CAUTION:
• Turn the ignition switch OFF and disconnect the ABS actuator and electric unit (control unit) connector
or the battery negative terminal before performing the work.


Anyone know how to do the underlined steps? I guess you could just disconnect the negative terminal but I'm curious.

This is what I use, great fluid and relatively inexpensive.

Interesting read

Best Brake Fluid For Track - FerrariChat.com

I use super dot 4 by pentasin. I put it in my jeep, my brother in laws jeep, and my 370z and I love it. I don't not auto cross or track my car at all so couldnt tell you how it holds up but for my use it is plenty. Also available at napa

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If you need the very best brake fluid, Torque RT700 is it. It performs even better than Castrol SRF or Endless RF-650 and costs almost as much. All three have the highest possible boiling point, but the Torque fluid has better feel (higher specific gravity / density) and higher reserve alkalinity for longer service between changes.

If not needed the best, almost all brake fluids labeled "Racing DOT4" or "High Performance DOT4" will work. About 30+ of them are made by the same company and are exactly the same fluid anyway, although their prices vary dramatically.

Chris

i don't care who'se 600 deg fluid you use...

But for the love of ALL that is HOLY... do NOT use Superblue.
<-- boiled that sh*t

For reasons that makes no sense to me, that fluid enjoyed a far better reputation than its performance should have earned. Fortunately, it is not on the market anymore in that version. The original "Type 200" (same, but not dyed) is sold by lots of distributors. It's decent for everyday street use, but nowhere near a performance/racing brake fluid.

Chris

Oh, really? i think that's what i'm running now in clutch and brakes....

I did cook it on a hot street run, and the brakes need a single push to 'pump' up nearly every use....

PFC 665. Awesome fluid and holds up great at the track for me. PFC rocks with any brake stuff.

http://www.performancefriction.com/p...ake-fluid.aspx

http://www.performancefriction.com/R...nding_jpeg.jpg

Thanks for the chart, lets me know the post above yours is good for track, but not so good for the street.

brake systems used to be separate front and rear, and now they are front right/left rear and vice versa, which is why they have that bleed order now, but you can still do each rear before doing each front, it doesn't really matter.

I know we can't run dot 5, what about Motul 5.1 ?

Yes. Motul 5.1 is fine. AFAIK, Dot 4 is compatible with 5.1 - the one you have to watch out for is Dot 5 which is silicone based and incompatible.

Do you know what "cap" for the Motive power bleeder is needed for our cars?

The three prong bleeder cap. Motive Part #1107.

Ford Three Tab Brake Bleeder 0107

DOT 5.1 is chemically compatible with DOT 4, but it's not ideal to mix them. 5.1 has a lower viscosity specific to ABS systems. The thinner fluid helps the valve response, yet it doesn't provide the same pedal feel as the best DOT 4 fluids.

If you track the car at all, it's worth spending a few extra bucks for a top fluid (like the best, Torque RT700) as you won't have to flush it nearly as often. Some teams I work with are getting 3-4 times the life, a few even more. Their crew is very happy they don't need to flush every day at the track.

If your car rarely sees the track, look for the cheapest fluid with the same specs as the Motul product. After all, it will be the same exact fluid made in the exact same UK factory as theirs is. Only the bottle is different.

Chris

rbf600 is best hands down. in this case i wouldnt reinvent the wheel and just get what works.

While the RBF600 is great fluid, I don't think there's any doubt that there are better fluids out there. Castrol SRF and Torque RT700 both have higher wet and dry boiling points :twocents:

Thanks for all the input guys. I couldn't find what I wanted local, so I had Z1 throw some motul rbf 600 in with the xp10's and xp8's I ordered.

AND better feel (due to a higher specific gravity and less dissolved air), and better reserve alkalinity, and more stable pH, and better resistance to the negative effects of moisture absorption (hygroscopicity), and...

RBF600 is definitely old school at this point and, for what it is, overpriced. The exact same fluid is found for half the price elsewhere. RBF660 is a little better (also made for Motul by the same company), but does not approach SRF, much less RT700.

Chris

Let's say all around then. RBF600 to me is $12 or something a bottle while SRF is $35 but I only see 1000mL so you have to pay out $70 and RT700 is $34. And for the Castrol SRF the dry is actually lower by 4 degrees :tup: unless you're doing hour long racing wheel to wheel like the Pirelli world c or conti with doran, save the money. 20min sessions aren't going to show any improvement. My 0.02

Maybe I'm slow, but how exactly does it "not approach" when its over for the number that counts?

brake fluid recommendations
 

You said it was the "best hands down". That's all I was responding to. I mean, I use the same damn fluid. It's the best for me (and probably most any one in a Z). But the fact remains, there are better fluids. However much, cost does not factor into how they perform in your vehicle. If you had said "best performance for cost" I would not have said anything. 'All around' is a bit vague and doesn't necessarily imply factors outside of performance are included :twocents:

Not slow at all. It is important to know that boiling point alone does not define a better brake fluid. Yes, higher is generally better, but things like specific gravity, retained moisture, reserve alkalinity, etc., do matter. Normally, RBF600 (or even RBF660) must be changed regularly when used aggressively. While RT700 does have a higher boiling point, it also has a noticeably better pedal feel (less compressible) and can be run longer, making the higher initial cost negligible. Some teams I work with are saving a little money, yet they are also saving time, which is more valuable at the track. Bleeding the brakes takes time away from more productive activities.

While the Motul product has been marketed very successfully for 30-something years, better options have been on the market for quite some time now. Since the company that makes their brake fluids also sells the very same chemicals to almost 3 dozen other companies, there is no claim to superiority that can be supported. Fortunately for enthusiasts, better brake fluid is not really that expensive as compared to the other things we should be spending money on.

Chris

So let's say i want a good quality fluid, for a car i appreciate the brakes on, occasional hard drive, possibility of a track visit once a year.

Trying not to spend a bunch of cash, but don't want regular stuff either...

For the money, Motul 600. Then go up from there.

I would have classed motul600 into a more expensive category than most brake fluids (not including race stuff) Can i assume that below there, they're all the same?

Yes, money out of pocket, performance, using for what we all do here (don't see to many pros here in PWC or conti series) it is. A 20 min session for us isn't going to show a performance gain getting fluid that's a few degrees better. I get what you're saying though.

For the money, you can use any of these fluids that are the exact same fluid as RBF600, yet some are priced lower (some under $8/bottle):

In alphabetical order: AP Racing, Brembo, EBC Brakes, Elf/Total, Eneos, Ferodo, Gulf, Millers Oil, Pagid, Pentosin, PFC, Silkolene, StopTech, Tarox, Tilton, Wilwood

Just look at the specs to see which one is the match for the 600 (too detailed to type it all here). These are not all of them, just what I have had verified since about 9 months ago. Most of these brands also have versions that match up with the 660.

Chris

For me. Motul 600 is easy and cheap to get at the motorcyle shop. :D

I'm as adverse to throwing my money away as the next guy, but IMO the price differences being discussed here are negligible considering how much brake fluid is used and how often. Less than $100 over the course of a year between the cheapest and most expensive fluid? Yeah, IDGAF. That's like using regular instead of premium gas because of the cost savings.

Like Rusty mentioned, Motul isn't expensive, and I can find it locally at the motorcycle dealer anytime I need it. I used Superblue for the convenience of the color when flushing brake fluid, but it has been outlawed because the color blue is toxic according to DoT :icon14: I don't bother with the racing stuff because it's just unnecessary for me. If I tracked or auto-x at all I would be using it because the cost difference isn't significant enough to care.

So what are you using now then?

Bingo, $10 for me cause they know me.

Ate Superblue is actually in my brake system currently. But I have several bottles of Motul RBF600 around since I did some clutch work. I expect it is what I will use as long as its a DD.

Running ATE blue in mine currently, but something isn't right, there is the slightest hint of needing to pump the pedal just before every use.
It's hardly noticeable if i don't do that, but if i do tap it first, i'll get a marginally higher pedal on the second push.

What's the standard size Motul 600? 500ml?

For a complete flush. You will need 2 bottles.

Bottle isn't a size, so i'm guessing you mean i litre of fluid for a flush?

Remember MadMaxx what your are experiencing is fairly normal. After a little brake use, you are experiencing what is called pad kickback. As you start to corner there is a little slop in the hub bearings and the rotor flexes just slightly in the hub and pushes back the pads a little. With more use this push back becomes slightly more pronounced and thus the pedal travel seems to get a little longer. Most racers have a technique which before reaching their braking point, they tap the pedal to get rid of this excess pad spacing so that when they do apply the brakes as needed, they will have a hard pedal starting and not have to pump them during the braking to get the pedal and brake pressure up hard. It also tells them if their brakes are ready to work before they really need them. Some of the newer computer controlled brake systems today now can prime the brake system if it anticipates a possible collision situation to make the brakes react even faster when applied. Unless your pads are really worn or you've got air in the system, I wouldn't worry about it.

Yes, standard size is 500 mL.