Nissan 370Z Forum - Stiff Front Sway Bar Thoughts

Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)

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- - Stiff Front Sway Bar Thoughts (http://www.the370z.com/brakes-suspension/121631-stiff-front-sway-bar-thoughts.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeThruHead (Post 4029380)

fwiw
I think adding a hotchkiss front bar for my recent track days did not help understeer at all.

I need more track days with some different bar setups to really tell for sure.
But with stock tires, stock suspension and a hotchkiss front bar: The car was incredibly understeer prone.
Don't think the back stepped out once.
This could be explained away by driver error.

BUUUT. Sway bars are not expensive, and not hard to swap. So might as well have a couple different sets.

Obviously we know from all the actual track drivers, it's a much different story on track with proper track alignment.

Track folks are running 275 or 285 (or more) in front
Nissan increased the front tire width on the new Z (And increased caster)

All this talk about how “stiff front bar still understeers” is missing the point. If you actually wanted to reduce understeer you’d go to the root of the problem

This is like having a leak roof and bitching about how a bucket isn’t stopping the house from getting wet

But if I was building a car for daily canyon driving, on softish springs and PS4S. I think I would end up with a more balanced set of sway bars.

Your stock suspension and stock tired car understeers because that is how Nissan designed the car. You have the same problem as the other dude, you haven’t actually fixed the problem - insufficient front grip

More tire and more camber is the solution

No sway bar is gonna fix the issue

Quote:

If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose

No, stiff front bar will do the opposite, it will amplify understeer, not oversteer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029387)

That is incorrect. Rear sway bar will fix the issue, although just partly. The real solution is to also add the option to adjust front camber and set it between -1.5 and -2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029375)

So many ******* things wrong about this post, where do I start?

Street racing isn’t condoned here, and for normal daily driving who gives a **** about sway bar balance? At normal speeds, it doesn’t matter, you aren’t getting groceries any quicker.

A good coilovers setup won’t be “overly stiff” - the whole ******* point of spending money on coilovers to get adjustable height and damping AND better quality springs and dampers which are matched to each other AND YOUR INTENDED DRIVING STYLE. if you don’t know how to pick a good coilovers, there should be a suspension shop or manufacturer competent enough to do it for you

Adjusting camber with bushings and drop springs isn’t adjusting camber at all, you’re just randomly getting whatever spec is the side effect of lowering the car.

An adjustable front arm, specifically the SPL one, isn’t a “stiff setup’, it doesn’t affect stiffness at all. Maybe more feedback front replacing a bushing that may be worn, and going from rubber to metal, but the point is to be able to set your camber or caster to whatever you need.

Furthermore, the original post is from 2017. This thread has very clearly turned in a more track oriented discussion, YOU decided to weigh in with a perspective clearly limited in understanding of how suspension parts work and your own limitations as a driver

If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose

You make too many assumptions, you introduce coilovers into the discussion now while also making the point about my indended driving style. That is all I did in my previous messages which was to share MY experience with MY setup and MY driving style and you and a few others seem to have their knickers all twisted up about it. Now you want to critizise my camber setup. If I have no intention of going beyond -2 for front camber (which I dont) and a drop in spring height got me most of the way there and bushes I was doing anyway(for no other reason other to improve feel) got me the remaining -0.5 I will hapilly take it with money saved.

Oh and you say I am limited in understanding of how suspension parts work? Which you followed up with a dumb statement like

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029375)

If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose

:confused: Not how it works sorry to say and pretty sure Ive been refering to understeer the whole time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029375)

So the thing you cite is….a racing authority that runs closed road events? And from YouTube videos, it sure looks like it has a shitload of high end cars that are running better than your lowering spring and bushing setup.

Again not sure what my setup has to do with this? Am I competing am I? again MY setup suited to MY driving and MY roads, you have no clue about that and the point of the videos was to illustrate that with the type of roads we have down here which are not ideal on a stiff setup.

Your ignorance and attitude is not worth anymore of my time on this discussion. Good day to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionZero (Post 4029386)

Seriously?

Yes. You have the social skills of a chainsaw that ran out of Copenhagen two days ago.

The stupidity in this thread is off the chart.

So for anyone who is STOCK tire/suspension/alignment, hotchkis front bar isn’t helping your understeer and is probably too stiff.

TRACK tire/alignment/suspension, hotchkis front bar seems like the favorite.

If you’re somewhere in between stock and track setup, then driver preference, driving style, and car end goal most likely dictate which bar you like best. Try a few bars and see what u like. Figure it out on your own.

So we all leave it at that and end of story right? Lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sway bar controls/restricts lateral weight transfers. It’s not a one size fits all. Driver’s skill, understanding, spring rate, tire size and compound, camber (and the subsequent camber curve) all work toward a result.

Too much weight transfer too quickly (disconnect the front sway), lateral momentum from the direction change will overwhelm the front tires, cause understeer.

Too little weight transfer (bar uber stiff but without grippier tire), then the outer front tire doesn’t get enough downward push, and you can get understeer as well. This is where skills and understanding comes in.

Someone that well versed trail braking and keep weight to the front, pushing the front down while changing direction, left foot brake to manipulate weight transfer during mid corner acceleration, a stiffer bar probably does great even with stock suspension. (Who was the member that drove for motoIQ, forgot his name…)

But for mortals that can’t dissect every milliseconds on the fly while going thru corners at triple digits, results will vary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129 (Post 4029432)

Too little weight transfer (bar uber stiff but without grippier tire), then the outer front tire doesn’t get enough downward push, and you can get understeer as well.

Not trying to keep this thread going for no reason (although this one is probably immortal), but to clarify with a stiffer bar, the outside tire is getting MORE downward push. Sway bar transfers load from the inside to the outside tire, resulting in more uneven load distribution. So ideally you’d want as little sway bar as possible so you get the most even load distribution between tires… =max grip

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyZ (Post 4029392)

Yes. You have the social skills of a chainsaw that ran out of Copenhagen two days ago.

I just about spit my drink out reading this. :rofl2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Averying (Post 4029444)

Exactly and if you are undertired in size, compound and camber you will reach its limits and understeer. The wet will be even worse which is why some even disconnect sway bars and soften springs at the track (in general not sure about 370z)

I'm currently still tuning my Koni/swift setup and with the whiteline in soft (35% stiffer) -2.0 camber and jumping up from 50% firmer damping to 75% up front it is feeling much more direct and no push as with the stiffer bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Averying (Post 4029444)

Just so I interpret correctly on “inside” and “outside”, for example…

In a right hand turn (steering wheel turning right), right front would be inside, left front would be outside?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129 (Post 4029454)

Just so I interpret correctly on “inside” and “outside”, for example…

In a right hand turn (steering wheel turning right), right front would be inside, left front would be outside?

Inside should be the side of the car nearest to the corner.

You can write a book on suspension tuning and modification and people have. It's not something you can merely cover in a few sentences in a post. Read up on it, cv129 as posted the best concise explanation so far. But if you really want to know and educate yourself read a book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 4029447)

I just about spit my drink out reading this. :rofl2:

:iagree: