Engine ping under light throttle

nis350 · 02-22-2017, 05:58 PM

I don't have a scanner. It is my wife's DD and the ping started around 60k miles under condition described on the first post. It occurs intermittently and can't be reproduce at will (unfortunately).

Carbon build up was my first guess. We ran through many different kind of fuel cleaners but didn't really help much. However, it may not be the cause since it doesn't occur under load.

As for exhaust leaks, should be noticeable at idle during the cold start? Engine idles smooth and quiet under all condition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhill

First question. how many miles on the car (carbon build up)? Do you have access to a scanner with data access to see knock counts? Are you sure it is knock and not something else like an exhaust leak, not common on this car from what I've read but have had some pin hole exhaust leak that can sound like pinging under part throttle load.

Jhill · 02-23-2017, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nis350

I don't have a scanner. It is my wife's DD and the ping started around 60k miles under condition described on the first post. It occurs intermittently and can't be reproduce at will (unfortunately).

Carbon build up was my first guess. We ran through many different kind of fuel cleaners but didn't really help much. However, it may not be the cause since it doesn't occur under load.

As for exhaust leaks, should be noticeable at idle during the cold start? Engine idles smooth and quiet under all condition.

Usually if it pings it tends to be part throttle load right at tip in for most cars and will go away as soon as the load is less and ign correction occurs. I see you live in socal so you are warmer climate and 91 octane. I have been told the z is actually designed for 93 octane and they do have a constant ign correction with 91. I never heard any ping with mine in oem tune but you live right by one of the best tuners, may consider going to him (Seb) for a custom tune as they actually take out some of the ign advance for 91, if it really bugs you. Otherwise it is most likely doing as designed, going to the limit and then backing off when it detects knock. It's hard to say without being there and hearing it.

nis350 · 02-24-2017, 12:31 AM

that sounds logical. It probably got worse with some carbon build up due to higher mileage. Fortunately, it only occurs during initial take off rather than pinging at higher rpm/speed.

Curious if it would cause engine damage with the 'as designed' ping in our situation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhill

Usually if it pings it tends to be part throttle load right at tip in for most cars and will go away as soon as the load is less and ign correction occurs. I see you live in socal so you are warmer climate and 91 octane. I have been told the z is actually designed for 93 octane and they do have a constant ign correction with 91. I never heard any ping with mine in oem tune but you live right by one of the best tuners, may consider going to him (Seb) for a custom tune as they actually take out some of the ign advance for 91, if it really bugs you. Otherwise it is most likely doing as designed, going to the limit and then backing off when it detects knock. It's hard to say without being there and hearing it.

Jhill · 02-24-2017, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nis350

that sounds logical. It probably got worse with some carbon build up due to higher mileage. Fortunately, it only occurs during initial take off rather than pinging at higher rpm/speed.

Curious if it would cause engine damage with the 'as designed' ping in our situation?

This is what I meant when I said most cars I have worked with (so that's not the z as I only have my own for comparison) but if they ping it is right at throttle tip in from cruise and is momentary. Typically this is in a part of the map with high ignition timing as they want good throttle response and max torque since you are trying to accelerate. Not every car does it even within the same type of car and climate and fuel quality play a roll (acura MDX were fairly picky since they are also heavy and use high comp ratio as well). As for long term damage, not being able to hear if yours is a light ping that instantly gets corrected or if it's bad knock and not correcting would make a big difference, the first one I personally have not seen one fail catastrophically by light ping that gets corrected quickly.

Again if you really want it gone I would go to Seb and he will actually tune it for 91 octane with two ign maps one for summer and one for winter (hot climate/cold climate).

nis350 · 02-24-2017, 10:22 PM

great explanation. it is a quick metallic ping. it goes away as soon as she lift the throttle and re-accelerate fine within a second or two and runs well from there at any speed.

Again, the engine is quieter and smoother than my newer/lower mileage Z. And the exhaust also sounds much better, but that's a different discussion

Our main concern is the long term effect of this issue. The ping normally last just 1 to 2 seconds at 1500 rpm or less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhill

This is what I meant when I said most cars I have worked with (so that's not the z as I only have my own for comparison) but if they ping it is right at throttle tip in from cruise and is momentary. Typically this is in a part of the map with high ignition timing as they want good throttle response and max torque since you are trying to accelerate. Not every car does it even within the same type of car and climate and fuel quality play a roll (acura MDX were fairly picky since they are also heavy and use high comp ratio as well). As for long term damage, not being able to hear if yours is a light ping that instantly gets corrected or if it's bad knock and not correcting would make a big difference, the first one I personally have not seen one fail catastrophically by light ping that gets corrected quickly.

Again if you really want it gone I would go to Seb and he will actually tune it for 91 octane with two ign maps one for summer and one for winter (hot climate/cold climate).

Jhill · 02-25-2017, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nis350

great explanation. it is a quick metallic ping. it goes away as soon as she lift the throttle and re-accelerate fine within a second or two and runs well from there at any speed.

Again, the engine is quieter and smoother than my newer/lower mileage Z. And the exhaust also sounds much better, but that's a different discussion

Our main concern is the long term effect of this issue. The ping normally last just 1 to 2 seconds at 1500 rpm or less.

Also may want to go to dealer and see if you pcm has the latest flash. It's not super common for the Japanese lines I have worked on to do a lot of re flashing like the German and GM to fix issues but there have been some and it doesn't hurt to ensure your running latest software.

nis350 · 02-28-2017, 12:10 AM

were there any pcm flashes available in the last few years for our motor?

we took the car in for transmission fluid change in 2015 and they didn't mention anything outstanding for the car. do the dealers only offer them for cars under warranty?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhill

Also may want to go to dealer and see if you pcm has the latest flash. It's not super common for the Japanese lines I have worked on to do a lot of re flashing like the German and GM to fix issues but there have been some and it doesn't hurt to ensure your running latest software.

Optimiser · 02-25-2017, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhill

This is what I meant when I said most cars I have worked with (so that's not the z as I only have my own for comparison) but if they ping it is right at throttle tip in from cruise and is momentary. Typically this is in a part of the map with high ignition timing as they want good throttle response and max torque since you are trying to accelerate. Not every car does it even within the same type of car and climate and fuel quality play a roll (acura MDX were fairly picky since they are also heavy and use high comp ratio as well). As for long term damage, not being able to hear if yours is a light ping that instantly gets corrected or if it's bad knock and not correcting would make a big difference, the first one I personally have not seen one fail catastrophically by light ping that gets corrected quickly.

Again if you really want it gone I would go to Seb and he will actually tune it for 91 octane with two ign maps one for summer and one for winter (hot climate/cold climate).

I also experience this condition when everything has warmed up, exactly as described, taking off from a stop where I have been just sitting in traffic idling for a bit. I always wondered what it was and it was never tuned out, or couldn't be tuned out.

PaulNYz · 02-27-2017, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimiser

I also experience this condition when everything has warmed up, exactly as described, taking off from a stop where I have been just sitting in traffic idling for a bit. I always wondered what it was and it was never tuned out, or couldn't be tuned out.

Have you ever had any issues from it?

Optimiser · 02-27-2017, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulNYz

Have you ever had any issues from it?

No I have not.

nis350 · 02-28-2017, 12:13 AM

at what mileage did this condition start?

our car started around 60k miles.... it was fine before that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimiser

I also experience this condition when everything has warmed up, exactly as described, taking off from a stop where I have been just sitting in traffic idling for a bit. I always wondered what it was and it was never tuned out, or couldn't be tuned out.

PaulNYz · 03-03-2017, 04:04 PM

After putting in a tank of 93 (about 4.5 gallons of 91 left in the tank), I no longer here any pinging after about 50 miles. I assume the ECU had to adjust or something.

Optimiser · 03-03-2017, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nis350

at what mileage did this condition start?

our car started around 60k miles.... it was fine before that.

As long as I can remember. Both when NA and now boosted.

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03-03-2017, 04:04 PM	#12 (permalink)
PaulNYz Base Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 124 Drives: 12 sport 6MT Rep Power: 10	After putting in a tank of 93 (about 4.5 gallons of 91 left in the tank), I no longer here any pinging after about 50 miles. I assume the ECU had to adjust or something.