is wet, even damp, i dont want some unexpected tail kicking.

I think once I re dyno Ima ask if I can get a 3rd single pull on the dynojet and get the oil temp near 260 and put it on the dyno. then we can all see once and for all if its the case.

Ok well here the vids are. For everyone saying they dont see high temps heres what I see very day.

Here is a daily drive through a back road to work. I was in 5th gear the whole time. Video was taken after about 15 mins and the speed was from 50-70; 60-65 being the average.


Here is a shot at night obviously. Watch the oil temp move jsut from 2 pulls. Imagine if I was a track and always about 4k rpms... and the optimum would be at least 5k.


Here ya go. Only a few pulls and look how high it is. This was take only a few mins of driving after the one above. There is something wrong with my car for it to be increasing in temps so quickly.

Oh i believe you about the oil temps shooting up. On my way home I drive up a steady incline for about 14 miles in traffic and I see temperatures easily reach 220+ on a cool day. On a warm summer day, I can get the needle around 250.

The engine heats up pretty fast. So loss of power due to heat soak would not be surprising.

first off i have gotten the engine hot so i believe you, second if i'm going over 50 and cruising i'd be in 6th not 5th you'd be suprised how much that effects your oil temps. when your cruising around try keeping your R's right around 2 not 3 thousand it will help considerably. i save the higher revs for when i'm having fun or racing it otherwise i stay low so that when i do want to screw around it's fairly cool. I can say that on a long road trip doing 73 on cruise control in 6th it stays right around 220

He wasn't.