First wash a DISASTER. Please help...
 

I got my red Z almost two weeks ago. It's used, but with only 5000k on the clock, barely driven.

Having taken it to LA and back last weekend it picked up a layer of dust and insect guts so I decided to give it a wash. This is the first car I've had that I REALLY wanted to take care of the paint so I did some reading. From various posts on the forum I learned of the two-bucket method, and got a sense that Meguiars' stuff was pretty good, so I went out and grabbed a load of products. Here's what I got:

http://www.the370z.com/members/super...irst-clean.jpg

I tried to follow the best procedure possible:

1) Rinsed with hose.

2) Two bucket method to suds up the whole car using one of those microfiber towels (it says drying towel on the pack but I was told it'll do the same job).

3) Thorough rinse.

4) Dry with chamois cloth using Quik Detail spray as I go.

5) I WAS going to wax but drying was where I ran into problems. It's so f**king streaky. And the swirls that were already there now stand out more. I think maybe it's either the chamois or the detail spray, but all I know is my car looks worse now that before I started...

http://www.the370z.com/members/super...e28615-wtf.jpg

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Please gimme some tips peeps. I'm really worried about this. I really don't want to wear out the red paint, which I hear is really soft. I just want to get it looking real nice. I want to get out most of the swirls (without using anything too abrasive) and get a good shiny wax coat on it.

Which of the stuff in the pic above should I throw out and replace? What, if anything, am I doing wrong, and will ordering a bunch of Adams cleaners/cloths solve all my issues? Anyone recommend a specific kit? (Nothing over $150, if possible).

DO NOT use the chamois with a quick detailer—its sole purpose is to dry only!

A new chamois always leave a residue after its first use; after several uses the chamois will absorb more and leave less to no residue. Also, never lay your microfiber towels down on something you walk over as they will attract debris that will embed in the microfibers and can scratch your car.

You should really use a clay bar prior to waxing, and the detailer spray between washes and for bird dropping after you've waxed.

Red cars are like black cars = a lot work to keep detailed, but worth it.

Spray some of the detail spray on a small area, use a clean microfiber to wipe it down, once it starts drying, flip the towel and wipe clean.


http://www.the370z.com/detailing-was...tials-kit.html

So the cloths I have are okay? Like it's cool to wash with those towels?

And RE drying, if you just dry with the chamois, then do I even need the detail spray? The videos I watched said it'd help make drying easier with less streaks. Or should I dry with a microfiber towel instead so I can use the spray?

Thanks for the link, Han. I'll need to get on that I guess (just spent $100 on the Meg's stuff, dammit!). :mad:

Could be a few things potentially.

Genuine chamois are impregnated with fish oils, as such they should be soaked in a bowl of warm water for about an hour before it ever gets used on paint.

Also a chamois is not designed to work with detail spray drying agent method... for that you should have gotten yourself a waffle weave microfiber towel.

Here's the best video that I can recommend for washing vehicles. I do not believe this person is in business any longer, but I do believe that even Dylan will agree with me on his methods (sorry, it's a Google video so you have to go to the link):

How to Wash Your Car (ShowCar style!)

If I could avoid it I woudlnt use a chamois. Any time you touch your car your going to scratch it. Any item that is flat will be easier to scratch I suspect. Like a detail cloth vs a chamois at least the cloth is soft and can pick dirt inside of it and less likely to scratch vs a chamois is just gonna rub stuff on your paint.

I could be wrong but I wouldn't use it.

I would either invest in a cheap walmart leaf blower OR Junkmans sheeting technique and a large towel like you use after a shower to clean up any thing else.

The spray is for after the car is dry. Your Meg's stuff is fine go ahead and use it!

Keep it simple. Dry with a waffle weave and finish of with a microfiber cloth and detail spray. The chamois has never worked right for me and is pretty much a waste of money. The megs quick detailer is ok, but the Adams stuff is one of the better ones i've come across. Also, you'll probably say it's clean, but never let rags that touch the floor touch your paint.

Thanks guys, I'll take all of your tips and give it another go tomorrow morning.

Few more questions:

1) Once dry, do I use the detail spray before waxing, or use a specific polishing product?
2) How often do you polish and wax? I see good waxes last six months. So do I just was twice a year, washing over it otherwise?
3) Do I re-polish over wax every time I wash, or do I only polish when waxing, and otherwise ONLY wash the car with soap water and dry?
4) Oh, also, I want to clear out the swirls made by the previous owner. Is SwirlX the one to go for or is there a better, less invasive product (or will polishing it alone do the job anyway)? And should I Clay before getting out swirls, or is that not necessary? I don't want to cause too much stress on the clear coat.

1-Its unnecessary to use detail spray before you apply as so long as the surface is clean. Polish to remove swirls and contaminants. I use detail spray to remove the haze after applying wax or polish.

2. It's good to wax every 3-6 months. The synthetic waxes tend to last on longer side. A good soap that doesnt remove the wax goes a long way.

3. You polish when necessary. To correct paint imperfections like swirls and scratches. Do not make polishing a weekend ruotine. You only have so much clear coat to work with. Just apply a new coat of wax when all you need is protection. Polishing essentially removes a very thin layer of the clear coat to give you that smooth finish. Polish is like ultra fine sandpaper.

4. Swirl x is a polish and works the same as any other polish. There are varying degrees of polishes from coarse to ultra fine. You must apply in stages and use the least amount (finest grit) required to correct the paint. You always end with an ultra fine polish before applying new wax. Clay as much as you want. That wont damage the paint so long as you use plenty of detail spray and a freshly washed surface. Clay bar only removes stuff stuck on the surface and has no abrasives to remove clear coat.

Invaluable information, Cmike, thanks a lot man. :tiphat: As you can tell, I'm new to the more intricate details of paint care. With my previous cars I just washed them. No extra care.

But the Z is my baby. :icon17:

Wipe the polish off before it drys. Roof first-put the polish on, wipe it off before it drys. The do the hood, same as the roof. Do the car in sections. Polish a section --- but wipe off, before it drys(if it drys a little, it's no big deal). Make sure to rotate your cloth. Buff it a little, you'll see the shine. After that wax the whole car.

Thanks, erm... Dad. :tup: I'd have probably done that wrong, too. :rofl2:

EDIT: What's the best cloth to use for polishing?

The ones in the photo look Ok, you'll need maybe 8-10, but thats only because your polishing and/plus waxing.

After I dry I use a detail spray that claims it can remove dirt. The reason for that is so i can remove any thing I missed when washing and remove any left over water spots.
Learn the difference between waxes and sealants. I don't think any "wax" will last 6 months. I don't really know much about techwax 2.0 so I cant comment on it.
First thing I have to address is, you have no machine to polish any thing I suspect. There for you wont be doing any polishing.
I may be wrong but if its normal wax and you washed it with a car soap that is harsh you would wash some wax off also I think. You will have to figure out how long techwax lasts on your car and re-apply it based on your own likings.
I don't know any thing about SwirlX. I would recommend looking up Junkmans posts on the wash wax forum here. Its very good information.

And how. There are so many things wrong here but I'll wait until the OP ask for my opinion.

Fire away... :tiphat:

Man! I feel like Robocop when they terminated his 4th prime directive preventing him from arresting any senior executive of OCP. Now I can take the gloves off!

Okay Tanooki, I can see that you have been reading some detailing threads by the fact that you bought two buckets. Don't buy anything else until you have done some research of the correct caliber. You know how they say "practice makes perfect?" The correct saying is "perfect practice makes perfect." If you are repeating a incorrect approach, you will experience what you are experiencing.

Let's start with those two buckets you bought. Great for carrying water around in but they are the last things that I would use to wash my car. The reason why is that your two buckets are missing the most important thing that a two bucket wash process must have in order to SAFELY wash your car and those are Grit Guards.

It does you no good to use a two bucket system if your soap and rinse water has dirt in it that you continuously disturb every time you stick your mitt into them. The Grit Guards are what prevents this from happening, along with the practice of using two buckets. I did a thread about the Grit Guards and the Grit Guard buckets and how they work. I suggest that you take a look at that thread so that you can get a thorough understanding of the importance of using them.

Next, let's address those towels and that Chamois or "shammy". First, the shammy. There is one major problem with those and that is, not all Chamois are authentic. Everything that you will find in the big box and auto stores are usually made in China crap consisting of goat or pig skin, instead of being made from the actual Chamois, a goat-antelope species native to mountains in Europe, including the Carpathian Mountains of Romania, the European Alps, the Tatra Mountains, the Balkans, parts of Turkey, and the Caucasus.

Now I didn't remember that off the top of my head, I had to look that up!

Anywho, if you think that what you are getting in a auto store is high grade and cost a lot, those prices and quality are nothing compared to the cost of real Chamois, which is often used in the glove making industry. For example, a 40x60cm piece of real Chamois will run you around $50 US. But man, they make some of the best driving and golf gloves that you will ever put your hands into. I paid $60 for my Chamois golf gloves.

That China made junk is garbage and will scratch up your paint. I used enough of it in the 80's to know first hand.

The same goes for the microfiber towels that you purchased. If you look at the tags on them, you will see that they were made in China. Totally garbage. When I bought my car from the first owner, he told me that the only thing he ever used to dry the car with was those fancy microfiber towels that he bought at Auto Zone. Here's what the car looked like the day I bought it:

http://www.pc-surgeon.net/images/cfo...fore_zaino.jpg

Concentrate on the door where the sun is hitting it. Do you see all those hideous scratches and swirls? That looks like utter crap! This is the bliss that a lot of car owners live in. Those cheap, made in China towels are NOT what you want touching your car. They will scratch the paint to hell and back. It doesn't happen with the first use, it happens over time. Those scratches will always be in your paint if you continue to use those towels you bought.

Now I never bag on a product without recommending a alternative. I have found two towels which are worth their weight in gold. The Adam's Single Soft Microfiber Towel and the Zaino Borderless Blond Towel. You cannot go wrong with either towel. These are two of the best towels on the market.

Now let's address your product choice. Since you purchased Meguiar's, I will assume that Meguiar's is the brand you want to use. I will not attempt to change your mind, however, I will educate you on the product of your choice.

Meguiar's has an excellent line of products, some of which I use in my very own garage. You on the other hand, did not purchase any of them. As a matter of fact, what you purchased was from the junk line that Meguiar's sells. Here's the deal.

Meguiar's has two separate lines of product. One line will say "Meguiar's" on the bottle (what you bought). That is their consumer line. It is priced aggressively compared to the other products that sit beside it on the shelves at the big box and auto stores. That is their watered down, containing fillers line. That is what I call garbage.

Then there is their professional line. It will say "Mirror Glaze" on the label. This product IS NOT sold in big box or auto stores. The only place that you can get it is online, at professional body shop outlets or at a Mirror Glaze distributor. This is the stuff you want to be using if you are going to use the Meguiar's line. It ain't cheap and it is not conveniently located (unless you have a Mirror Glaze distributor in your city like I do). ANYTHING from their professional line is going to be an outstanding product. You have a multitude of products to choose from within that line and for a novice, this can be not only confusing, but daunting at the same time. That is the main reason that I don't use it as a teaching tool. Novices get totally lost in all the different products. That is also why I use Adam's, and use it as a teaching tool. It is as simple as these videos.

Now there are people who use the consumer line products from Meguiar's and feel that they are a lot better than I give them credit for. At the same time, I'm sure you've had a friend who swore that some woman he saw was fine as hell but once you laid eyes upon her, you were looking for the nearest grocery bag. All of that is to say this. Anyone can tell you that their paint looks better than showroom on the Internet. They can even post a 20' shot of their car and make it look gorgeous. But until you can walk up to their car and stick your nose down in the paint, you will really never know if what they say is true or not. That's why I will set the bar at what I call perfect paint so that you and I are on the same page.

Here's a car that looks like it is ready for a trip across the stage at Barrett-Jackson. At first glance, this is a dream.

http://www.pc-surgeon.net/images/cforum/hanights58.jpg

But when you actually walk up on the paint and stick your nose in it, this is what you see:

http://www.pc-surgeon.net/images/cforum/hanights59.jpg

http://www.pc-surgeon.net/images/cforum/hanights60.jpg

It's about as bad as when they turn the lights on at closing time in a strip club, allowing you actually see what the strippers really look like. :roflpuke2:

Now using the process that you saw in the videos that I linked to earlier, this is what half of that car looked like when I finished with it:

http://www.pc-surgeon.net/images/cforum/hanights62.jpg

http://www.pc-surgeon.net/images/cforum/hanights63.jpg


As you can see, my idea of perfect paint is little more extreme than most. You are not going to get those kinds of results with the stuff you purchased. You kinda wasted your money there but hey, we all had to learn including me. Mind you, I started back in the early 80's so I've been through a lot of garbage products.

I'll leave you with two images of my paint. From 10 feet:

http://www.pc-surgeon.net/images/cforum/freshwash.jpg

...and from 10 inches:

http://www.pc-surgeon.net/images/cfo...eup_paint4.jpg

The result is the same. Flawless.

I await your questions. :tup:

Nice Write up as always junkman. It's tough giving advice without coming off as a sales pitch isnt it.

Also, be it megs, Adams or whatever brand. It's best not to mix different products. Don't apply a coat of Adam's wax over the NXT wax for example without removing th old wax first.

OP, I would leave any type of polishing to the pro's if your not comfortable or don't have the proper tools. At the very least, practice on an old crappy car. Any friends or family member wouldn't mind a free detail.

Those look like Hard Water Stains to me. Look at getting a garden hose filter...

:rofl2:

You are so right!

I 100% agree with this. The chemist who have developed these products have already done the guess work as far as what product works best with what product. Staying within a family line of products is always the best route to go as you don't have to worry about any adverse reaction between brands, whether you can actually see the reaction or not. Very solid advice.

I would say that he would be okay if he picked up a PC. It is very hard to do damage to paint with a PC unless you just flat out beat the car with it. Safest machine on the planet that actually will do something. :tup:

OP, there are quite a few professional grade brands out there to choose from. Just choose a professional grade product and give yourself a fighting chance. I can unplug you from the Matrix and open the door, but you are the one who has to walk through it. ;)

:icon18::icon18:

Wow, Junkman, that's a great write-up, thanks very much man, I really appreciate it. I had actually previously watched your videos before posting this thread - very informative and, actually, very entertaining to watch. :tup:

(Before I start, questions for you are in bold, for easy return-reference).

Here's the thing (and don't take this the wrong way, I have saved every shred of information you offered and will use it all); I think there are certainly different degrees to which one can go to achieve a certain result with this.

You take it to the highest degree - professional, order-only products, PCs, and all that. It's the whole hog. And so you get a professional finish. The reason why I watched your videos and then, seemingly arrogantly, proceeded not to buy all the stuff you used and copy it exactly is simply because, right at this very moment in time, I'm not ready to go that far.

The reason is a mixture of confidence and money. I just bought the car. I basically picked up my bank account like a giant pot and tipped it upside down into the lap of a Nissan salesman. Therefore, while I respect the fact that you get what you pay for when it comes to car products, and I totally aimed to avoid getting 'the cheap stuff', I'm certainly not ready to hit one of those $400 PC packages on Adams. I need a few months to recover the cash to spend on stuff like that.

Confidence-wise, I really just didn't want to take any sort of machine to my paintwork. Like, I know that these processes basically wear down a tiny layer of your clear coat. I know my car's relatively new and so I should have plenty of clearcoat to play with. But I just didn't want to go so far as using a machine - just yet.

All in all, I'm not going to achieve your professional, perfect results. I know this.

So, basically, my intention was (is) to - for now - do the best possible job I can by hand without having to buy bottles of insanely-priced super soap or specialist machines, but also without doing further damage to my paint.

Of course, I fully respect your methods, and I know that achieving the perfect paint you show in those pics will require me to go further than some over-the-counter products and a bit of elbow grease. That's why there are professionals, like yourself, in the world - because the average people using average methods don't garner the same spotless results.

I guess I'm aiming for that level just below professional, but well above the typical spit-wash normal people do who don't know or care about the finer condition of their paint.

So here's what I want to do. I want to wash and dry the car the best I can. Then I want to polish (if possible) and wax the car as best I can by hand. Taking on all this advice, I'll get the grit guard buckets (I already had those on my list:tup:), I'll order those towels (Are they for washing or just drying, or both?), and I'll throw away my shammy and towels. :icon17:

Surely not everyone on here who wants to take care of their paint goes the whole hog with all the machines, right? I mean, is it impossible to polish to any extent without a machine? Is the below statement really true?:

So, no machine means no polishing - to ANY extent? Is that how it is?

If so then I guess I'll keep my swirls for now, and just clean, clay then wax the car and maintain it as it is right now until I'm ready to go to Junkman-levels of perfection. :tiphat:

But I feel that statement is a little too black-and-white. Is there no grey area? If I CAN achieve some degree of polishing by hand - without damaging the clear coat - then that's all I want to achieve for now. Again, that's for now.

Can I use SwirlX by hand? Is the Adam's Swirl remover much better? If so, would it then be ill-advised to use the Megs Tech Wax after the Adams polish? Also, the Tech Wax came with a little buffer pad in the box. Is that garbage too?

I'll get those towels you suggested - but which towels should I use for each stage: Wash, dry, polish, wax?

And Claying - it seems pretty easy and non-invasive. After using a clay bar on a spot, I just wipe clear with detail spray and drying cloth, right?

That'll do me for now.

Again, please don't think you've wasted your time, or that I'm dismissing your expertise. I will come back to this thread, now bookmarked, and go for that perfect finish in a few months, and I can't thank you enough for taking the time to provide me with such extensive information. :tiphat:

Like I said I don't know any thing about SwirlX or polishing by hand.
Quick search got me this: Car Polishers & Car Polish: Car Polishing For a Show Car Shine
"It is no longer possible to effectively polish and wax your car by hand. The simple reason is that modern car paint finishes, since about year 2000, are very hard and durable."
I kind of assume you will do more damage then good, while maintaining quite impressive forearms from all the rubbing hahahaha.


If I were to polish I would find a tried and tested method of polishing. For me Junkman posted a tried and tested method with video steps. I use the Adams line of polishes and quite a few of there products. I am a big fan of Adam's Invisible Undercarriage Spray. But I did not buy the 400 dollar package. You can pick and choose what ever items you want from where ever to save cash.

Read my guide on Zaino, You dont have to use Zaino but it will help you with some techniques.

Here's the deal with polishing. First off, polishing is what makes the paint shine (NOT WAX, for those who may confused about that). Using a polish to remove haze, swirls and scratches in and on your paint results in the shine you want from your paint. The bottom line is that if you are using a polish product by hand, you are still polishing the paint. However, and this is a big however, how effective you are going to be at polishing the paint by hand totally depends on the condition of the paint that you are working on. Polishing paint by hand that is in the condition that you see on the Camaro that I posted earlier is a waste of time unless you are doing 20 to life and have nothing better to do.

So yes, you can polish paint by hand, but it is a waste of time unless the paint you are working on is damn near flawless to start with. That's the deal on polishing by hand.

SwirlX is a polish. Yes you can use it by hand. It is not all that effective when used with a machine so you really diminish its effectiveness when you use it by hand.

The towels that I directed you too are only for removing polish and wax. NOTHING ELSE. They are NOT drying towels, and I don't use them with quick detailers because they just drink up the quick detailer and push it around. Waffle weave towels are made for working with liquids, be that drying the car or using a quick detailer. They suck up water and you can use a small towel to dry a car once you use the pooling rinse technique to substantially dry the car.

Yes, but you need to polish paint after claying because claying will leave the paint slightly dull looking, unless you clay like a pansy. When you see me clay, you know that the paint is clean of all contamination, however, you will need to polish the paint to bring the ultimate shine back.

Hey, I appreciate the fact that you are true to yourself as far as what you want to do and what is realistic for you. In no way do I feel dissed or as if I wasted my time, as not only you will benefit from this thread. I am always more than willing to offer assistance and you can feel free to call on me at any time. I will be more than happy to offer any assistance. :tiphat:

Junkman2008, your knowledge, and politeness is priceless.

unless you are doing 20 to life and have nothing better to do. I'm still laughing at that!

:rofl2:

You made me laugh out loud! But really, if you have ever tried to get some swirls out of paint by hand, it's like doing federal time! I tried it on a small spot and after about 2 minutes, I was sweating like Rosanne Barr's armpits in the summertime! :wtf2:

Hey man, thanks for the advice. I didn't mean any offense by questioning your advice, I just need to make sure of these things, y'know? :tiphat:

:icon18::icon18:

So, I mean, my paint's not THAT bad. It's still super young. I just kinda thought a little by-hand polishing would just buff out a few of the finer swirls - make it less noticeable.

But if it does more harm than good maybe I won't bother until I get the machines. And if Clay bar-ing has a dulling effect and I can't return to a shine with by-hand polishing, again, maybe I'll just leave it.

Oh well. Just a two-bucket wash then. :ugh2:

Oh, and I just got caught in the rain. When this happens, do you guys just park it in the garage and let it dry normally, or do you make efforts to dry it off? I know just taking a towel to it would be bad because the water will be full of dirt right now...

You won't do any harm by polishing by hand but your paint will decide how effective you are. You can still go ahead and try it.

NEVER wipe you car down after it rains. That is the quickest way to start some serious swirling!

Yeah, don't wipe it down. Dirt usually gets splashed around and ends up sticking. I usually just spray it down with the hose until I get a chance to do a proper wash.

Thanks for all your help, peeps. This is a really good thread for complete newbies. I have myself a shopping list and I'll be happier knowing I'm doing things right.

^_^

Dry with an electric leaf blower, the less you touch the paint the better.

tanooki- i just saw your thread and didn't read the entire thread, but those buckets you got are too small! :D hahaha. you need minimum 5 gallon capacity and place grit guard on the bottom.

i personally use two griot's buckets with casters. has a grill on the bottom as well. great tool.

http://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/Grio...0_FAM?$detail$

You should check out the whole thread. He's straight now. ;)

Fancy bucket you got there. Where's the cupholders?

They are on the fancy chair that comes with the bucket. :D

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/tolae_2140_60672861

:icon18:

LOL!


dayam!~ :D i dont use a creeper chair when i detail.... just knee pleasers (foam mats).

Hey Junkman et all,

First of all I want to say you are “the man” when it comes to detailing cars. I have watched many of your videos and the results you produce are out of this world.

Like Super Tanooki, I recently bought a new 2011 GM 370Z in February and now it requires a wash. I have been holding off washing it until I get all the proper supplies

I am new to detailing – but take pride in what I own and make sure it looks as good as much as possible. With that being said I have a couple of things that I would like to ask you about washing and detailing

I am condensing the steps to move to my point quicker. (Feel free the add steps if you think they are vital to the process)

Step 1: 2 Bucket Wash System – I have ordered all the proper supply’s to wash the car

Step 2: Drying the car – Sheeting + air dry (spot dry with waffle towels). Now are Adam’s microfiber towels okay for this process?) No chinese towels

Step 3: Get Shiny – I want to bring the shine out in the new paint job. What is the best thing for my new car?
a) Just add some detail spray and dry it off with a microfiber towels
b) Superb Glaze and Carnauba Wax application
c) Machine Superwax?

Even with my new paint - Do I need to clay the car before b) or c)?
The Nissan dealership added a paint sealant to my car – do I need to change the prep before I attempt any waxes?

Supplies I ordered from Adams

• Adam’s Starter PC polishing kit
• Wash Trio
• Second Wash Mit
• Gallon of Detail Spray
• Grit Guards
• 2nd Tub of clay
• Foam Gun from AutoGeek
• Brass quick dis-connect
I already for the 5 gallon pales and Toro Leaf-blower

( I probably should have gotten the premium kit as I didn’t get any paste wax with my order – opps)

Before I hit the 370 with the PC, I am going to perfect my technique on my DD. I have a case of the swirls for in-correctly washing it over the past 5 years.

Many thanks.

I am about to put on a detailing clinic in Atlanta this morning. I will answer your post in detail this evening when I return to my hotel. There are some key things that need explaining. In the mean time, you need to watch the first 5 videos and the first 2:45 of the 6th video of this video series again, hopefully before I reply this evening. There is some clarity that you need to have so that my response will be clear.

-oops nvm