Corner Balancing - Why No One Talks about it????

cab83_750 · 05-29-2009, 12:56 PM

With all the lowering of our cars (via coilovers, shocks, springs, etc.), how come no one talks about the alleged much-required corner-balancing?

Corner balancing is a "must" for other sports car costing around $400.00 for it (including alignment). Don't we need it on the Z?

initialgemini · 05-29-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cab83_750

With all the lowering of our cars (via coilovers, shocks, springs, etc.), how come no one talks about the alleged much-required corner-balancing?

Corner balancing is a "must" for other sports car costing around $400.00 for it (including alignment). Don't we need it on the Z?

I'm going to be honest... I wasn't too sure about any kind of corner balancing so I decided to do some reading.

Corner Balancing

I think for most street drivers, the aspect of corner balancing is not on their to-do-list; however, for those who track their car, this would find a better application.

I'd like to hear from some of the more track seasoned people in here about it though...

Musashi · 05-29-2009, 02:03 PM

Honestly, most don't talk about it because they don't know what it is. Unless you are using your car on the track it's really not necessary. I have one of my cars corner balanced and my Z is not. I am very happy with the set-up on the street and track.

azn370z · 05-29-2009, 02:09 PM

I believe travis and doubledown have corner balanced their cars. But you only need to if you're going to track.

ChrisSlicks · 05-29-2009, 02:28 PM

It's really a track thing, like most people have said.

They really is only so much you can do in a stock car by adjusting the suspension height to move weight. The Forward to rear weight balance you are pretty much stuck with, you can only make minor corrections like battery. Unfortunately most of the stuff you can remove from the car is in the back.

cab83_750 · 05-29-2009, 04:56 PM

Hmmmm.....

Based on my experience, corner balancing is not for track only. Even for street purposes, I can tell the difference when the car is not corner-balanced,.....especially when braking.

I do so much suspension work on my cars that I am about to buy the scales (as soon as I get the $$)

azn370z · 05-29-2009, 05:37 PM

the reason I won't corner balance is because I want there to be less wheel gap in front and more in the rear. I also want the wheel gap to be the same on the passenger side as the drivers side. I believe in order to have it balanced the gap will be different on every corner, maybe not but much. I'm more for looks and this setting shouldn't affect tire wear or handling by much.

Modshack · 05-29-2009, 07:53 PM

You can only corner balance if you install adjustable coilovers. Most guys lower strictly for the bling factor which is why you don't hear about it much. If you care at all about real handling, than corner blancing is a necessity..

cab83_750 · 05-29-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

You can only corner balance if you install adjustable coilovers. Most guys lower strictly for the bling factor which is why you don't hear about it much. If you care at all about real handling, than corner blancing is a necessity..

Real handling is what I am pursuing.

cab83_750 · 05-29-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azn370z

the reason I won't corner balance is because I want there to be less wheel gap in front and more in the rear. I also want the wheel gap to be the same on the passenger side as the drivers side. I believe in order to have it balanced the gap will be different on every corner, maybe not but much. I'm more for looks and this setting shouldn't affect tire wear or handling by much.

Would you believe that as little as 50+ lbs difference between front corners (or 50+ lbs difference between rear corners) could make a difference?

Sorry. I am just anal about handling.

ChrisSlicks · 05-30-2009, 08:46 AM

Yes, even 50 pounds can make a small difference. Not to the point that you can feel driving but you will see it in the telemetry. Right now with the stock suspension setup I have 20% more grip turning right (1.2G) than I have turning left (0.95G) and that is with passenger. Hopefully that will be corrected with coilovers, camber arms and a good alignment.

cab83_750 · 05-30-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danops

Most people do overlook corner balancing/corner weighting.

Here's a few reasons why:
1) Cost of Corner Balancing + Alignment
2) Cosmetics - they want to see how good it looks really low, wheel gap, camber, etc.
3) They can't decide what ride height to keep it at
4) Ground clearance - the most common complaint is "It's too low, I can't drive into my driveway"
5) More suspension adjustments in dampening & ride height for aftermarket wheel/tire combinations & tire rubbing
6) They don't know what corner balancing would do and how it could benefit them in safety, braking, acceleration, weight transfer in turns, and overall handling.

It's almost like ECU tuning.. people will buy aftermarket parts but will not spend the money for custom dyno tuning. The Dyno Tuning will be the best for performance, reliability, efficiency but costs $400-1000 plus the engine management $500-3000.

Suspension tuning can cost anywhere between $200-2000. There are so many concerns to get it tuned just right for the driver. Driving style is the biggest concern, followed by road conditions, power, brakes, and tire compound.

You summarized this pretty well. Great job!

The undecisiveness of the height is the main cause of the cumulative cost: you lower it ($$), then corner balance it $$, then align it $$. Then you change your mind to get it lowered again, or perhaps getting it raised again....resulting to a cyclical and repeating cost. Believe me, I went through this process.

I believe that there could be a point where 'cosmetics' and correctly-balanced car can meet.

As far as "people not knowing about the safety benefit", that is probably something that sports car driver should begin to get education on.

BTW, automotive scales can cost over $1,000.00. He, who can invent an affordable bathroom scale that could measure up to 1,000 lbs, could make some money marketing the gizmo.

BlueR32 · 05-31-2009, 10:13 PM

corner balancing is an effort to get cross-weights equal. having the front lower than the back (or vice versa) would not affect one's corner balance, only the front/back weight distribution.

if you have coils and care about handling, you should get corner balanced. it is primarily a track thing, since you have to make certain assumptions: weight of the driver, whether a passenger is present or not, how much gas is in the car, whether the spare is out or not, etc.

so, a corner balance for the track will not necessarily be perfect when you're taking your 300lb gf to in-and-out burger.

that having been said, a badly off corner balance can really adversely affect handling and braking. so, even if you don't track, you should at least make sure that your corner weights are not way off, if you have coils.

FricFrac · 06-03-2009, 06:06 PM

Forgive my ignorance (here we go...) but my only experience with racing is with 1/10th scale cars. When we corner balance the car we do it with weight distribution not by adjusting the ride height. Its my understanding that adjusting the ride height differently between side/side and front/back is that the car will handle differently if the ride heights are different because of the different geometries created with different heights, springs rates aren't linear, etc.

Another important effect is the turning radius and having the car turn equally in both arcs - will different ride heights/geometries affect the left/right turn arcs?

I'm assuming adding weight to the car to balance it evenly is too difficult or the gained weight is less benificial than the performance gained with the weight removed so adjustment is done with ride height?

zilent_jay · 07-11-2009, 03:23 PM

I know the 350 was very well corner balanced straight from the factory. I assume the 370 would be similar. That's another reason you don't hear about it much in the Z crowd... unless you've screwed with your suspension or weight distribution, there is simply no need to have your Z corner balanced.

I dropped over 150lbs from my 350z in various places. I was on the stock suspension and never had the car corner balanced. The reduced weight far outweighed any detriment I did to the corner balance.

05-29-2009, 12:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
cab83_750 Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 887 Drives: 09 NISSAN 370Z Rep Power: 417	Corner Balancing - Why No One Talks about it???? With all the lowering of our cars (via coilovers, shocks, springs, etc.), how come no one talks about the alleged much-required corner-balancing? Corner balancing is a "must" for other sports car costing around $400.00 for it (including alignment). Don't we need it on the Z?

05-29-2009, 02:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
azn370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,722 Drives: z34 - R1 Rep Power: 489	I believe travis and doubledown have corner balanced their cars. But you only need to if you're going to track. __________________ 2010 k23 H&R sport springs / Spc rear camber arms / SSR SP1 / Berk cbe / Varis cf lip / Nismo S-Tune side skirts

05-29-2009, 05:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
azn370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,722 Drives: z34 - R1 Rep Power: 489	the reason I won't corner balance is because I want there to be less wheel gap in front and more in the rear. I also want the wheel gap to be the same on the passenger side as the drivers side. I believe in order to have it balanced the gap will be different on every corner, maybe not but much. I'm more for looks and this setting shouldn't affect tire wear or handling by much. __________________ 2010 k23 H&R sport springs / Spc rear camber arms / SSR SP1 / Berk cbe / Varis cf lip / Nismo S-Tune side skirts

05-29-2009, 07:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
Modshack A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Greenville NC Posts: 2,883 Drives: 370Z Sport Rep Power: 976	You can only corner balance if you install adjustable coilovers. Most guys lower strictly for the bling factor which is why you don't hear about it much. If you care at all about real handling, than corner blancing is a necessity.. __________________ Steal my car! (SOLD)...Now Porsche Cayman S Oil Cooler DIY: Here!

05-31-2009, 10:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
BlueR32 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 20 Drives: 2004 VW R32 Rep Power: 203	corner balancing is an effort to get cross-weights equal. having the front lower than the back (or vice versa) would not affect one's corner balance, only the front/back weight distribution. if you have coils and care about handling, you should get corner balanced. it is primarily a track thing, since you have to make certain assumptions: weight of the driver, whether a passenger is present or not, how much gas is in the car, whether the spare is out or not, etc. so, a corner balance for the track will not necessarily be perfect when you're taking your 300lb gf to in-and-out burger. that having been said, a badly off corner balance can really adversely affect handling and braking. so, even if you don't track, you should at least make sure that your corner weights are not way off, if you have coils. littlejuanito likes this.

05-29-2009, 02:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
Musashi Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 357 Drives: 09 370Z 6speed Rep Power: 606	Honestly, most don't talk about it because they don't know what it is. Unless you are using your car on the track it's really not necessary. I have one of my cars corner balanced and my Z is not. I am very happy with the set-up on the street and track.

05-29-2009, 02:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	It's really a track thing, like most people have said. They really is only so much you can do in a stock car by adjusting the suspension height to move weight. The Forward to rear weight balance you are pretty much stuck with, you can only make minor corrections like battery. Unfortunately most of the stuff you can remove from the car is in the back.

05-29-2009, 04:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
cab83_750 Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 887 Drives: 09 NISSAN 370Z Rep Power: 417	Hmmmm..... Based on my experience, corner balancing is not for track only. Even for street purposes, I can tell the difference when the car is not corner-balanced,.....especially when braking. I do so much suspension work on my cars that I am about to buy the scales (as soon as I get the $$)

05-30-2009, 08:46 AM	#11 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Yes, even 50 pounds can make a small difference. Not to the point that you can feel driving but you will see it in the telemetry. Right now with the stock suspension setup I have 20% more grip turning right (1.2G) than I have turning left (0.95G) and that is with passenger. Hopefully that will be corrected with coilovers, camber arms and a good alignment.

06-03-2009, 06:06 PM	#14 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 228	Forgive my ignorance (here we go...) but my only experience with racing is with 1/10th scale cars. When we corner balance the car we do it with weight distribution not by adjusting the ride height. Its my understanding that adjusting the ride height differently between side/side and front/back is that the car will handle differently if the ride heights are different because of the different geometries created with different heights, springs rates aren't linear, etc. Another important effect is the turning radius and having the car turn equally in both arcs - will different ride heights/geometries affect the left/right turn arcs? I'm assuming adding weight to the car to balance it evenly is too difficult or the gained weight is less benificial than the performance gained with the weight removed so adjustment is done with ride height?

07-11-2009, 03:23 PM	#15 (permalink)
zilent_jay Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: OKC Posts: 96 Drives: 2009 MB Base Sport Rep Power: 15	I know the 350 was very well corner balanced straight from the factory. I assume the 370 would be similar. That's another reason you don't hear about it much in the Z crowd... unless you've screwed with your suspension or weight distribution, there is simply no need to have your Z corner balanced. I dropped over 150lbs from my 350z in various places. I was on the stock suspension and never had the car corner balanced. The reduced weight far outweighed any detriment I did to the corner balance.

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