Cobb AccessPort for 370Z!

Denny McLain

AJ

Being you're in the business then you know a deaf, dumb, blind person can play mean pinball tuning a forced induction vehicle. They are tremendously more responsive to tuning especially if you can tweak the boost. More comparing apples to oranges and N/A to forced induction falls into that category. It ain't and never will be the same.


[/QUOTE]We've been selling 370Z Cobb APs in the sponsor classifieds section for a few months now.
How many have we sold? Answer - 8
That's nothing compared to the number we've sold for other cars (in the dozens).

If 370Z enthusiasts realize the true benefits and effectiveness of the Cobb AP, they will see more maps developed for them, from Stage 1 basic intake bolt on, to Stage 4+ upgraded twin turbo reflash maps. They aren't that huge of a company, so they can't put as much time into their R&D as they'd like. They are thinking smart, and I would too.

If more people purchase the Cobb APs, and email them more, we'll see more maps, and an decrease in time it takes to develop these maps as well.

Just my .02

Regards,
AJ
ECS Motorsports[/QUOTE]


My issue here is fourfold.

1. No company should be selling a product until it is ready and Cobb openly solicited 370Z business indicating they were ready to sell the unit. They originally scanned my car prior to get some of the initial ECU information. I purchased the unit only after they indicated it was ready for sale. Thinking smart is one thing, being ethical and doing the right thing is another.

We are all human, that is not to say there will not be bugs in the first units built or improvements coming, however it simply should at least be able to do basic tunes if your openly asking people to purchase your product.

2. Let me get this right......You're on the supply/profit side asking people to spend money for something that doesn't work correctly hoping Cobb will put efforts into making it work correctly so you can sell more? How about just sending Cobb some of your cash and maybe they will make it work correctly so you can sell more of them.

3. Not a fan of canned tunes as they can be spot on, or way off. You need the specific vehicle on a dyno to objectively measure the gains and parameters contributing to making the gains. Again canned tunes do have certain have applications however, being once sponsored by a dyno shop it's something I've literally seen hundreds of times.

4. This goes back to tuning N/A applications and forced induction applications. Unless the factory tune is way off or the car is heavily modded (cams, heads, compression, strokers, etc,) you typically will not see drastic changes after tuning. Believe there might be an unrealistic expectation that simply ain't gonna be there.

Truthfully, if all the software did for me was fuel/air @ wot, timing, rev limit and speed limit w/o adversely effecting anything else..I'd be a happy camper. Being one of the original people to purchase the unit and 9-10 months later still not working and finding it causes issues.......time to painfully say "no mas."

The physicians creed is: "Above all, do no harm" This adverise effect on driving fuel/air ain't cutting it in my book at all.

bluestyle55

Dude... No one else seems to be having the same problems you are. And don't get me wrong...I am sorry you have been so unsuccessful.

Have you tried called the guys at Cobb about this? I doubt they would give you the big F U.

Altered Atmosphere, among other tuners have had plenty of success using the AP on the 370z. Altered Atmosphere told me that they have recieved several important AP updates over the past couple of months. Perhaps the issues you are having has been fixed?? Dunno...

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2009 370z 6MT Touring w/ Sport Pkg | Invidia Gemini CBE| Stillen G3 CAI | ERZ HFC's |X-Pel Clear Bra | 20% Tint

drisko

Wow...haha...I just logged in because I was going to post something very similar to what you just did.

I've had my AP for nearly a year now and I feel like I've been cheated out of $700 (well technically only about $550 because I could have bought a good ScanGauge for about $150 that does what my AP currently does). I do have hope that COBB will eventually figure out the VVEL system and fix the other problems, and release staged maps but, honestly, my patience is running a bit thin. I'm actually thinking of trying to return the item or sell it to some 350Z owner.

COBB - if you do read this, please know that there are actually A LOT MORE 370Z owners that would buy the AP if it had staged maps that showed some good gains. I think figuring out the VVEL system, along with fixing the tuning issues, is worth putting some more resources into, esp. since G37 owners will also benefit from this (and who knows what other Nissan/Infiniti cars the VVEL technology will be used in).

Denny McLain

[QUOTE=drisko;426089]

I've had my AP for nearly a year now and I feel like I've been cheated out of $700 (well technically only about $550 because I could have bought a good ScanGauge for about $150 that does what my AP currently does). I do have hope that COBB will eventually figure out the VVEL system and fix the other problems, and release staged maps but, honestly, my patience is running a bit thin. I'm actually thinking of trying to return the item or sell it to some 350Z owner.QUOTE]

Share the exact same feeling. Converted the car back to stock programming and thrown away the manuals.. When do you say "enough is enough?" For me....now. Honest to god a nice guy, just fed up with all the BS.

Zsteve

[QUOTE=Denny McLain;426814]And what they are selling for $450 now, yes you were ripped off a bit. They are still making a good profit at 450 so they made a killing at 700 and still no maps. I agree that they should have waited till they had maps before putting it on sale. Thats why I dont always buy aftermarket things when they first come out, I wait till others have it too and the price wars begin. Now some things come out with good intro prices but most are just trying to make a killing off us in these forums cuz they know we want them NOW.

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2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

bluestyle55

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2009 370z 6MT Touring w/ Sport Pkg | Invidia Gemini CBE| Stillen G3 CAI | ERZ HFC's |X-Pel Clear Bra | 20% Tint

COBB Tuning

I am dismayed to hear about your experience with the AccessPORT and I hope we can resolve this for you. I was able to pull up your dyno graph from Plano and do not see anything that would lead me to believe that your car was running overly rich when it left the Plano facility.



The data displayed by the AccessPORT is the actual reading from the stock O2 sensors and is not any more or less accurate than the sensor itself.

That said, what AFR was the tuned map reading? What do you consider pig rich? Your graph shows an AFR of around 12.5:1 tapering to 12.2:1 which is just about perfect for an NA car. Cylinder wash shouldn't be a concern till about 9:1, which is beyond the range of the stock sensor to read and if this were the case, I would start leaning towards a mechanical issue of some kind.

According to your post, the stock map ran leaner on cruise than the tuned map and your MPG jumped 4-4.5 mpg, were you able to log this and tell what was going on with the car? You state that you then downloaded a new version of the AccessTUNER software or Firmware hoping that we had fixed a bug to deal with your poor fuel economy. The firmware and software do not impact the calibrations in any way; what map did you reinstall on your car? Was this the original calibration from Plano or the stock calibration? Were you able to datalog the car during this time to see what changes had been made and how the car was behaving?

The AccessPORT unit itself does not actively alter the calibration while the vehicle is in operation, it can only read or write data so if a stock calibration was installed, you should not have seen any change in performance. If you were using the calibration from Plano, this too would remain unaltered by the software or firmware update. Can you tell me what new software you downloaded?


Do you have graphs and datalogs from when you tweaked the map? In what way and how was the car pulling timing? Were you seeing knock correction under high-load or in normal cruising and low-load conditions?

Were you altering the calibration that Plano created for your car or did you start with the stock calibration? These cars are very sensitive to changes to the MAF sensor housing/intake and MAF calibrations. If you were using a stock map and not altering the MAF calibration correctly, this could be the reason your car was not running properly. Again, graphs and logs would be beneficial to help understand where the issue was.

The calibration you recieved was for performance driving it would appear. If you are in need of an "economy map" we can certainly address that for you so that you have a map for performance drivng and one for highway driving, that is one of the advantages of the AccessPORT.

We have found that adding modifications, especially to the intake system of any modern, MAF-based car, can drastically alter the way the car behaves. While in the past you could make drastic changes to a vehicle without negatively impacting driveability and performance, we have found that this is no longer the case, even with basic bolt-ons. Even the simple addition of an intake can drastically alter the way a modern car, such as the 370Z, runs.

We are more than happy to take another look at your car and we would like to get you back on the road with the car behaving to your satisfaction. You are always welcome to bring your car by our Plano facility if you are having issues with your tune. Barring that, if you can supply us with datalogs or graphs from your other tuning sessions, we can be of more service to making your car perform up to your standards.

Travis
COBB Tuning

Denny McLain

Travis

I appreciate your response.

Frankly liked everyone at the Cobb Plano facility and all seemed to be stand-up regular people. A third party within the industry with a vested interest in Cobb doing well hooked me up with you guys thinking it may be a good marriage. (At one time I worked directly with the engineers at Haltech to developed an engine management system for LTx F-bodies. Currently have money invested in developing some other new 370Z products.)

On at least two occasions prior I e-mailed back dyno findings with attached logs on issues found with the program directly to you and copied both Neil and Calvin. No one seemed to give a fat rat on feedback and never heard boo back. So much for the marriage as I couldn't even get a hello kiss.


FYI.......The 370Z front 02 sensors are wideband according to a number of sources.. As mentioned, literally threw away all my logs but from memory the AccessPort 02 readouts were all over the place below 4000 rpm and showed about a half a point rich over 4000 as compared to RPM's dyno wideband.


Pig rich is a 20% reduction in fuel economy for no real reason showing A/F readings in the 12's during hwy cruising. Under perfect conditions, it takes about 14.6 lbs of air to completely burn 1 lb of fuel (an air/fuel ratio of 14.6:1) Most factory driving fuel maps are below but very close to that magic number under normal operating temperatures and loads. Although 14.6 A/F is the perfect ratio chemically, not every oxygen molecule in the air will "find" a fuel molecule to react (burn) with.

During my last trip to see if the software was working better, the car was getting 23 mpg at a steady 70mph. Pulled into a gas station, removed the tuning putting the stock program back in and it jumped immediately to a steady 27 mph.

How can that be mechanical?? Nice try, no cigar!

Your correct on full throttle A/R readings, however as a general rule WOT A/F can vary greatly depending upon the individual car. I've seen optimum N/A performance in the mid 12's and also seen mid 13's work the best for certain cars. fyi.....Pro Stock tunes for low 14's. Forced induction in the high 11's to low/mid 12's. Agreed, these cars seem to like mid to mid high 12's. The WOT reading are fine. No issues. Driving A/F's are always higher.



Cobb website and download your latest software and made sure my firmware was current. So as to prevent prior issues, I transferred the primary fuel A/F and other settings such as rev limit manually making it a complete fresh reflash. The MAF tables were not touched by either myself or Calvin at Plano. Nada, Zippo. Stock to stock to stock MAF.

It did the exact same thing with the latest of latest everything from a fresh start.



As mentioned prior, these were e-mailed directly to you hoping to not only resolve issues for myself, but anyone else using it. I paid for the dyno time out of my pocket and offered everything free.


Again, found in the past altering MAF calibrations can be a real pain and a lot of driving/dyno time to get everything correct. If I were to play with the MAF settings, it would be because issues are obvious or trying to find that extra 1-2 hp. Generally not worth the effort if it ain't broken.


At one time thinking bigger was always better, used to always either purchase a larger or have the existing MAF bodies ported only to find out I was taking a step backwards. The advent of wideband 02's and data logging changed that.

Yes, air input can adversely affect tuning and A/F. However, I've not experienced anything drastic enough to warrant the type of issues I'm seeing from simple air intakes. Again, nice try, no cigar.


COBB Tuning[/QUOTE]
We are more than happy to take another look at your car and we would like to get you back on the road with the car behaving to your satisfaction. You are always welcome to bring your car by our Plano facility if you are having issues with your tune. Barring that, if you can supply us with datalogs or graphs from your other tuning sessions, we can be of more service to making your car perform up to your standards.

Travis
COBB Tuning[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the offer but I'm washing my hands entirely. Really would rather have that refund...Please!

Denny McLain

Travis

Something didn't look right on your dyno sheet that was posted so I went and looked up the dyno sheets from the session. Not even my car, nor is it the same day.

What is up with you guys? The car gained virtually nothing from the tuning session. It wasn't till later after me tuning the car did I see any gains.

cobb before and after tuning picture by dennylmclain - Photobucket

It picked up a tiny bit on bottom but there was no gains at all on top. Why are you posting a false dyno sheet.....baiting or trolling for new customers? If so please do not use me as what you posted is not accurate or truthfull at all.

Zsteve

oops!!! Wrong graph, glad you caught that Denny, things need to be accurate so all on here get the right info.

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2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette