ECU ; stock ECU Vs Nismo ECU difference & PRO Cable capabilities
 

So, I just logged back on my Uprev cable (Pro activated)
and with those new features that Uprev added before Christmas, I decided to enjoy it a little bit.

We can download every Rom available as long as you write it down properly.

So I copied a Rom from a Nismo and to my surprise, the VVEL on both stock & Nismo were the exact same....

then I compared some other setting and the difference are minor....
there is the VHR timing 1 & 2 which are a new table t play with and it was very similar but less aggressive on the Nismo. like half a point at some aera (similar to fuel compensation but on the Ign timing side)

everything on the LEFT SIDE IS a stock *normal Ecu*
everything on the RIGHT SIDE is a NISMO Ecu

http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...l-vs-nismo.jpg

http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...l-vs-nismo.jpg


edit;
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...ign-timing.jpg

What does this mean for stupid people like myself?

down lower yourself like that !!...


this is mostly for those who wanted to know if the VVEL setting were different on the Nismo.
As far as I can tell,, they are the same but some different AFR target at higher RPM and lower Ign timing on the Nismo at the very top RPM powerband.

The idle rpm is very different !!
then there is a very minor difference on the cooling setting





sorry the picture didn't came up very nice ,,, I guess the370z.com doesn't like 1080 picture .. hehe

Interesting. The only thing that was super noticeable (to me) was the idle targets. I wouldn't mind mine being as high as the nismos.

neat. thanks!!

So the nismo's leaner and less timing up top? Anyone ever really back to back dyno the two? The WRX has 265 and the STI has 305. Dyno them and you get about a 10hp difference. Tune both and there is no difference. I bet this is something similar.

from what I can see, yup ... its about .44 afr leaner and about 2-3deg. less ign timing pts than a stock 370z.

probably due to a different exhaust, who knows......:confused:

uprev have any maps on the vvel position yet? is that what they are calling vvel timing? in which case is it supposed to be vvel lift in duty cycle or percentage of opening?

There is 6 Map for the VVEL, each of them does something different and at looking at the graph we can finish by understanding a little bit more what does what ....

I am writing over those picture about MY opinion on it , I could be wrong or right. There hasn't been much info provided in the PRO email that Uprev sends their update. I am NOT an official PRO Tuner so its been a bit hard getting a bit more info on the subject other than their email update. Jared did respond when available though....

I haven't asked any specific details on those new available map since late last year (2013) So take what I write down with a gain of salt please.

Lets start with the first one.

VVEL Valve Clearance Limit
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...ance-limit.jpg


VVEL A
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...75151-vvel.jpg


VVEL B
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...152-vvel-b.jpg


VVEL C
This graph look a lot to what I was logging when I had my VHR engine.
Depending how you setup your Cam Advance , I'm pretty sure this map could be setup quite more aggressively to act similar as a fixed cam.
On this map the VVEL is set low at mid-rev then open up at 4800
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...153-vvel-c.jpg


VVEL D
This map looks like a MAF Table but with the VVEL?
it does have to react very quickly at WOT or high RPM.
Which mean I might not be to far off !
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...154-vvel-d.jpg


VVEL Intake Phasing
Cam Advance is reduced while the VVEL opening up ! make sense....
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...ke-phasing.jpg

Uprev Pro
 

This is something an aggressive bolt-on/custom and loud setup might want to look at. The stock Knock sensor are very sensitive and can be trigged by outside noise than an actual Ping/Knock

Knock Thresholds
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...thresholds.jpg



There is 3 different Map for every MAP (5 total using the cruise bottom)
Cold / Main / High Det.
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...ck-windows.jpg


VHR Timing Correction
This is the setting that every Tuner/Pro Cable should have got since the beginning.
From the Uprev Email Update, There is 2 map call VHR Timing Correction and they act similar to the Fuel compensation
10pts is about 1 actual degree from what I can remember on that email
and Negative Number can be added (very nice feature for the FI peoples, according to Uprev.)
http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...ection-1-2.jpg


EDIT ; This is a copy paste of the email sent on 16 Nov 2013

Hello all,

As many of you have noticed, there are some new tables being added to the latest VHR ROMs labeled "VHR Timing Target". The label is going to be changed to "VHR Timing Correction" in the next release since that better describes what these tables represent. These new tables work very much like the "Fuel Correction" tables except they change the ignition, meaning that increasing the values will increase timing and decreasing the values will decrease the timing (you CAN run negative values in these tables to reduce the timing for forced induction). We found that these new tables have a greater effect on the actual timing run compared to the older "burn time" tables that we've been using since before VVEL came along. Using these new tables we were able to get the advance on our test 370Z up to 32 DBTDC and make an additional 8WHP. Using the old tables we could not get the ignition above 28 DBTDC. Although these tables are more effective they are at the same time LESS sensitive. It takes about 10 points in the table to get a 1 degree change in timing advance. We will be working on adding these new tables to real time tuning over the next several months, but for now they are being made available as static tables.
You may also notice that the VHR ROMs have a "knock threshold" table, and new knock logging parameters. The knock threshold table represents the knock sensor sensitivity by RPM. Decreasing the values will make the knock sensor more sensitive and vise versa. The knock strength parameter works much like it does on the older ECUs.

We've also launched a "ROM dump" web page that we'll now be using to capture ROM dumps and vehicle information. We'll no longer be accepting ROM dumps via the ROMs@UpRev.com email. If you email a ROM dump to us we'll just refer you to the new page. This new method should reduce ROM patch turnaround time and make it easier for everyone. You can find it at this link:

http://www.uprev.com/romDump.html

- Jared

There is one nice new feature *maybe a few months old since I haven't touch my cable for a while*
Brake / Throttle Limiter
If it does what I think, you could now be able to do a burn out without having to remove the brake fuse !
another way of using it is on the track and trail braking !

http://www.the370z.com/members/megan...off-option.jpg

Megan370,

Great thread. It is very refreshing to see this stuff explained with screen shots no less. For us consumers that are looking for a tuning suite but, are still on the fence this is the type of information that is needed for an informed decision.

I wish we had more like this from the guys in the know. :tup:

Great info man , read was great keep the info coming
Can't wait for more info . :)

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting your finds!

Thanks Megan! :tup:

great information, could you tell us if the nismo map has same or different throttle map? :)

Nice! I haven't opened up my rom editor in a while, I hope Tuner has the Brake/Throttle limiter option when I do :)

yes from the 2 files I compared, they both share the same throttle table map.

Hi,

Thanks for sharing. May I know how the VHR Timing Correction work with the main ignition tables?

if you read the green part that I wrote down ( copy / paste ) of the email between me and Jared (Uprev)
You should understand and that would give an answer to your question.


from what I can understand is our Ignition Table we were using in the pass work more like a Timing Target Table similar too the AFR target Table.
and the new VHR Timing correction act like the fuel compensation.

they had a much better control if/or absolute control over the IGN timing with the new table added.


In my opinion the new VHR Timing correction table should have been available since the very beginning because I always complained about the current (now old) Ign timing table to not exactly do what I wanted over and over.


I hope this answer your question .

Quick question, the roms that i have (old) do i now have to get new VHR roms in order to have this applied? I have tuner version.

I'm not sure if I understand correctly your question,


Are you saying you have the tuner version, meaning you have the tuner cable and your Rom that you flashed into your car ?
If this is the case, update the Rom editor, open it up then look at your ROM if you can see the new table. Then adjust it on the dyno ;)


the new table is not new by itself, its always been hidden in the Rom but Uprev didn't found it until last year which they gave us access to.

I have no idea if the new Table can be viewed by the Tuner cable or not. I would assume you could.

I just havent had the chance to play with it lately thats why i asked. Cuz i saw u say VHR rom, thats why i assumed i had to get new roms or something thats why i asked, but wasnt sure if that update is the only thing that is needed. Ty

ok,,, you just need to do an Uprev update... your *old* rom is still the right one.
Let me know if you can see the new Table ;)

FYI, this was in there in Tuner, and it really made a difference in my brake/throttle transitions last weekend at COTA (I still suck at them, but at least the car isn't the problem anymore!).

I was wondering about timing table main btw 2400-2800 rpm why is there such timing drop then pick up @ 3200 and so on. Is that where the throttle lag was reported, if i smooth out that curve will it be gone??

That's your idle/cruising area which will affect your fuel consumption. and it's not part of your throttle lag issue peoples talk sometimes.

a far as smoothing it out, I don't want to maybe look mean but I'm not here to give tip for tuning on anybody cars...
Hope you understand.

Its when i floor it, there is like wft? Where's the torque? Which happens at those rpms and then torque is back again @3k rpm

a good tune in the lower rpm will fix most of that problem ;)

WOW Thanks you !!!!

I'm g37 tuner version

Can't see the new table;;;

How did I miss this thread?!!

This is incredibly useful info -- thanks for sharing!

Megan, is the Brake/Throttle limiter only on the protuner cable? Also, did it work as you thought, negating the need to pull the brake fuse for burnouts?

Also, any new insights into VVEL tuning in general?

there is somebody who tried the Brake/Throttle limiter and said it has worked for him.

He said he had the Tuner version.

last, Nothing new on the VVEL.

Hmm -- awesome. I will have to look into this -- thanks! :tup:

Yeah I tried it, it works with normal Tuner and does what I expected it to do (not cut throttle when brakes applied on a road-course). I have no idea if that also lets you do a burnout on the brakes, but I would think so.

Hmm. Just tried latest update and no menu for Brake/Throttle limiter.

Maybe only for pro after all?

I'm pretty sure I have a tuner version -- am I missing something obvious?

Although I did see VHR correction maps, which I don't recall being there before...

what is your ROM number ? I will look it up with the Pro cable.

1TG0A

Thanks! :tiphat:

as of now they haven't included Brake/Throttle limiter into that ROM yet.


sorry ,,



quick edit; they might do it faster if you email them directly (Jared) and ask about this option.