Looks nice but whats the camber on the front ones?? are you planning for the front camber kit?

I felt the car a bit slower when installed spacers on my G:icon14:

Wider stance. Don't you remember those old car commercials? Wider is betterrr!

It has a camber kit... the front was like -2.6 or something along those lines.

I'm looking at spacers to fix the ridiculous look of my rear winter rims (way too sunken in). While 25mm would be ideal for the winter rims, I'd like to use the spacers for my 19" Rays in the warmer months. I'm guessing that 25mm on the rear and no spacers up front with the Rays will look stupid? Any thoughts?

I could go 20mm rear, which would at least be some improvement in the winter and ideal in the summer. Don't really want to install front spacers though...

I don't think it would look stupid. I ran w/20's in the back and none in the front for 3 months. Looks good to me.

Something to consider if you go with H&R spacer, that’s if it makes any difference.

25 mm spacers will be bolt on.
20 mm spacers will require stud replacement.

Would the handling be off from such a staggered stance from the OEM setup? I have heard of a squared off stance or with a 5-10 mm difference from the front to rear.

RCZ, that stance is sick man. Looking good! I did want to ask if the car handles [noticeably] better with your camber set up?

I just lowered my car about 1" all around and I wanna know if anyone has done 25mm spacers in the rear. I like RCZ's setup, but I think it could go out a wee bit more both in the front and in the rear. I was thinking about doing 20mm front/25mm rear. What do you think? Would it stick out too far? If anyone's got 25mm spacers in the rear with the 19" Rays with pics, that would be great! :tup:

Mike has 25mm in the rear, check out his garage or posts. I still have not installed my 25mm rears. Although I heard 20mm in the front will rub. Seems 15mm is the one to go with for fronts. Note these sizes are for the 19" sport rims.

Mike has them, but Mike has different wheels. It looks great in his case, but I think 25 rear on the stock 19s will push the tires outside the fenders. If you like that 4X4 look, then awesome, but I love the flush with the fender look. Also remember, my front look a little sunk only because of the negative camber. If I had less aggressive camber, It would look pretty flush. I can definitely get you guys a good deal through the connections I made when getting mine, so if anyone is serious about buying a set, let me know.

RC is a great guy to deal with!! I've been back and forth with him on my set-up for over a week. He's been very patient and full of info. He has also hooked me up with a pretty darn good price. Give him a shot if you are interested.

Thanks man, your car is going to be so ridiculous when you install all that stuff! You don't even know whats coming. If it doesn't put a smile on your face when you drive it, money back guarantee!

but my wheels are nismo wheels with the exact same offsets and specs as the factory wheels.

Oh yeah? I could have sworn they were lower offset than the 19's.

Wait..which factory wheels are you talking about?

Good thread. I am going to be ordering the 15/20 H&Rs myself. RCZ, your car looks sick!

19" Nismo S-tunes and 19" sport wheels.

^ well Mike, your car looked pretty good when I saw the pictures. I still gotta say I dont like wheels and tires coming out past the fender line.

I agree, but mine are tucked. I was happy with the look of 20s, but not happy that the original studs protruded about 1/2mm and kept the wheels from fully seating.

http://www.the370z.com/members/mike-...17-spacer1.jpg

http://www.the370z.com/members/mike-...19-spacer2.jpg

http://www.the370z.com/members/mike-...18-spacer3.jpg

^^ So Mike, those wheels in the picture have the exact same offset as the 19" Rays wheels? And what size spacers are you running in the front? If you've got 15mm, do you think 20mm would be too much? I'm either going with 15mm front/20mm rear or even better I'm thinking about 20mm front/25mm rear. What do you think? :confused:

Yes, from Nissan's site:
■Lightweight forged aluminum-alloy
■19" x 9.0" +47mm offset (front); 19" x 10.0" +30mm offset (rear)

and the owners manual for the 19s:
Front: 19 x 9J 1.85 (47)
Rear: 19 x 10J 1.18 (30)

20s would probably fit fine in front, but I am happy with 15s in front.

Mike I thought you had 20 front 25 rear?

no, just 15s in front. I had 20s rear originally, but they didn't work out due to the clearance issue, and I had ichiba 15s originally, but the hubcentric rings weren't deep enough for the nismo's, so I switched to 15 H&Rs

I do have a set of 15mm type 1 with studs and 20mm type 2 ichibas available for cheap if anyone wants them. The outsides are also powdercoated satin black so they don't stand out.

At this point, I can't figure out what you sizes you guys are actually running right now... :icon14:

Can we consolidate with each of you posting your current setup?

Mike
Sport 19s (or same as)
15mm type 1 H&R front
25mm type 2 Ichiba rear

Sport 19s
15mm H&R Trak+ DRS Front
20mm H&R Trak+ DRS Rear

You can go 20mm all around, no rubbing even with lowering springs. This is using Eibach System-6 spacers which have the pressed-in studs and are installed within minutes:

http://eibach.com/eibach/img/prod_prospacerlrg.jpg

There is just a slight issue on the front wheels (speaking about the 19" OEM wheels). The OEM studs are a few milimeters too long and hit a spot where the pocket is not equaly deep. It can easily be corrected:

Installed images.

Mike and RCZ, did you notice your cars being more "tail happy" after the spacer install? From what I have heard and read, increasing rear track width relative to the front will increase oversteer. Mike increased the rear by 10mm, RCA by 5mm relative to the front.

I just ordered H&R 15mm front and 20mm rear, both DRS.

That's what it should do.

I brought the car home from the dealership when I bought it, raised it in the air and swapped out wheels, springs, sways and put spacers on, so I have no idea how the car was stock. Also, I run the same size tires all around on the track, and yes, the car is very tail happy, but I want it that way.

I have a custom alignment, different tires, sways and a different suspension. Also I installed sways at the same time as spacers, so I have no idea. The car is pretty tail happy though, I haven't taken it to the track with the new setup yet.

Sport 19's
15mm H&R Trak+ DRS Front
25mm H&R Trak+ DRM Rear


Eibach springs
SPC Rear Camber Kit
Stock tires

Still waiting to install them.

So guys, with this setup I understand the rear is tail happy with understeer. Which sways would you recommend (Stillen ??) with Eibach springs and would sways correct the understeer and bring it back to a OEM setting or even better feel? Forgive me if I sound naive on the sway setup and function I am still learning this.

^ What kind of alignment do you have? The front-to-rear camber ratio is a big factor on the behavior of the car. I can't assume you have stock settings because you will be lowered and have only the rear camber kit. If I had to speculate and you did you alignment right, the front camber should end up around -1.5 and the rear can be adjusted to -1.2 or so. Assuming thats the case, you should have a little bit of understeer with that 10mm spacer offset you created.

I would say that adding Stillen swaybars would balance out the car nicely. If you want more control, you should get an adjustable bar setup such as the hotchkis.

There are a lot of "ifs" in there though. Make sure you get an alignment after everything is installed. Since you aren't going to gain THAT much negative camber in the front, I'd say keep the rear within .3 degrees closer to 0 than the front.

Others might have other suggestions, but thats what I would aim for..

I think you are confusing understeer with oversteer. Understeer is "tight" and oversteer is "loose."

Aftermarket sways are going to be stiffer than stock. A stiffer rear bar is going to free up the rear of the car adding some oversteer depending on how big of a bar you go with. A stiffer front bar will tighten the front of the car up and can induce understeer if you go too stiff -- it's all about finding the right balance.

Someone mentioned tailhappy and understeer as a result of these spacers. How is this possible?

Also, don't spacers hurt the wheel bearings, i.e. the wheel bearings wear out much faster? I like the look, but don't want to negatively affect the factory maintenance intervals.

^that someone was a little confused.

Granted you CAN have a car that swings from understeer to oversteer all over the place and depending on the situation. Thats usually the result of a very poorly setup car...or a car thats not meant to be getting into understeer/oversteer situations.

Spacers dont do that. Depending on how much wider you go in the rear than in the front, you may induce a little understeer, but you wont kill the handling.

I am sure many of you have seen this site, it is also quoted by a lot of other performance sites:

http://krausracing.com/pages/info/Ov...er%20Steer.pdf

This is what I get confused on, and hopefully some of you with a lot more knowledge and track experience can help. Under "Oversteer Corrections" (reduce oversteer), it lists "Install wider rear tires" and "Install wider rear wheels" as solutions to reduce oversteer. It also lists "Reduce rear track" ........ If widening the rear tires and/or the rear wheels will reduce oversteer, why would "reducing the rear track" do the same? I would think "widening the rear track" would reduce oversteer. Doesn't a wider wheel or wider rear tires also widen the track? :confused:

John

Umm widening the rear track refers to pushing the wheels further away from each other. When you do that, and its hard to explain, it increases understeer because the rear track now has comparatively more resistance to weight shifting and to losing traction than the narrower front. Think of it in a more extreme case where you increased the rear track by a foot. It becomes harder to rotate the rear compared to the narrower front and that causes grip to be lost in the front first...understeer. I hope people with the technical term for this phenomenon will chime in with some real physics to explain it. I know it does and how it feels, but I could use a lesson here too. **paging ChrisSlicks**

Widening the rear tires will reduce oversteer simply because of the physical grip generated by a larger contact patch.

Widening the rear track does not equal widening the rear tires at all. Do the tires on cars with wider wheels than our stock wheels stick out the side of the fenders? Nope, they usually end flush with the fender...

Widening the rear track DOES reduce oversteer AND thereby increases understeer. (Don't yell at me track guys, I know that isn't completely true, but for the sake of keeping things simple...)

Just think about it this way... understeer is when the front tires grip less than the rears. Oversteer is when the rear tires grip less than the fronts.

For example, racecars tend to run more negative camber in the front because that increases corner grip up front and thereby reduces understeer. In theory, they could also run a narrower rear track to induce oversteer, but you wouldnt want to do that because you would be sacrificing available grip.

"Widening the rear track DOES reduce oversteer AND thereby increases understeer. (Don't yell at me track guys, I know that isn't completely true, but for the sake of keeping things simple...)"

This is exactly what I thought, which led me to believe the article I hotlinked was wrong when it said reducing the rear track would reduce oversteer.

Well, I would say those guys definitely know way more than I do, so I may very well be wrong. I was driving around with only a front spacer installed for a couple days when I did my install and the car was definitely more tail happy. Like TC flickering all over the place. Now that I have everything rounded off, I only see it flicker when I do something silly on purpose.

Then again..I and all the other folks here who said wider rear track = more understeer could be wrong. They list widening front track to lower understeer... then narrowing rear for reducing oversteer sounds a little odd.

I don't mind being corrected if it isnt the case though....anyone?

OK, I tried to get the final answer, but I failed... One thing I remember is that when the Ferrari F50 was introduced, the magazines wrote that the rear track width was narrower then the front to reduce over steer! But when I looked up "trackwidth" and "over steer" now, I found this: Automotive suspension engineering - Front/rear track width effects These guys seem to know what they are talking about but still no clear conclusion. One thing I can personally confirm is: Go-karts are "tail happy" (tend to over steer) and their rear track is wider then the front track width. So that might be why I lean more to "wider rear track width = over steer"