Akebonos not up to heavy track use!

Mike · 10-13-2009, 07:55 PM

At least not on a short track like Little Talladega. I mentioned before I boiled the fluid and toasted the stock rear pads in one session at the East Coast Z Nationals when running HP+ up front. I then replaced the rears with HP+, so I was running both on the front and back with valvoline synthetic. I did 1 day at Road Atlanta then one more day at Little Talladega at a time attack, where they boiled again, and today when I pulled them this is what I found on every caliper. Fortunately, I have 4 good dust boots out of the 12, and the seals are all still fine. They should get me through this weekend for the rears, although I will have to have a set of rear brake pads overnited tomorrow for a back up, and then a rebuild kit for the rears before Road Atlanta the following weekend.

Anyways, not pictured are the HP+ pads with all of the factory paint burned off of them. This is a picture of one front caliper upon removal today:

and this is my solution, the bolt on front Brembo GT Caliper set. Unfortunately, they didn't quite clear my 18" wheels and I had to slightly grind the outer ends of them for clearance, so they are being repowdercoated a satin black tomorrow.

Hopefully these and some Motul fluid will do the trick. We will know next week.

The funny thing is, I've never been real hard on brakes and never had a problem with my 350Z brembos, Stock Corvette brakes or C6 Z06 corvette brakes on the same track. I guess the akebono's are more show than go.

FuszNissan · 10-13-2009, 08:02 PM

That's crazy!

Nikon FM · 10-13-2009, 08:07 PM

So the calipers, pads and fluid are now changed/upgraded from OEM. Any thoughts about the rotors/discs?

Mike · 10-13-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikon FM

So the calipers, pads and fluid are now changed/upgraded from OEM. Any thoughts about the rotors/discs?

I don't really see any reason to upgrade, but I have. I have Rotora slotted rotors. At the first event when my pads wore down to the backing plates, Z1 Motorsports was kind enough to send a driver an hour away to the track to deliver new pads and rear rotors to me, and the Rotora's are what they stocked, so I went ahead and bought the fronts from them also and am finishing that updgrade tomorrow or thursday also.

Mike · 10-13-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

That's crazy!

I know, especially since I've always considered myself easy on brakes and none of my other cars have experienced this. I think its possibly the relatively small pad size for the caliper. I know the brembo pad has almost twice the surface area.

At first I thought the boiling was because the Valvoline synthetic wasn't up to the task, but seeing the dust boots, I have to wonder how darn hot the calipers got. I know that I have tested dust boots in the powdercoating oven and 400 degrees does nothing whatsoever to them.

FuszNissan · 10-13-2009, 08:23 PM

Were both like this or where the fronts worse then the rears. Also I wonder it duct work and better cooling would help, or just better brake fluid and pads??

I wonder if you just have a bad set of boots.

Mike · 10-13-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Were both like this or where the fronts worse then the rears. Also I wonder it duct work and better cooling would help, or just better brake fluid and pads??

I wonder if you just have a bad set of boots.

all 4 were pretty bad, but the rears had 3 semi reusable boots, only one had a tear in it. The fronts only had one decent one, but I still don't think any of them are in good shape. I'm only going to use the 4 ok ones this weekend only, unless my Nissan dealership can get new ones in by thursday.

Here are the brake pads, just for grins!
4 20 minute Road Atlanta sessions and
7 front, 6 rear 20 minute little talladega sessions.

FuszNissan · 10-13-2009, 08:44 PM

Nice! Time to get Endless BBK...lol

Mike · 10-13-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Nice! Time to get Endless BBK...lol

Yea, but I think I will stick with my $1500 brembo upgrade instead!

Red370 · 10-13-2009, 11:21 PM

I'm a fan of Rotora myself, had some 6 pots on my G with some Hawk ceramics, never had any problems.

FuszNissan · 10-14-2009, 07:15 AM

Do you think baking your calipers (painting) had a part in this

Mike · 10-14-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Do you think baking your calipers (painting) had a part in this

Not at all, they are fully disassembled and then reassembled in the process, so the seals and dustboots never see the oven. Plus, the corvette and 350z both had repowdercoated calipers and no problems either.

ResIpsa · 10-14-2009, 09:20 AM

Do you think it is absolutely necessary to have the dust boots? I know that Wilwoods do not have dust boots at all. You just have to make sure you clean everything up after a track session.

I am finally going to get the Z on the track for the first time on October 24. I have ATE fluid and custom Porterfield R4 (the only set in the world!) pads. Hopefully the Porterfields will be able to out perform the HP's.

Do you think I should remove the dust boots before going to the track? There seems to be no point in leaving them in if they are going to turn into black goo.

Mike · 10-14-2009, 09:52 AM

good question. I suppose if you disassembled and cleaned after every event, but I would think the dust would still eventually eat the seals up, especially under track use. I know that some corvette guys run without them though. I really think that most of the problem is that the main track I run on, Little Talladega is very short with no cooling zones. About 12 turns and only 3 small straights on a 1.4 mile course.

bullitt5897 · 10-14-2009, 10:14 AM

Yea Lil Tally is KNOWN for killing your brakes!!! I have seen s2000's loose brake lines on that track! You have such a short time to slow down! I know in the S2000 I was getting up to 110 and having to slow down to 70 to barely make the 1st turn. That was in the dry!!! The 370z did well in the rain I reached 112-113 on every straight and was really LATE on braking lol... Mike I was waiting till the #2 cone to hit the brakes and I was full throttle until #4 cone!!! Needless to say in the rain the sports hold up with stock pads and upgraded brake fluid... but when you change the pads thats a whole new story. I hope to be 115+ in the dry and thats why I have the Alliance BBK coming for me

I need lots of pad area to keep them cool and consistent! I cant wait to see the Brembos mike!

10-13-2009, 07:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2185	Akebonos not up to heavy track use! At least not on a short track like Little Talladega. I mentioned before I boiled the fluid and toasted the stock rear pads in one session at the East Coast Z Nationals when running HP+ up front. I then replaced the rears with HP+, so I was running both on the front and back with valvoline synthetic. I did 1 day at Road Atlanta then one more day at Little Talladega at a time attack, where they boiled again, and today when I pulled them this is what I found on every caliper. Fortunately, I have 4 good dust boots out of the 12, and the seals are all still fine. They should get me through this weekend for the rears, although I will have to have a set of rear brake pads overnited tomorrow for a back up, and then a rebuild kit for the rears before Road Atlanta the following weekend. Anyways, not pictured are the HP+ pads with all of the factory paint burned off of them. This is a picture of one front caliper upon removal today: and this is my solution, the bolt on front Brembo GT Caliper set. Unfortunately, they didn't quite clear my 18" wheels and I had to slightly grind the outer ends of them for clearance, so they are being repowdercoated a satin black tomorrow. Hopefully these and some Motul fluid will do the trick. We will know next week. The funny thing is, I've never been real hard on brakes and never had a problem with my 350Z brembos, Stock Corvette brakes or C6 Z06 corvette brakes on the same track. I guess the akebono's are more show than go. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

10-13-2009, 08:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 541	That's crazy! __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

10-13-2009, 08:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nikon FM Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Snoqualmie WA Posts: 973 Drives: 03 996TT Porsche Rep Power: 606	So the calipers, pads and fluid are now changed/upgraded from OEM. Any thoughts about the rotors/discs? __________________ Buddy Revell: "One man's sooner is another man's later"

10-13-2009, 08:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 541	Were both like this or where the fronts worse then the rears. Also I wonder it duct work and better cooling would help, or just better brake fluid and pads?? I wonder if you just have a bad set of boots. __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

10-13-2009, 08:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 541	Nice! Time to get Endless BBK...lol __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

10-13-2009, 11:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
Red370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Posts: 4,391 Drives: your mom to church Rep Power: 295	I'm a fan of Rotora myself, had some 6 pots on my G with some Hawk ceramics, never had any problems. __________________ 2011 Mustang 5.0 \| 3.55's \| Lethal Performance off road H-Pipe \| Magnaflow Muffler Delete \| JLT CAI/Bama tuned 417whp/ 404 ft/lbs

10-14-2009, 07:15 AM	#11 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 541	Do you think baking your calipers (painting) had a part in this __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

10-14-2009, 09:20 AM	#13 (permalink)
ResIpsa Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 564 Drives: 09 RACING HEN Rep Power: 338	Dust Boots Necessary? Do you think it is absolutely necessary to have the dust boots? I know that Wilwoods do not have dust boots at all. You just have to make sure you clean everything up after a track session. I am finally going to get the Z on the track for the first time on October 24. I have ATE fluid and custom Porterfield R4 (the only set in the world!) pads. Hopefully the Porterfields will be able to out perform the HP's. Do you think I should remove the dust boots before going to the track? There seems to be no point in leaving them in if they are going to turn into black goo. __________________ The Reed Law Firm; Michael Fasano VA Attorney and Counselor at Law: A Virginia Traffic, Criminal, and Family Lawyer.https://reedlawva.com/

10-14-2009, 09:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2185	good question. I suppose if you disassembled and cleaned after every event, but I would think the dust would still eventually eat the seals up, especially under track use. I know that some corvette guys run without them though. I really think that most of the problem is that the main track I run on, Little Talladega is very short with no cooling zones. About 12 turns and only 3 small straights on a 1.4 mile course. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

10-14-2009, 10:14 AM	#15 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	Yea Lil Tally is KNOWN for killing your brakes!!! I have seen s2000's loose brake lines on that track! You have such a short time to slow down! I know in the S2000 I was getting up to 110 and having to slow down to 70 to barely make the 1st turn. That was in the dry!!! The 370z did well in the rain I reached 112-113 on every straight and was really LATE on braking lol... Mike I was waiting till the #2 cone to hit the brakes and I was full throttle until #4 cone!!! Needless to say in the rain the sports hold up with stock pads and upgraded brake fluid... but when you change the pads thats a whole new story. I hope to be 115+ in the dry and thats why I have the Alliance BBK coming for me I need lots of pad area to keep them cool and consistent! I cant wait to see the Brembos mike! __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

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