Non-Sport Brakes

[christian370z]

I would love to get a set of sport Akebono calipers and rotors for my Touring Z but I always want to see about all the options. Could non-sport brakes be made to be near Akebono performance with a set of pads, rotors, ss lines, and some high temperature fluid?

I am rarely ever going to track it and will mostly be doing auto-x or canyon runs so I feel like Akebonos might be overkill (not to mention cost effectiveness).

[Jamaica]

they main question is: do you really need it?

[christian370z]

It is really mostly piece of mind that I can tackle almost anything I could throw at it, I would rather have it than not need it than need it and not have it (the epitome of my modding disease).

[Jamaica]

Well are willing to pay the money for it?

[ChrisSlicks]

The base brakes should be almost as capable as the sport brakes with the right pad, the main difference will be pedal feel. Single piston floating setups feel a little bit mushy compared to a fixed setup. I had the base brake setup on my Infiniti and they took a lot of abuse.

[christian370z]

I would be willing to pay for it, not right now though as I am not going to be using the car past the limits of its stock brakes. Thanks Chris, I will do some research on this site for good pads and will probably go for ATE Super Blue and maybe rotors although the stockers should be fine with a pad that doesn't tear them up for now.

[cossie1600]

If you don't track the car, the big brakes would simply be for looks. You can pretty much make up any short term difference with good pads. Save your money or feel free to donate it to them. Remember, tires have just as much to do in how fast you can stop.

My 350 with the little brakes stop slightly slower than my 370 with the big brakes, it's not worth the 3000 if you don't track the car. Rotors are a waste of money, especially if yours are still good.

Please, not the ATE super blue crappy brake fluid, the ultimate ricer/internet forum special. They probably do as much as the HPS, which is worse than stock....

[ChrisSlicks]

The advantage to ATE is it's slow water absorption, i.e. it is good for people too lazy to flush the fluid as often as they are supposed to. If you flush often Ford Heavy Duty is the bargain of the century at about 1/3 the price of ATE. The exotic fluids (Castrol SRF, RBF 600, Endless RF-650) are a waste of money unless you are really punishing your brakes and getting the caliper temperatures high ... which seems unlikely as your pads would have failed first and the front of your car is already embedded in the tire wall.

[cab83_750]

The stock brakes are mushy and grabby. To me they felt like they were made for luxury cars. It bugged the heck out of me switching from my other car to the Z.

6-pot brakes are more linear and I feel more "in tune" with the car and the pavement. I have not tra ked my car but I do a few canyon-carving now and then.

Strictly for daily driving, are they worth it? For me, yes! I feel safer as I am more in tune with the car. With the bbk, the car does not feel like a wild horse. Lastly, as the car responds more to my liking, it is more relaxing and more fun for me to trash around.

Just my opinion.

[Island_370]

Originally Posted by christian370z

I would love to get a set of sport Akebono calipers and rotors for my Touring Z but I always want to see about all the options. Could non-sport brakes be made to be near Akebono performance with a set of pads, rotors, ss lines, and some high temperature fluid?

I am rarely ever going to track it and will mostly be doing auto-x or canyon runs so I feel like Akebonos might be overkill (not to mention cost effectiveness).

Here is my opinion based on personal experience....

My previous car had floating calipers. I installed better pads, teflon lines, and better pads. The brakes felt better. But the inherent flex in the caliper is always there. The linearity that you get with a fixed caliper is the feel I prefer. Unless you significantly increase rotor diameter, you will notice little braking distance difference with a BBK. The real advantage of a "real bbk"** is the ability to shed heat...thus your brakes remain constant longer on a track---or in canyons. Repetitive braking is where bbks really shine. Pedal feel is where fixed calipers shine.

**A real kit must keep master cylinder capacity in mind. StopTech issued a kit for my old car that actually reduced braking (increased braking distance and hugely shifted bias to the rear--dangerous) because the caliper pistons were not correct for the brake system. They released a new version later that corrected it. Some are for show and some are for performance. Be wary.

[cossie1600]

Most of the flex comes from the SS line anyway

[cab83_750]

Originally Posted by cossie1600

Most of the flex comes from the SS line anyway

You mean the rubber lines, correct?

[cossie1600]

Yes, I meant the SS can take care of the indirect feel. Sorry.

I personally still hate the feel of SS lines. The brake pedal becomes too much like an on/off switch

[christian370z]

Originally Posted by cossie1600

If you don't track the car, the big brakes would simply be for looks. You can pretty much make up any short term difference with good pads. Save your money or feel free to donate it to them. Remember, tires have just as much to do in how fast you can stop.

My 350 with the little brakes stop slightly slower than my 370 with the big brakes, it's not worth the 3000 if you don't track the car. Rotors are a waste of money, especially if yours are still good.

Please, not the ATE super blue crappy brake fluid, the ultimate ricer/internet forum special. They probably do as much as the HPS, which is worse than stock....

I ran ATE in my '96 Saab along with EBC redstuff pads and EBC rotors and I could not get any fade whatsoever and those brakes stock really suck far worse than anything people complain about here. I definately do not need new rotors as I only have 900 miles on the car and from what I have read here, I will be avoid Hawk without a doubt.

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

The advantage to ATE is it's slow water absorption, i.e. it is good for people too lazy to flush the fluid as often as they are supposed to. If you flush often Ford Heavy Duty is the bargain of the century at about 1/3 the price of ATE. The exotic fluids (Castrol SRF, RBF 600, Endless RF-650) are a waste of money unless you are really punishing your brakes and getting the caliper temperatures high ... which seems unlikely as your pads would have failed first and the front of your car is already embedded in the tire wall.

Haha, the last sentence is a good way to put it. I see that I need to do some research on optimal brake fluid on here was well, thanks for the info as always Chris!

Originally Posted by cab83_750

The stock brakes are mushy and grabby. To me they felt like they were made for luxury cars. It bugged the heck out of me switching from my other car to the Z.

6-pot brakes are more linear and I feel more "in tune" with the car and the pavement. I have not tra ked my car but I do a few canyon-carving now and then.

Strictly for daily driving, are they worth it? For me, yes! I feel safer as I am more in tune with the car. With the bbk, the car does not feel like a wild horse. Lastly, as the car responds more to my liking, it is more relaxing and more fun for me to trash around.

Just my opinion.

I appreciate your input, I feel the same way but I don't have the kind of money for a true BBK at the moment (poor college student FTL) and I also know it would be huge overkill for my skill level and intended use for the car.

Originally Posted by Island_370

Here is my opinion based on personal experience....

My previous car had floating calipers. I installed better pads, teflon lines, and better pads. The brakes felt better. But the inherent flex in the caliper is always there. The linearity that you get with a fixed caliper is the feel I prefer. Unless you significantly increase rotor diameter, you will notice little braking distance difference with a BBK. The real advantage of a "real bbk"** is the ability to shed heat...thus your brakes remain constant longer on a track---or in canyons. Repetitive braking is where bbks really shine. Pedal feel is where fixed calipers shine.

Good points, I also had floating calipers on my last car and while the stopping power was there, it definately required more pedal travel and force as the braking required increased. I just want to get better bite and life when hot as I could smell my brakes cooking after a short canyon run a week ago. I do like the amount of modulation and progressive feel of the floating calipers even though I know they are not the best for pedal feel or outright abuse.

I had good experiences with EBC but what are some good light duty pads for the non-sport brakes? I was looking at Carbotech but I saw so many conflicting opinions on the performance of their compounds that I got more confused.

[AP - Chris_B]

Originally Posted by christian370z

I would love to get a set of sport Akebono calipers and rotors for my Touring Z but I always want to see about all the options. Could non-sport brakes be made to be near Akebono performance with a set of pads, rotors, ss lines, and some high temperature fluid?

I am rarely ever going to track it and will mostly be doing auto-x or canyon runs so I feel like Akebonos might be overkill (not to mention cost effectiveness).

This is the dilemma: Fixed calipers should be better than floating, right? Well, generally yes! However, the OE Sport Akebono's are not at the top of the performers list for stiffness and response, so they are not an automatic choice. If you can get a set cheap, then I'd say go for it. If not, then either upgrade what you have with one of the better rotor options, SS lines, better fluid (like AP Racing Formula 5.1) and better pads. Take the money you save and put it elsewhere, or save it towards a true BBK if you decide down the road to track the car more.

Chris