Nissan 370Z Forum - Jim Wolf Cam testing for the VQ37VHR -- Results inside!

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MA, can you comment on the G37 that gained like 60+ wheel hp? I saw the post on Facebook but I'd like more information. I understand the changes were Motordyne headers, C2 cams and I'm assuming a tune.

I don't know what dyno you're using but noticed the baseline numbers were like 220 something. Just wondering if you could elaborate further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Factory (Post 3688911)

They use a Dynamics dyno... go to post 278 in this thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Factory (Post 3688911)

It was 225-230 for base dyno with only gen2 stillen intakes. After c2cams, gen3 stillen upgrade kit, Motordyne lth, hks exhaust, ecutek tune it made like 297 so roughly 70 whp. I only have the paper Dyno, but they should have a PDF of it.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

Is this your car? With the Motordyne LTH's, test pipes I'm assuming?

Wanted to check back in on this thread now that the car has been on the track for a few sessions. I was sharing the car with a friend in beginner so the car go some major abuse over three days at Gridlife South.

My first impression was of how much more usable power the car makes. I am shifting much less at Road Atlanta with no FD change and an increase in aero loads. I have all but stopped using 3rd gear when I have a clean track. The one exception is T7. With a couple good runs through T6 and T7 I was able to consistently reach a top speed of 155 mph at around the 300 foot marker going into T10A. There was another 370 running a different group saying he was only able to get to around 130 at the same point so there's definitely a significant increase in usable power. Still hoping to go to Z1 sooner than later and put it on their dyno for NASA classification purposes as I don't have a dyno locally to me that has ever had a Z car on it.

On a side note, the sucker punch oil pump handles many runs up to 7900 RPM without issue. I was not able to get my pressure gauge in the car before the event but I have another track weekend in September and I hope to have my gauges in by then after I sort out some heat related issues with the rear brakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derraj06 (Post 3689019)

Holy **** you hit 155 on the back stretch. Wow. Yeah I only manage to break little over 130. With a slipping clutch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ape Factory (Post 3688911)

Hey,

What Chris posted above is spot on, the car came to us nearly stock with Stillen Gen2 intakes.

We added:
C2 cams
Gen 3 intake conversion
Motordyne LTH
HKS Hi-Power Exhaust
MA-Motorsports tune using ECUtek

Baseline was 229hp when it came here, left with 297

Car was a 2010 G37 7spd Auto

http://www.ma-motorsports.com/wp-con...4035900506.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAMotorsports (Post 3689116)

Thanks for the digital Dyno printout. I've got a few ideas for the future for the car, I will give you a call soon to update you on the car and discuss future plans for the car.

Thanks again

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

Question for MAMotorsports does the C2 cam make power past the 8k mark?
or have you not taking any car past that point yet

Valve float issues on the intake side

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckie311 (Post 3689445)

Question for MAMotorsports does the C2 cam make power past the 8k mark?
or have you not taking any car past that point yet

Based on the results of my car it is likely the cams themselves can continue to make power past 8k. Unfortunately, there are multiple issues in the VVEL system that need to be taken care of first before you can safely rev the heads past 7900 RPM. The rod bolts also become suspect above 8000 RPM so it is best not to spin one that high.

That said, I am working on getting the parts needed to safely increase the rev limit but the parts for the VVEL system do not exist at the moment. MA and JWT are working on this now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derraj06 (Post 3689940)

1slow use BMW m5 rod bolts to rev to 8,200. Don't know how reliable it is at that range but the car is still on the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derraj06 (Post 3689940)

hopefully they will have something by next year..i was planning on doing this in April or May..but i will delay if needed.
thanks for the info..hopefully Daelen from MA can comment on when they think they might have the parts available

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z (Post 3689966)

1slow use BMW m5 rod bolts to rev to 8,200. Don't know how reliable it is at that range but the car is still on the road.

Thee are nissan rod bolts available that will do the job from what I have researched. That's no issue. I'm just not going to rebuild my bottom end until we can continue the work in the heads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckie311 (Post 3689977)

As of before Daelen left for vacation there is no current ETA on those parts. I check in on that probably more often than I should lol. There will also be a little bit of a learning curve and experimentation as to if one part will fix more than one issue or if it will require something else.

As far as I have found and they have told me, no one has rev'd these heads over 8k safely for any length of time. Will be fun new territory when the parts required change sorted out.

IPP is in Houston. Sooooo work is stopped on my rebuild awaiting parts. . I was sooooo close to putting my track rat back together. Ug.

I'll be on the dyno Tuesday.

Edit: First start on new motor hit a few glitches(now fixed). Dyno tune coming soon.

IPP did not know about the V2 cams so I am running v1... (we miscommunicated a bit on that)

I will not be pulling the motor to drop in V2 anytime soon. lol

I think for my street ride V1 will just have to do.

Oh well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog (Post 3698978)

Dammit! Did they indicate moving to the V2 at all? I'm going for an IPP Stage 2 longblock here in the next couple months and I was counting on them having the upgraded cams by then. Either way I'm interested in your Dyno because I'm just wanting to touch on 700 E85 or 650+ on pump gas. If I can get the 650 on pump I'll be done and move the focus to suspension and rear diff.

:ughdance:Just take it to MaMotorsports

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog (Post 3698978)

I don't blame you for not wanting to swap cams. That's a lot of work on this motor. :icon14:

They will have C2 cams next year. Right now they are exclusive to ATI. Do the group buy and send them to IPP maybe?

IPP did not know about them until I spoke with them today.

In 4 updates. Very interested in increasing the redline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by longlivethez (Post 3699325)

In 4 updates. Very interested in increasing the redline.

With the addition of a quality oil pump (Sucker punch or a few others) the C2 cams, and a good tune you can go to 7900rpm for a very long time with no issues.

Going above that, you are building an engine. For most people, getting a few hundred more RPM will not be worth that cost.

Jim Wolf Cam testing for the VQ37VHR -- Results inside!

Before rebuild and after with JWT V1 cams
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6327cb2345.jpg

17 hp
7.6 torque

That is pretty darn stout!

Great work!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog (Post 3701210)

Before rebuild and after with JWT V1 cams
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6327cb2345.jpg

17 hp
7.6 torque

Those are the numbers at 9000 feet? Nice. At sea level that's a lot bigger number.

Jim Wolf Cam testing for the VQ37VHR -- Results inside!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 3701261)

Those are the numbers at 9000 feet? Nice. At sea level that's a lot bigger number.

Well... Parker Colorado so 5500 feet but still.

I figure 20-25 hp loss from sea level.

Isn’t it pre-corrected? The chart says SAE 1.23...

What tune is on it?

The correection factor takes care of the elevation and weather if the dyno calibration and set up is done correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG4247 (Post 3701465)

What tune is on it?

The correction factor takes care of the elevation and weather if the dyno calibration and set up is done correctly.

I'm no dyno expert. It could be altitude corrected, I wouldn't know. If it is, I'm about 20 hp shy of what I would expect based on my build.

Either way, the motor "feels" strong and is pulling *very* well compared to other vq37s according to the tuner. The number on the graph is usually considered less important than the move from baseline which was about as expected from the rebuild so I'm happy with the results.:happydance:

See that 24.62 inHg? That is very low atmospheric pressure due to local elevation. The lower the pressure the higher the elevation. So, the correction factor increases your results to correct your numbers to std.

Here in OK at 1250 ft elevation, pressure runs between 28.5 to 29.5 in Hg.

Std pressure (sea level) is 29.92 inHg, so you were definately in some "thin" air!

Standard day is 29.92 and 15 decrees C.

Jim Wolf Cam testing for the VQ37VHR -- Results inside!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z (Post 3699008)

:ughdance:Just take it to MaMotorsports

Why did you go with IPP anyway. Everything I have read in my research is their stuff is not that good.

Jim Wolf Cam testing for the VQ37VHR -- Results inside!

Great question. I have heard good things about the shop, and this story is still not over. I”m hoping IPP will make this right. I’ll let you all know how it shakes out. I hope to hear back soon about what their idea for the next step in getting me up and running is. Pulling the heads and shipping them back is probably not a viable option just due to labor costs. I will probably have to have the lash redone locally.

I understand stuff happens, and I think they are good guys down there. It will be interesting to see how well they stand behind there work. Like I said I’m reserving judgment. They may yet come through and make this right.

It has been quite a voyage so far trying to put my blown Motor back together.

Lets talk about this

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog (Post 3714360)

I have to concur. IPP has been a bit of a disappointment. I installed their heads and reinstalled my complete rebuild only to discover their valve lash is out of spec, and my motor is pretty loud (and self destructive) up there. My go to guy at the Nissan dealer is telling me me I need to relash the heads. (15 hours labor).

Z1 agrees.
My local speed shop guy concurs.
IPP is mulling it over.

*** I am not mulling it over. I have held your installers hand through this whole process. They obviously aren't real experienced working on these heads(more on that later). ***

So... it looks like I might be dropping in the V2 cam after all (considering I have to rebuild the head anyway)

That’s not good.

Anyhow IPP may usually pretty good, but...
1. It took them months to get my head back (understandably due to Houston flooding) still...

*** Yes it took longer then expected after the devastation of Harvey and I did keep you up to date and apologized profusely for the delays. Plus the fact that we had to find a set of heads for you instead of using your heads. ***

2. They did not know about the V2 cam and when I asked them about it were a bit evasive. (I would definitely gone to MA had I known IPP was clueless about the new cam. I directly asked IPP if they were purltting in the new JWT second generation cam and they said they were.

*** That was the problem. You keep calling them the *V2* cams which usually means Version 2 and I told you I get the cams directly from JWT, so they would be the newest version. The *C2* cams are NOT a new version, they are a completely different cam. The *C2* cam is not available from anyone except MA until next year as they have the exclusive since they were the ones who tested them for JWT. So next year JWT and everyone else will be selling the C1 and C2 cams. There is no such thing as a V2 cam. ***

3. When I complained about a loud head and sent them a video clip with the pretty bad cam knock, they initially said “that can’t be our head!” Well it was.

*** No. I actually have been working with your shop to determine what the noise is and where it is coming from. They have told me that your original motor completely locked up and they reused your VVEL actuator sub assembly. Which in the service manual; Nissan says not to:

"VVEL actuator sub assembly and VVEL control shaft position sensor are nonreusable. Never remove them unless they are required."

So there is a strong possibility that the sub assembly may be bad and causing issues. ***

4. They did not accept my “cores” which were fine, and charged me for new ones. That seemed a bit fishy. They said I over disassembled the heads for shipping? Maybe that is a thing but it seemed strange

*** This is where I have a problem with your installers. They sent me your heads *COMPLETELY* disassembled.

Here is a quote from the Nissan service manual:

"CAUTION:
Never loosen adjusting bolts (A) and mounting bolts (black color) (B) of VVEL ladder assembly. If loosened, the stroke of cam lift becomes out of adjustment. In such case, replacement of VVEL ladder assembly and cylinder head assembly is required.
NOTE:
VVEL ladder assembly cannot be replaced as a single part, because it is machined together with cylinder
head assembly."

Your heads had the VVEL ladder assembly completely disassembled which makes them completely useless now. I can provide pictures if needed.

It scares me that your installers don't follow the Nissan service manual. ***

5. IPP asked me to check my chain followers they were fine. IPP asked me to check the VVEL (cam phasers), they were fine (checked by dealer). Now they are asking me to check the lash, and I am but they are very obviously out. All this is costing time and money. I think IPP is in denial a bit.

*** Since your original heads were completely disassembled against the service manuals instructions and your VVEL actuator sub assembly and VVEL control shaft position sensor were reused off of a motor that was completely destroyed; I am trying to find out if it is an issue with something we did or an install error. Since so many errors were made already through your installers. ***

I am reserving judgment on IPP depending on how they offer to remedy the complete mess they have made of my heads, and I understand any shop can goof it up, but I’ve had a very substandard experience so far and my Z is still out of action 4 months later (awaiting a rebuild of those goofed up IPP heads.)

*** And I am waiting to find out what the real issue is with your heads and/or install. If your heads have a valve lash issue, it will be the first case in over 550 motors/heads we have built since 2006. Not to say that a mistake could not have been made by my head guys but I do have some major issues with the way your installers have done things. I will continue to work with you and your installers to get to the root cause of the noise. ***

...and I’m probably going to have to repurchase JWT cams to run the V2... and a reflash... and a retune... not the end of the world, but an expensive bummer. 3000 bucks to fix all this I’d guess.

*** If you are going to replace your cams; you would be getting the *C2* cams. There is no such thing as a V2 JWT cam. ***

I’m not a big complainer usually, but this has been pretty rough.