School me on turning FI car?
 

Can someone school me some basics on FI tuning. Not just the simple mapping but other hardware recommended/needed. Please pretend I don't know anything about FI and start from there. Like if I just bought a BP kit and installed it. What else should I get/need to get her running right? What rec guges, where is the best place to hook them up, (like connect to engine,electrical, not placement in cabbin), why they are rec., what brand of xxx is good (gauges, controllers, ecu).

Thanks for your time.

Do you mean all of the supporting mods, or just tuning and monitoring? Gauges will come down to personal preference as far as type as long as you don't get some Prosport garbage. As far as which gauges, boost and AFR are the bare minimum. As far as where you hook them up, boost will take a reference off a pressurized part of the intake tract like the manifold. AFR will either use your OEM O2 sensors or an additional one.

"Do you mean all of the supporting mods, or just tuning and monitoring? Gauges will come down to personal preference as far as type as long as you don't get some Prosport garbage. As far as which gauges, boost and AFR are the bare minimum."

both and everything. School me like if everything is Greek. It's understood that what gauges to use/get is personal but from a person that don't know jack, how and where do I find out what I "think" I want?

I'm just researching as My car id still under warranty but I think it end this year hence my research on boost. So Far I'm digging BP but I might go custom from either a buddy's buddy or Jtranz.

Thank Chuck, please enlighten me some more.

http://www.the370z.com/forced-induct...ion-noobs.html

Start here.
Besides the kit itself, whichever you choose, you will need cooling upgrades for items such as oil & radiator, gauges per what chuck said, along with possibly clutch/flywheel/csc, and after that you start to fall into the not 100% required category. Things such as, vented hood & fender liner, meth/water injection, e85 fuel (requires additional fuel components).

Dreamer's got it.

As a generality, you want a clutch/flywheel/csc, radiator, oil cooler, boost gauge and AFR gauge. You'll need a boost controller of some type for a turbo kit. Manual vs electronic is a whole thread on its own.

As for what type of gauges/monitoring, how deep is your wallet? I went with a Defi boost gauge and Innovate wideband on the A pillar, so it was fairly economical. You can go nuts here. Dreamer's setup is awesome, but I can't imagine it being cheap to replicate.

And not to crap on anybody's buddy or something like that, but go with a kit that has had its kinks worked out. Whether that's BP or a local shop, don't be a guinea pig.

:iagree:
While a "custom" setup might be nice, one that has shown its ability and quality is a better option than be a test subject. BP has a very high quality kit and fantastic customer service, I believe there is a kit coming to Houston soon also.

There is. I'll be assisting on the install in the next couple of weeks.

If I can stop by I might try that, curious to see the kit, in final wedding mode so not a lot of free time.
Going to be some good FI builds in Houston with the 370z platform.

Can't see why that would be an issue. You might get put to work.

:icon18:
I will just stalk from my car with binoculars.

http://cdn.arwrath.com/9/99049.gif

And OP, everything I said is really for a turbo application. The boost gauge isn't as critical on a SC since your boost level is determined by pulley size and not subject to as much of the variance a turbo is.

A safe assumption is you'll spend very nearly as much on supporting mods, install and tuning as the kit cost. Budget that much, and if you come in under so much the better. You don't want to get caught short and have to cut corners somewhere. It's such a slippery slope once you get into something like this. You'll spend a fortune on things that you might as well swap out "while you're in there".

I kinda resent that statement since I'm the G BP install guinea pig :rofl2:

Dude come on by. We'll likely be at it for three straight weekends getting everything correct.

Truer words never spoken. Just think of the kit purchase as half your entry price. Now with the BP kit you get a little relief cause it comes with complete oil cooler setup. Not to mention Sasha gives you everything you need to install except your common tools.

Well the kit is solid on the 370z and honestly the fitment should not be that much different for the G. Well wedding is not until April 4 but every weekend is mostly full of meetings and final planning items. We were both talking that we should have just ran off and got married in Vegas, party, gamble, have fun, and be done with it quickly. Plus save all the cash...

I'm all for saving the money on the big blow out wedding and putting it toward something you will ues.

As for timing your good, we aren't starting the tear down until mid-April

I have read all of those stickies and more.. I actually have went back far enough on the FI forum that's I have read 10 pages past the original BP build. I have clicked and read about 15 or 16 turbo builds from the consolidated sticky Dreamer made.

I'm thinking I need more hands on or more direct education on the subject. Maybe I can get my buddy to walk me through it one day or maybe have a look at JWICK's bp install with permission? BP is my #1 choice right now and have been since I read his build a month and a half ago.

I'm looking for Turbo more so than SC and have only read maybe 5 of those builds.

Well, just start throwing out specific questions. There are enough of us with enough pieces of the puzzle to hopefully clear things up for you.

Or you can do it from home!
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...pse034bd91.jpg

I need more info on the tuning side of things and what is needed to tune the system and stuff. The "to get list" as I have it is FI 2.5'' cbe, BP 2xscroll turbo, Southbend clutch flywheel combo kit (not sure on which one yet), ss break line kit and that's all for now. Car will be a DD so I'm not looking for stupid power. Just enough omph to kick butt and have LOTs of FUN!

I have a list somewhere of all the little things your missing. Send it after lunch.

Brake lines won't do anything other than make the pedal firmer. They work great for that, but do exactly **** for stopping distance and fade resistance.

You need to start thinking about heat management. You get the oil cooler with the kit, but you should spring for the radiator. That leads to a thermostat, and silicone hoses since you're already draining the system. Then a **** ton of header wrap and a turbo blanket.

Boost and AFR gauges at minimum, add EGT, oil pressure and water temp if you're going nuts.

A boost controller of some type. I've got a manual, which works fine and is cheap. Electronic ones are better, and which one is the best it its own can of worms.

Your tuner will have more to add as far as the specifics of your tune. You'll get a base map that's plenty safe and makes good power, but thou shalt get a custom dyno tune from someone who has done multiple FI Zs.

Totally agree with the ss line. I just didn't want to spend the $$ on pads or roters yet. I want to use my stock until they die.

I was thinking of getting a new Rad too but I don't see many post of people getting aftermarket ones. which one and why should I get that one (other than it cools better). What about fan/shroud/ect??

Why do I need new hoses (although cheap compared to the rest of the things)? Don't the OEM work?

What is a EGT? How do boost controller work? All I know is that they open to let out "excess" pressure from the boost so that you maintain a specific and constant air pressure to the engine or do I have it mixed up? How do you control this?

I was thinking Jtranz to tune since he is local.

I'm not trying to be "cheap" per say, but $$ matters and I'm trying to see if FI is even plausible for the $$ I want to spend. I'm just being realistic. Sure I can afford it but do I want it "That bad," that is the question.

CSF is really the only option. GTM is having issues, and Mishimoto is ******** Chinese garbage not fit for a primered out civic with a fart can. That, and having your tuner adjust your fan duty cycle will likely take care of your temp issues. The lines will never wear out or bust like rubber, and they're a drop in the bucket as a percentage of the overall build cost and the install for the radiator lends itself to the swap.

EGT is exhaust gas temperature. Too hot and you can melt something. A lean condition raises EGTs. It's not necessary, but again, you can go as nuts with gauges as your wallet can handle.

You boost level will either be controlled by the wastegate spring, which is the least boost you can run, or the controller which lets you run more than the wastegate spring. It'll "fool" the wastegate into opening when you want it to, not when the spring tells it to. A smart man has their tuner set this and doesn't mess with it.

At the end of the day, if you're not DIYing this, a turbo Z is probably going to run you $15k between parts, labor and tuning. It's a pretty steep cost of entry. That being said, it's absolutely worth it. This car really takes to boost. The chassis has no issues handling the power. It feels like it should have come from the factory this way.

Man $15k is a LOT!!!! I could almost pay my car off with that much. Humm... I was hoping for more of $10k for FI excluding my time spent to install the things I can install. I was actually thinking I could buy me a newish sport bike or boost my DD.

Well, the kit will be $7500ish. The clutch/flywheel/csc is another $1200-1500. $500ish for gauges. $600 for a radiator. Another $100ish to recharge the AC after you install it. Another $2-500 for random stuff- header wrap, etc. $500-700 for the dyno tune. $100-700+ for a boost controller. We're right around $12k and we haven't addressed shipping or labor to install everything, which will probably be $1500-2k. Do you already own the exhaust? If not, another $1200 or so.

This **** snowballs fast.

YOUR knowledge is killing me fast!!! lol

I don't have the exhaust but it's my next mod. I been trying to go and listen to various exhaust locally and many said yeah, but no one seems to commit to meeting up. Ohh well..

Man.. and I have another problem too. I wan tot go back to school.. DOH!!! Humm..

Lets go back tot eh OG intent of this thread, knowledge.

Can you elaborate or the things we already have posted? Any info on why, how, which one(s), to look into. OR do you have a good link I can go to and read up?

Thanks

Again, throw out a specific question and we can try to answer it. We don't know what you don't know.

Hum... Let's just say I have correctly installed the BP kit, southbend stuff, and rad. What is next? Install AFR/boost gauges? How? How exactly do I get my car to run properly with this new set up? base map? How do I use it (as in install?).

You would want the clutch installed before the kit so you can break it in. The gauges should be installed at the same time as the rest of the kit. The boost gauge usually is fed from a tap on the intake manifold. For the wideband you have an extra bung welded on the post-turbo piping and you put the new O2 sensor there. The kit comes with an Uprev cable, and you use that to install the map. You can drive on the base map just fine until you take it to a tuner.

The heck is a "wideband"? I recall reading from BP build that some did not tap the manifold and used some kind of metal block manifold for hoses of some sort.

A wideband is an oxygen sensor. It's what's on the other end of the AFR gauge. You could choose to run a vacuum block, but you'll likely still have to tap the manifold for the "in" to the vacuum block. You've got to get a pressure reading from somewhere. The block is just a cleaner way to run the vacuum lines so you don't have a bunch of T fittings everywhere.

Where does this uprev cable connect? The same place as the obd2? Do I need to hook a PC or laptop to it and run a program?

Will a FI car still pass inspection in TX?

You plug it into the OBD port and use their software on your laptop. A car in TX passes inspection if it doesn't have any CELs.

heres what I have, it is not all needed, I did not do a rad tho, technically you could slap the BP kit on and go but it is not ideal IMO.

BP kit was 7500
clutch/csc 1200
gauges(AEM failsafe read boost and AFR, also did oil pressure and ATI center cubby pod) 500
Z1 engine and trans mounts 300
whiteline diff bushings 100
I was already tuned NA, so my retune will be less but RT is about 700 or 800 for a FI tune, but I have a license already, I will only pay dyno time.

I have other upgrades buy they do not pertain to boost. I also work in a shop and do all my own labor. I am going to run with the OE rad for now, but I will most likely make some bumper modifications to improve air flow.

It is sounding like adding FI to your Z is probably not in your best financial interest. A couple of things to note:

- You should not consider boosting a NA factory car if you are still paying a note
- Although it should be pretty reliable, it's a boosted NA factory car. You are going to have things break.
- If you want to go back to school, that's where your money is best spent. You can always buy toys later.
- Make sure that on top of your $12-15k spent on the kit, you have another $4-6k sitting around in the event you pop a motor.

Pretty good list and mine is similar. I would say that the upgraded radiator is a must cuz he lives here in Houston. Get's real hot here and traffic is horrible.

Agreed, it would suck to be making payments on a broken car if something happens.
Maintenance is paramount, and you need to be able to fix minor issues on your own,
Better toys.
Yep. A "**** happened" fund is a necessity.

my thoughts exactly jwick but that don't mean I i can't still want and can window shop. I'm not adamant on going fi, it just sound cool and fun. It's also not a priority either.delayed gratification sucks at times.

Ohh I forgot to add that the research and knowledge gain in itself is fun.

Agreed and we are more than willing to answer whatever questions you have. I've done a lot of research over the months preparing myself as much as I can but know there is still much to learn.