E-85 on a stock 370z?
 

I have done some searches and have not come up with a concrete answer yet so here goes....Can you run E-85 in a 2010 370z? I have added Stillen Gen 3 CAI and ARK DT-S exhaust. It was originally tuned on 93 octane. Can I switch over to E-85 safely? Do I need an E-85 sensor kit? I was thinking of switching to E-85 if possible and having it retuned as I am about to add Berk Resonated Test Pipes. I read the owner's manual and it specifically says not to use E-85 but I wanted to ask people with more experience here who have already done this. Thanks in advance and apologies if I missed the answer in the existing E-85 threads.

I just tuned a 100% stock 2015 roadster on E85 with ecutek, no mods except it had GTR injectors to provide the necessary fueling. The car used my software flexfuel programming that allows adjustment of ethanol content without the use of a sensor.

There is a dyno sheet if you scroll through, the car made 310 whp.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAV39eQHZcB/

GTR injectors are the easy go-to. Then all you need is a tune.

Specialty Z offers a flexfuel kit that would make it much easier, but you can have separate 93 and E85 maps and just switch, but you have to run it way down low before switching w/o that kit.

I've been thinking about this, but my Z sits in the garage for the winter months. From what I hear, I would need to ensure there is no E85 in the tank during these periods.

Make your last tank before storage 93?

Nice results!
I'm surprised the stock fuel pump was able to provide enough volume.
What was the maximum injector pulse width on E85 with the GT-R injectors?

I’m running e85 on 1050cc injectors - flex fuel from specialty Z - stock fuel pump.

Thanks for the reply...
I'm going to double check my fuel calculation to see how much reserve capacity the stock pump has for gasoline/stock injectors and E85 with 570cc (stock GT-rR) and 1050cc injectors.

If the temperature in the garage doesn't change much, you should be OK storing the car for a few months with E85 in the tank.

If the temp varies widely, the tank can breathe and suck in some moisture with each breath.

if I dont upgrade my car by this year, I might do e85 with gtr injector and flex fuel from specialty z

I’m surprised that a stock 370z can handle E85 without any damage to the various fuel lines, seals and other plastic and rubber parts in the fuel system. It’s good to know if higher than 10% ethanol is ever mandated in Canada.

My garage isn't HVAC controlled and I live in Maryland. The average temperatures range from 20f in the winter to 100f in the summer. The accumulation of moisture in the fuel system is my concern.

So I switched over yesterday to try and test. I ran the car down to as far on empty as I could, which was no longer registering a distance on the miles till empty, filled it half way with E-85 and drive about 50 miles, then filled it back up to full with e85. This car is running fine, except it threw a code (U0164 Lost Communication With HVAC Control Module, CAN Communication Error) which I am not sure is at all related. What didn't happen as I expected, the OBD2 never changed from fuel_type = GAS. I would have expected it to switch to E85, Ethanol, or similar. How does the ECU know I am now on E85 and not 93 to use the different fuel map? I have not had it tuned on E85, obviously, and will do it after my Berk test pipe arrives Friday and is installed. Just curious if this is a workable situation or do I need to get one of the E85 kits from Zspeed, CZP, or Z1?

The OBD PID for "fuel type" does not indicate what fuel is in the tank, it indicates what fuel type the ECU is programmed for.

The ECU has no idea what fuel type is in use, since the car isn't designed for it, it doesn't have a ethanol sensor.

With the E85 in the tank and a stock ECU I would think the engine is running lean. The target air/fuel ratio (stoichiometric ratio) are very different: Gas 14.7:1, E85: 9.8:1

Why would you ever attempt to run E85 without a tune?

The car is definitely running very lean at the moment, especially WOT as the car can correct up to 25% during idle/cruising but it will take a while for it to apply that to WOT fueling, and on top of it the injectors aren't big enough to go full throttle.

I would estimate that you'll be doing permanent damage after a few pulls.

Lean burn. Turning the tops of the pistons into silly putty. :icon14:

Which is why I asked in advance. But I guess there ya go for stupidity. Never trust internet trolls. I have barely driven and not done any hard pulls yet so I guess thats a saving grace. Time to drain the tank and put some 93 back in it until I can finish the build and get the rest done. I love how no one says, don't do that until xyz is done until after you do it and even ask people in advance. So what all do you need to run E85 well and realize some benefits (without going full twin turbo at this time)? Injectors? E85 sensor kit? what else?

You got your answer in posts #2 and 3. You need injectors. Post #2- Bythabay (Eugene) is a master Ecutek tuner. Contact him, he can tune it for you without the need of the ethanol sensor.

lol you'll read replies by internet trolls on who knows what site, but you won't read legitimate responses in your own Z forum thread? :rolleyes:

What the hell are you talking about? I asked and all the post up to the were about how I changed this or that and I am running fine. Not a single response given was remotely good until the first guy said on hell no. You need to learn to read JARblue. I screwed up by assuming that no negative responses to a straight up question were a green light and I was woefully wrong. I learned my lesson. But don't talk trash to me like you had some good answer I didn't respond to. You are no better than a troll right now.

Now does anyone have any good advice on how to drain the tank? I have been able to siphon it to about 50% but the anti-siphon device is now getting in the way of making much progress. Any good advice on this subject is greatly appreciated.

The tank is saddle shaped on the bottom for driveshaft clearance. You won't get all of the fuel out unless you open up both sides. To open up the top of the tank. You have to in behind the seats. Don't know if you want to do this or not.

Thinking of another way. Behind the right seat is the fuel pump. You might be able to disconnect the fuel line and put a hose on the end of the fitting. Once you do this. You can turn the key on, and let the fuel pump do the work.

Entitlement is real

Thanks. Great advice!

Great advice for sure Rusty! Worked like a charm. I am already empty. 45 mins vs 3 hours of manual pumping...You rock!

:tiphat:

So regarding injector sizing. I see lots of different sizes on injectors being referenced in this thread alone. Is there a right or wrong size to increase to from stock? If I were to change to 1000cc or 1500cc injectors would that cause a problem on pump gas (93)? Ultimately I would like to be able to run E85 for track days or performance and 93 for general driving. I have already been tuned on 93 for the setup I currently have, but I am about to install the Berk test pipes this weekend, which I assume will require additional tuning and so I would like to get 2 maps done when I have it retuned. That being said, I know I will need to go get some injectors then and I am trying to learn more about the appropriate sizing for now and possibly future expansion. Down the road I will eventually be installing Twin Turbos (Most likely the AAM kit from what Houston Z aka SZRPro is recommending) and want to make sure that I am not wasting my money now and have to purchase different injectors down the line. My apologies if I am showing my ignorance of the subject but I come from an older era where I worked on Chevy 350s and Holley carbs type setups...this is the first fuel injected car I have ever tried to work on.

Also what advantage does the lex fuel kit from SpecialtyZ give you if its not needed as was earlier suggested...Injectors and a tune on e85 if read correctly.

:facepalm: Hello pot; meet kettle.

I'm talking about the 2nd and 3rd responses in your thread, which I have quoted for you again below. You need E-85 fuel, upgraded injectors and a tune. There are also optional flex fuel solutions available. And yet, based on those responses, you decided to just put E-85 in your stock car, completely ignoring the need for the other necessary upgrades (i.e. a tune and injectors). What on earth made you think that would be ok??? :shakes head:

I think Facebook might be a better resource for you. I'm sure you can find someone to tell you you're doing it right regardless of the facts. Alternatively, you could reach out directly to ByThaBay since he is quite knowledgeable and obviously willing to help. The choice is yours. I recommend choosing wisely ;)

I would stay away from the AAM turbo kit. People on here have had issues with the kit. Where the turbo's are located at. They don't drain oil very well. Best bet would be going with either FI or BP turbo kits.

Rusty,

Your helpful information is really starting to infringe on my ability to troll. Please stop.

Warmest Regards from my insides,
JARkok

Just a couple notes, because there isn't a single 'correct' answer to your question here.

-On an NA car, you can run GT-R injectors for E85. That's your cheapest immediate option.
-On a boosted car, with 93 octane, you already need substantially larger injectors. I'm running 750cc @ ~500whp, using about 80% of capacity.
-If I were running E85, I'd need to increase size substantially, probably 1300s or 1700s.
-If that's where you're heading, you'll also need a bigger fuel pump or fuel pumps to provide appropriate flow.

You'll absolutely need a tune once you go to larger injectors. Trust me when I say that your car will not work with incorrect fuel scaling ;)

Edit: +1 on Rusty's comment about the AAM twin turbo kit. Do not go for that one. If you want twins, go Fast Intentions. If you'd consider a large twin scroll turbo, go BP.

Just because you're a hermaphrodite. Doesn't mean you have to swing your junk around. :nutswinger: :icon23:



:rofl2:

Thanks JLarson. That helped me understand better. Coming from a carburetor background the and jetting to specific requirements don't translate well to fuel injection. I also appreciate the feedback on the AAM kit Rusty. This helps in planning out which pumps, rails, injectors to get now so I can upgrade later to TT.

Get your fuel system parts from phunk at CJM. He's the go to guy. Two of the things you should get from him is the fuel pressure gauge and the top hat for the fuel pump.

I used to run around with a 572 CI Dart with a modded 1150 Holley on it. Going from carbs to fuel injection is a learning curve. You are now dealing with injector size, pulse width, dwell time, fuel pressure and a few other things. You are going from a wet flow to a dry flow on CFM too.

I suggest if members are not going to be helpful to stay out.

Thank You to those who are trying to be helpful. :tup:

Please keep the tech section on topic and not make it personal.

I would appreciate that. :tiphat:

Guess we're getting soft here, too. Let me try again.

"That was rather unwise.

Of course it didn't switch to an ethanol map, silly. The sensor is aftermarket only."

Specialty Z sales the flexfuel kit. Uprev does not support flexfuel, so you'll have to be tuned on ECUtek. And for the sake of your car, keep corn out of it until you have bigger injectors and it's tuned for it.

I spent some time over at SZR Pro today here in Houston talking with Dane and Brad about build plans and some of the conversations here. The did acknowledge that some people have had some oil return issues on the AAM twin turbo kit and believe they have worked out the issues. Dane is building a fresh motor with the aam stage 2 kit on it and explained some of the known issues being the left side turbo oil line comes default with a straight an fitting and being so close to the fender well, it often gets pinched or kinked. Additionally have the return lines enter the oil pan (wide Greddy I think) vertically instead of from the side helps alleviate pooling in the lines and lateral flow issues. Sound like they may have that kit dialed in well and given the lower price tag (compared to FI) it might still be a good option.

On the build details, here is the road I will begin traveling down:

1700cc injectors $1500
Specialty Z Flex Fuel Kit
AAM Fuel Rail Kit 1329.99
FI Fuel Return System 1045.00
FI or AAM Twin Turbo Kit
Catch can kit
ATI Super Damper
Walbro Dual Pumps
Greddy Profec Boost Controller

P.S. Whjaxn17 - I love how you just can't resist trolling and throwing in your useless 2cent comments. I already admitted I was new, I already admitted I was not knowledgable on ECU/Fuel Injected setups, I already admitted I screwed up buy jumping the gun, and I learned a lot from this experience. Unfortunately all I learned from you is that you don't have valuable input and I should ignore anything you say. Start acting mature and prove me wrong.

Don't get any fuel system parts from AAM. Their fuel system kits are having issues. There is a thread or 2 on the problems.

On the oiling issues on the AAM turbo kits. Some have installed an oil scavenging pump on the return line.

Any recommendations on rails/gauge then?

Phunk at CJM. He has complete fuel systems.