Nissan 370Z Forum
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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Engine & Drivetrain (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/)
-   -   New clutch time (http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivetrain/130880-new-clutch-time.html)

Spooler 05-28-2019 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3856167)
Ok, I'm home now, and not distracted. Last year at a trackday. Was talking to a couple of other drivers. The subject of aluminum flywheels come up. The consensus was that they are great for the track. For street use. There is more slipping of the clutch to get moving because of lack of inertia. You have to change your driving style for it. In stop and go traffic. This extra slipping has lead to deep heat spots on the friction ring. A couple guys said that it affected disk life and feel for the clutch. 3 said that they switched back to steel. The other 4 still running the aluminum. But these guys change the friction ring on a regular schedule. The one guy had a pic on his phone and the friction ring was a solid blue. To turn blue. That's about 650F to 750F.
Hmm, guess I drive different. I am on and off the clutch quick. I don't slip it much at all.

Rusty 05-28-2019 09:21 PM
1 Attachment(s)
:werd:

SPDKING 05-28-2019 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter (Post 3856148)

I'm guessing it was quite a while ago since there is not one complete clutch kit on Zspeeds page that does not have the v3 cmak. There is not one kit with the HDCSC. I know the first run of them had a few issues that had to be worked out but the v3 has more than proven itself to be the go to for relocation.


I have an email sent off to Joe. We'll see what he has to say. My money is on the cmak.
You buy them separately of course https://zspeed.com/product/zspeed-pe...-cylinder-csc/

https://conceptzperformance.com/jim-...ktb_p_2423.php

Or you could buy the clutch kit and HD CSC (or CMAK) at Concept Z and get reward cash since this is a big purchase. So you can get something else in the future with a few bucks off. And yes it has been awhile, and you know who's CSC hasn't failed after so long? This guy <<<

-ZS-Carpenter 05-29-2019 04:32 AM
Quote:
To: Bill


The z1 road race kit will not work with the cmak, it has a odd ball pressure plate and uses an altima stock rigid clutch disk (very loud rattle in every gear under 2500) and is 240mm. The clutch sets up way to high and will hit the fork on the cmak kit.

We do not make 14lb steel flys as the only way to make them that light is to take away the thickness behind the disk where it needs it most for heat dissipation and strength.

The super street kit has a really strong exedy "racing ultra fiber" disk (not stock organic) 250mm, and 2700lb pressure plate, fly is 17.4 lbs and the pressure plate is a few pounds light than the one in the z1 kit so it will about even out and you will have really good setup.
This kit is somewhat aggressive and very accurate.


Joe

So back to the Zspeed stage 3 kit maybe. It's roughly the same rotational mass as going with the Z1 kit. Or stay with the 14lb FW and pair it with Joes clutch for an even lighter combo. I'll have to drink this over for a day or 2.

Rusty, Since the Z1 FW is in your sights do you have any heat concerns. I know you'll run your car much longer and harder than I probably ever will.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 3855706)
I'm going with Joe's steel flywheel (thought it was 17 lbs, not 18 but w/e). He recommended it to me even when I asked for the lightest one possible. Not buying anything Z1 anymore, so their flywheel is out.
The page says 18 but Joe says 17.4. I was just going off their site but it is lighter than they advertise.

JARblue 05-29-2019 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPDKING (Post 3856023)
Yes but there has to be reason why they went back to that, they aren't Porsche where they are stubborn and won't change a design.
Umm... I would argue that the CSC and ESCL issues on the 370Z are excellent examples of Nissan being stubborn. Bottom line is a recall doesn't happen until the money says it's ok. I wonder how many people paid $1000+ for ESCL replacement before issuing the recall and then removing it altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter (Post 3856030)
And I'll say it again. The trans won't go back in the car with the hydraulics inside the bell housing. I don't care how great the HDCSC might be. If it fails the trans has to come out and there is a good chance it will ruin the clutch disk when it sprays brake fluid inside the bell housing when it goes. Until I smoke this clutch the trans is staying in the car.
Good call. That's why I went with the Z1 kit back in the day over the HDCSC from Joe. I probably ended up with more issues but I never had to drop the transmission again even when I was having to screw with the Z1 kit. New clutch is an opportunity to upgrade to the CMAK now :tup:

Rusty 05-29-2019 09:00 AM
I'm going to talk to Joe in October. I have some ideas that I want to discuss with him. Something along the lines of 14 to 17 flywheel, the TR series of OS Giken or a Tilton clutch, and his CMAK.

The idea behind the light weight flywheel is to reduce rotating mass. If you can do it with a combination of flywheel and pressure plate without losing strength and heat dissipation and still meet your goals is even better.

Spooler 05-29-2019 11:01 AM
This is the clutch I am running.

ATS Spec II Triple Plate Carbon Clutch Set - 370Z Z34 / G37 V37 / VQ37HR - Corner3 Motorsports

-ZS-Carpenter 05-29-2019 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3856337)
Really nice and way way out of budget

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-ZS-Carpenter 05-29-2019 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3856309)
I'm going to talk to Joe in October. I have some ideas that I want to discuss with him. Something along the lines of 14 to 17 flywheel, the TR series of OS Giken or a Tilton clutch, and his CMAK.



The idea behind the light weight flywheel is to reduce rotating mass. If you can do it with a combination of flywheel and pressure plate without losing strength and heat dissipation and still meet your goals is even better.
I'm going to toss the idea to Joe when I email him tonight and see what he has to say. Seems like he thinks the Z1 FW is too thin and guessing he will steer me tword the 17lb.

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JARblue 05-29-2019 12:52 PM
:iagree:

I mentioned both the Fidanza and Z1 options. He didn't recommend either one. He finally stopped selling the Fidanza one (hardware issues). And I'd already heard negative things on the Z1 (too thin). In the end he saved me a few bucks going with his 17lb one :tup:

Spooler 05-29-2019 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter (Post 3856355)
Really nice and way way out of budget

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How much are you going to spend on a clutch and CMAK together. This clutch kit comes with a CSC relocation kit. You don't need a triple or even a twin. A single would be more in your price range. MA sells them.


ATS Spec II Single Plate Carbon Clutch Set - 370Z Z34 / G37 V36 / VQ37VHR - Corner3 Motorsports

JARblue 05-29-2019 01:20 PM
Not really comparable. The ATS single is over $1000 more than the ZSpeed Stage 3 kit with CMAK I picked up. That ATS is :yum: though...

Spooler 05-29-2019 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 3856378)
Not really comparable. The ATS single is over $1000 more than the ZSpeed Stage 3 kit with CMAK I picked up. That ATS is :yum: though...
If I was staying NA I would probably just use what Joe recommended. He has always had great support on here. I didn't know that you could get in with everything for that price. That is not bad at all.

Rusty 05-29-2019 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3856376)
How much are you going to spend on a clutch and CMAK together. This clutch kit comes with a CSC relocation kit. You don't need a triple or even a twin. A single would be more in your price range. MA sells them.


ATS Spec II Single Plate Carbon Clutch Set - 370Z Z34 / G37 V36 / VQ37VHR - Corner3 Motorsports
What's funny. I click on the link with my laptop. It goes to the Single plate clutch. I use my phone. It goes to the Triple plate clutch. :icon14:

-ZS-Carpenter 05-29-2019 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3856380)
If I was staying NA I would probably just use what Joe recommended. He has always had great support on here. I didn't know that you could get in with everything for that price. That is not bad at all.
Joes stage 3 kit with cmak, cmc, FW, clutch is 1550. Another 300 for the pedal, 200~ for the mount and fuid and a couple hundred on misc tools and equipment. Should be all in between 2200-2300

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Rusty 05-29-2019 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3856376)
How much are you going to spend on a clutch and CMAK together. This clutch kit comes with a CSC relocation kit. You don't need a triple or even a twin. A single would be more in your price range. MA sells them.


ATS Spec II Single Plate Carbon Clutch Set - 370Z Z34 / G37 V36 / VQ37VHR - Corner3 Motorsports
Total rotating weight is 40 lbs. Hmmmmm

Spooler 05-29-2019 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3856452)
Total rotating weight is 40 lbs. Hmmmmm
You can only get a twin or a triple with the lightweight flywheel. Single is only one option.

Rusty 05-29-2019 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3856476)
You can only get a twin or a triple with the lightweight flywheel. Single is only one option.
It said 40 lbs with either the dual or triple. :confused:

Seen you link about the flywheel weight. :tup:

jchammond 05-29-2019 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3856448)
What's funny. I click on the link with my laptop. It goes to the Single plate clutch. I use my phone. It goes to the Triple plate clutch. :icon14:
You know we all have to try it; phone goes to single ATS Spec 2 & so does iPad :ugh2:
Price is same on both; from 479.50-604.50 :wtf2:

Rusty 05-29-2019 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3856337)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3856376)
How much are you going to spend on a clutch and CMAK together. This clutch kit comes with a CSC relocation kit. You don't need a triple or even a twin. A single would be more in your price range. MA sells them.


ATS Spec II Single Plate Carbon Clutch Set - 370Z Z34 / G37 V36 / VQ37VHR - Corner3 Motorsports
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3856448)
What's funny. I click on the link with my laptop. It goes to the Single plate clutch. I use my phone. It goes to the Triple plate clutch. :icon14:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchammond (Post 3856499)
You know we all have to try it; phone goes to single ATS Spec 2 & so does iPad :ugh2:
Price is same on both; from 479.50-604.50 :wtf2:
:facepalm:

Spooler posted the triple when I was at work and I was using my phone. Then he posted the single when I was coming home. When I got home. I use my laptop and didn't realize he had posted the single because I read from where I had left off. :icon14:

-ZS-Carpenter 05-31-2019 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3854333)
Stick with the Bronze pilot bushings. The Torrington styles just don't last and are a complete pain in the butt to get back out. Ask me how I know. You will need new flywheel bolts, they are Torque to Yield bolts. One use only.
Joe says the bolts are not torque to yield. He says as long as they haven't been over torqued they are fine to reuse.

I'm going to replace all of them anyway. I got the car at 30k something miles so idk if it's been apart before or not. No point in taking a chance on $100 worth of bolts.

Would the motor mounts be more accessible with the trans out? Wouldn't mind having all 3 mounts done at the same time.

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BettyZ 05-31-2019 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter (Post 3856994)
Joe says the bolts are not torque to yield. He says as long as they haven't been over torqued they are fine to reuse.

I'm going to replace all of them anyway. I got the car at 30k something miles so idk if it's been apart before or not. No point in taking a chance on $100 worth of bolts.

Would the motor mounts be more accessible with the trans out? Wouldn't mind having all 3 mounts done at the same time.

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I managed to install Z1 motor mounts without taking anything off the Z except the stock mounts. Its tricky but doable. Happy to help.

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-ZS-Carpenter 05-31-2019 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BettyZ (Post 3856995)
I managed to install Z1 motor mounts without taking anything off the Z except the stock mounts. Its tricky but doable. Happy to help.

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I didn't really look at the too close but the passenger side looked like it would be simple once the trans is out. I need to take a closer look when I get back under it.

I need to track down a high lift floor jack. I think I need another 4-6" to roll the trans out on the jack. I'm as high as I can go with my 3.5 ton napa floor jack but got plenty of jack stand left. I picked up a set of Esco stands over the winter for this as it was planned for next winter. They are way better than the ratchet type I was using. Car is solid sitting on them and I have 8 or 10" higher I can go.

How do you like the Z1 mounts? I had planned on getting them but might get torque solution from Joe.

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-ZS-Carpenter 05-31-2019 05:50 PM
rjm pedal has shipped!

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JARblue 05-31-2019 08:17 PM
I encountered the same issue when I dropped the transmission a while back. Jack was limiting factor on the lift - stands had plenty of room. Since I was only doing the Z1 CSCEK I was able to just slide the trans back down the tunnel a bit for enough room to work. I have decided I'll get another jack so I can remove it completely when I do the full clutch replacement.

I got the Torque Solution from Joe for transmission mount and CJM engine mounts. TBD on the engine mount install. I'll have enough stuff out like you I think I might be able to do with with just a hoist. But I'm planning to have a shop tear open the engine anyway for galley gaskets and oil pump gears, so I'm thinking it may be easiest to do them then.

-ZS-Carpenter 05-31-2019 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JARblue (Post 3857038)
I encountered the same issue when I dropped the transmission a while back. Jack was limiting factor on the lift - stands had plenty of room. Since I was only doing the Z1 CSCEK I was able to just slide the trans back down the tunnel a bit for enough room to work. I have decided I'll get another jack so I can remove it completely when I do the full clutch replacement.

I got the Torque Solution from Joe for transmission mount and CJM engine mounts. TBD on the engine mount install. I'll have enough stuff out like you I think I might be able to do with with just a hoist. But I'm planning to have a shop tear open the engine anyway for galley gaskets and oil pump gears, so I'm thinking it may be easiest to do them then.
I have a 5" jack extension on the way. I think it will be just enough. If not I think i can lower the rear of the car and pivot the front up another couple inches. Might be just enough to sneak it out.

I'm still chatting with Joe via email. In the middle of engine mount chat now. The Torque Solutions trans mount is on sale, $30 less than the Z1 and I can probably get most of it shipped together.

jchammond 05-31-2019 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter (Post 3857000)
I didn't really look at the too close but the passenger side looked like it would be simple once the trans is out. I need to take a closer look when I get back under it.

I need to track down a high lift floor jack. I think I need another 4-6" to roll the trans out on the jack. I'm as high as I can go with my 3.5 ton napa floor jack but got plenty of jack stand left. I picked up a set of Esco stands over the winter for this as it was planned for next winter. They are way better than the ratchet type I was using. Car is solid sitting on them and I have 8 or 10" higher I can go.

How do you like the Z1 mounts? I had planned on getting them but might get torque solution from Joe.

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:pics:

jchammond 05-31-2019 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter (Post 3857048)
I have a 5" jack extension on the way. I think it will be just enough. If not I think i can lower the rear of the car and pivot the front up another couple inches. Might be just enough to sneak it out.

I'm still chatting with Joe via email. In the middle of engine mount chat now. The Torque Solutions trans mount is on sale, $30 less than the Z1 and I can probably get most of it shipped together.
What are you jacking off of? :wtf2:

jchammond 05-31-2019 10:14 PM
I mean position of jack to contact point? :ugh2:

BettyZ 06-01-2019 01:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter (Post 3857000)
I didn't really look at the too close but the passenger side looked like it would be simple once the trans is out. I need to take a closer look when I get back under it.

I need to track down a high lift floor jack. I think I need another 4-6" to roll the trans out on the jack. I'm as high as I can go with my 3.5 ton napa floor jack but got plenty of jack stand left. I picked up a set of Esco stands over the winter for this as it was planned for next winter. They are way better than the ratchet type I was using. Car is solid sitting on them and I have 8 or 10" higher I can go.

How do you like the Z1 mounts? I had planned on getting them but might get torque solution from Joe.

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Passenger side does look and is easier, but is deceptive. Bought a set of crow's feet to remove the driver's side nut, decided to use them to torque both new nuts down, ended up getting the crow foot wedged against the passenger side motor part of the mount. Dont remember exactly how I got it off but I know it involved my sister's non man-sized hands and a magnet. To swap mounts I used a floor jack on the front lift point to very, very delicately lift the motor off the stock mounts. There's a DIY on the forum that I followed.

I felt a rather substantial difference with the Z1 urethane mounts; I'm a big fan.

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-ZS-Carpenter 06-01-2019 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchammond (Post 3857086)
I mean position of jack to contact point? :ugh2:
to lift the car or to lift the engine if i do the mounts? for the car I'm just using the diff in the rear and that plate with the bump right behind the undertray. That tray is off the car right now but it's only 6 or 8 bolts to slap it back on.

I'll get more pics of the mounts this weekend.

jchammond 06-01-2019 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -ZS-Carpenter (Post 3857107)
to lift the car or to lift the engine if i do the mounts? for the car I'm just using the diff in the rear and that plate with the bump right behind the undertray. That tray is off the car right now but it's only 6 or 8 bolts to slap it back on.

I'll get more pics of the mounts this weekend.
I know in the rear; I’d always go to that point where the 3bolts & arms come together....just behind diff.
I have a special cut block that would fit right between FI exhaust & really worked well....about the the same spot up front.
Seems there was a dimple or slightly bulged place right near the center I used :ugh2:

-ZS-Carpenter 06-01-2019 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchammond (Post 3857111)
I know in the rear; I’d always go to that point where the 3bolts & arms come together....just behind diff.

I have a special cut block that would fit right between FI exhaust & really worked well....about the the same spot up front.

Seems there was a dimple or slightly bulged place right near the center I used :ugh2:
Yea. There is a bump on the plate right behind the front splash shield. I have some low profile ramps I need to get the jack to it. Neither car is high enough to get my jack under the front without them.

I have that plate out right now but it's only 6 or 8 bolts. The extension post I ordered for the floor jack won't be here for a couple weeks so in going to snag a couple chunks of 4x4 off the job site and see if I can raise it enough with that. From what I'm seeing I need about 30" or so to roll the trans out on my jack and only have 24 ish right now

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Rusty 06-01-2019 07:16 AM
The Z is one of the cars that I have the most displeasure of jacking up. :shakes head:

BettyZ 06-01-2019 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3857120)
The Z is one of the cars that I have the most displeasure of jacking up. :shakes head:
Buy a QuickJack! Best. Investment. Ever.

Rusty 06-01-2019 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BettyZ (Post 3857157)
Buy a QuickJack! Best. Investment. Ever.
How many inches does it raise?

Spooler 06-01-2019 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BettyZ (Post 3857157)
Buy a QuickJack! Best. Investment. Ever.
Buy a 2 post lift. Forget wallering around on the floor.

-ZS-Carpenter 06-01-2019 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3857210)
Buy a 2 post lift. Forget wallering around on the floor.
I do that every night in my dreams.

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BettyZ 06-01-2019 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 3857204)
How many inches does it raise?
21.3 inches with the pinch weld blocks on top of the short urethane blocks. Fully collapsed they're 3 inches tall so you should be able to store them under the Z.

Costco/Home Depot regularly have sales, I bought mine from Costco for 900ish. Honestly the best $900 I've ever spent.

https://www.quickjack.com/car-lift-s...-car-lift.html

BettyZ 06-01-2019 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler (Post 3857210)
Buy a 2 post lift. Forget wallering around on the floor.
Man, that floor is like my second bed. The concrete does wonders for my back, too.


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