FYI PFC665 is the same actual fluid as Castrol SRF but a bit cheaper (per a friend at PFC)

I have heard that as well. Yet, is it not true. Castrol (a marketing company) does not private label for companies other than car manufacturers, but they would not PL their SRF for anyone. Reading the specs for both will add some clarity. The PFC fluid is made by a chemical company in the UK, just like the majority of the performance and racing brands on the market. Regardless, in the 35+ years since SRF was introduced, other options have been introduced that perform better and are more cost-effective.

That's interesting. Also, I will highly highly highly recommend PFC 665. Holds up great on track and the other guys at the last DE were jelly of me for having it.

What? WHat fluid are you buying that has a 500+ F WET boiling point. Forget about dry boiling point, all brake fluid will absorb moisture at some point

For daily drivers that don't get the brake fluid flushed often (2 year should be max), then yes. But for enthusiasts who track their cars occasionally, the primary importance is dry boiling point over wet. It takes about 2 years on average for brake fluid to go from "dry" to "wet" (3.7% absorbed moisture), so if we are flushing as often as we should, the wet boiling point hardly matters. This assumes fluid was poured from a freshly opened container and brake bleeding assistance did NOT include a pressure bleeder without a diaphragm.

For information 99.9% of what people will ever need to know about brake fluid, check here: Torque Brake Fluid ABC's

You'll see there that while boiling points are of a primary importance, other factors are also key in choosing the best fluid. My apologies in advance to any chemical engineers reading this as that page is a layman's synopsis, yet a very good one.

Chris

Mercury.

Unfortunately many bottles are not stored in ideally location or in proper setup. If you crack a bottle and don't use it up, good luck keeping it fresh.

Yeah, I don't keep them around much longer than a week or two once they're opened. I usually just bleed a whole bottle through the clutch system and two whole bottles through the brake system.

What is everyone's thoughts on motul 5.1 non silicone base brake fluid for street use?

DOT 5.1 has a lower viscosity index, which is helpful with ABS, especially in colder climates. Motul's is good, but nothing special. Like all of their brake fluids, it is a product of "package engineering".

Motul 5.1 is perfectly fine for normal street driving. Definitely recommend the RBF600 or something with higher boiling points if you plan to do any repetitive hard braking.

Thanks fellas for all the help

Just a heads-up. Do not mix silicone with non-silicone. You'll get jelly as the by-product. :eek: The 5.1 fluid comes both ways. Make sure of which one you have. ;)

I"m pretty sure I still have stock brake fluid. Is that no go on that?

Stock brake fluid is non-silicone, cheap DOT4. So you would be ok. ;) Make it easy on yourself. Just get Motul 600 and call it a day.

To further highlight how confusing the DOT standards are, DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are completely incompatible.

DOT 5 = silicone (should really never be used in a car)
DOT 5.1 = borate ester-based (standard brake fluid). Much like DOT 4, but with a lower viscosity rating.

Chris

Baxter you know i don't speak spanish

Hey Mike, is this what you are talking about for Valvoline Synthetic? Valvoline/32 oz. DOT 3 and 4 brake fluid 601458 - Read 1 Reviews on Valvoline #601458

So dumb question. I have a 10 370Z base model. Is the stock brake fluid DOT3 or DOT4? I'll probably be changing my brakes/rotors and figured I'd have Nissan flush the brake fluid also. I've read the posts within this thread and I'm still between 5.1 or 600 for brake fluid. If stock is DOT3 then I'm leaning more toward 5.1. If stock is DOT4 then I'll go 600. I just don't want any issues later on down the road. I don't track my car at all and don't plan on it. And honestly I drive like a grandma lol. Also if stock is DOT3 would switching to 600 cause any issues? I've been reading how 600 could possibly cause an issue with the ABS system.

OEM fluid is DOT 3. But you still want the Motul RBF600 :twocents:

i use valvoline dot3/4

Thanks. One more dumb question. If I replace the rotors/pads and fluid, should I go ahead and replace the brake lines/hoses too?

Not necessarily, but if you're spending money, you might as well. You'll need to bleed the brakes when you install new brake lines, so you want to time it with a brake flush. I did my rotors and pads early on, but I didn't install SS lines until several years later.

No votes for ATE Type 200? I've used it in a 2004 Ford Mustang Cobra, '06 Hyundai Sonata, '08 F350, '06 F250, '07 Ducati 1098, '00 GSXR-750, '09 R1, '05 GSXR-750 and now the '10 Z Sport all with great success regarding fade and immediate increased firmness in the brake pedal/level in all application.

Fwiw, I've used RBF 600 in the past and it required frequent bleeds in motorcycles to keep the master cylinder lever consistently firm. In a '05 GSXR-750 with '07 Yamaha R1 master cylinder (Brembo) I had to get a remote handle adjuster as the MC level would get soft during track day sessions (i.e. Fluid getting overheated). Not to mention the RBF600 bottles says to remove and replace it's fluid in your brake system yearly as it absorbs a ton of moisture. I've never had to do that with the ATE fluid.

Hey people,

Amazon sent me RBF660 instead of 600 and I'm confused if I should use it. Do our cars like this fluid?

Shouldn't be an issue. That's what I just put in my clutch. It's a higher temperature fluid.

RBF660 is more expensive with higher dry boiling point than RBF600. Consider it a win :driving:

The 660 has higher dry boil point but lower wet boil point. I use the 600 since I only service the brake fluid on pad changes. Figure at least 2/3 of the life is in the wet range.

Mixed opinions on the 660 I see :ugh2: I'd be putting it both in brakes and clutch too, since it's time for HD CSC replacement :yum:

Unless you're repeatedly threshold braking (you better be on a closed course), you won't notice the difference between the two. Braking performance at the end of the fluid life will be lower with the RBF660 fluid compared to RBF600 due to the lower wet boiling point. Even so, you shouldn't be close to boiling either fluid on the street.

I track my car often, every couple of months or so, and I use the Motul 660.
How often should I change the brake fluid if I want to maintain the high boiling point?

I have 2 bottles of Motul I'm not using. That's the top dog for brake fluid....

If you want it you can have for cheap!

Just leave me a good rep :)

I've used Motul 660, Torque RT700, and Endless RF650. Car is on DBA Club Spec 4000 rotors paired with Carbotech XP10 F &R. In addition, I recently added the Z1 BMC brace, which I highly recommend for track guys. Even street users can benefit. Biggest difference is how much less of an effort on the pedal you need to use.

The Motul was alright. Not really the most cost effective/durable option in my experience. AZ is hot as hell. It didn't last more than a few months. It lost its "freshness" so to speak in terms of pedal pressure. The Torque RT700 actually was still clear/gold in color a year ago. Had 3 track days on them and when I flushed the system, it was as black as night.

-Keep in mind, the car was used on the street pretty often as well, but lasted atleast 1 year and a half, which IMO is exceptional considering how fluids break down.

Recently, I switched to Endless RF650 and all the small nuances that I was experiencing with the other two fluids were not occurring. I'll most likely be writing my review in the later months to see how it holds up with street use. On track, its phenomenal. No pressure change during sessions and very consistent.

So far my fluid is sill clear/yellow in color. I changed it October and have had
three track days. There are only about 2000 miles on the car since then. I am going to Sebring again in April. I was also going to change the clutch fluid to the Motel 660, prior to the event. It is still the original factory fluid, from when I bought the car last May.

It only took one session for the OEM fluid to boil for me. It just can't handle the heat.

For now I'll stick with the Motul 660 for the brakes and clutch. I look forward to your review of the RF 650. Just got the FI oil cooler, so I'll be changing all the fluids before the next track day. I don't drive a lot of miles, so if I have to do the fluid changes every 6 months it is not a big deal.

Will do. So far, the combination of the Z1 BMCB and the Endless fluid have been good. I'll have to again follow up in the next few months.

There were some comments advising against using the basic pressure bleeder.
Can these few minutes that the fluid is under pressure really absorb enough moisture to make a difference?

You will hear many different opinions on this, especially from those selling pressure bleeders. The fact is that brake fluid is highly hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture eagerly. It is the #1 problem with brake fluid in general.

Pressure bleeders take atmospheric air (which has varying moisture content based on the current humidity) and forces it into the brake fluid. I take great measures to try to avoid anything even close to that. If you have completely dry air or nitrogen available, then I withdraw my objection. Most people don't.

The best way (still) is to bleed brakes it manually, which takes 3 people to do correctly. It's ALWAYS best to bleed front and rear systems at the same time, so the master cylinder piston can travel fully without interference from the other circuit, since all cars today use tandem designs. Race cars utilize dual master cylinders, and teams normally bleed all four corners at the same time. I don't have one of those crews at home (or enough 11mm flare wrenches).

Vacuum bleeders don't seem to have any negative effects and can be done with one person, as long as they are watching fluid level in the reservoir!

That said, many people swear by pressure bleeders. I just swear at them, but nobody listens...

Chris