That's pretty much what I was thinking.

That is what I was quoted from UPREV for dyno time to tune the car. So I just quoted it that way.

You have to pay for the amount of time you are on the dyno. Any tuning software is like this. They can sell you the software but they won't let you use the dyno for free. You still have to tune your car on the dyno. So without that you are SOL.

If you don't want a custom tune to your car, to your mods, then yes you can do the E-Tune service. But that is not available yet even on the HR engine as they don't have enough cars and mods in their system to do this yet to know what to adjust for power gains. So expect a long wait on that.

Hey Sharif! dont forget about me! ;)....as a fellow COBB GTR, Nissan, Subaru Pro-tuner...as well as Osiris....i can also answer any questions and will give my input as well....

.....Both systems are very effective when used properly....Cobb is in my opinion a more "End-user" friendly system with its Access-Port keeping your maps handy for quick changes...and as a Datalog tool....

....The Osiris software on the other hand is a bit more tech rich with its Cipher integration and "Real Time Tuning"...(unavailable for nissan on the Cobb as of now)....

Both Cobb and UPREV are devoted to their software development and it is evident in the products they put out for us!....without these companies the tuning world for nissan would be dismal...

....I cant begin to express how excited I am to finally get to spend some tuning time on the 370z!!!...this week has been an eye opener with the Cobb release....hopefully the Osiris update is not too far off.... would love to see how they stack up against each other....:tup:

-Jack

^^I said "one" of the few^^ Welcome. :)

Can one of you guys elaborate on what the Real Time Tuning is, and what its benefits are?

Real Time Tuning (RTT) allows you to select some parameters that will be modifed in real time as you make the run on the dyno, as opposed to the normal way of doing the run then analyzing the results and making changes and then reruning the car to see the effect of your changes.

Just meesin with ya!...:hello:

.....ok back on topic...sorry.

Thanks for explaining. So in terms of end result, does it really make any difference? I mean it sounds like it saves time on the dyno, but doesn't really make a difference to the net gain you end up with. Am I right?

yeap you are right

One thing that I would like to point out is street tuning. I don't know about the cobb unit, but with something like Osiris(end-user tuning option)+Cipher, one has all the tools necessary to make the ultimate street tune. After all, even the most sophisticated dyno is nothing but an approximation.

With something like Cipher, one can log with ultra high precision how long it takes to accelerate between two given speeds in a given gear. Make some adjustments, and make another run. The cipher logs should be precise to the ~10 millisecond level.

I don't know what the logging capabilities are of the AP unit.

Are you talking about Osiris Pro where you do your own tuning? Or Osiris standard where you send them your data logs and they send you back an eTune? If you're talking about former, then it makes sense. Problem is not everyone knows how to do their own tuning (myself included). If you're talking about eTunes, I think I'd rather dyno tune than rely on the eTunes.

Semtex thanks for the long explanation there - I think I've finally got it sorted out in my head. I just like to know every little detail and figure out what the most bang for the buck is on mods, etc. Travel costs are definately part of the equation for me since I'm trying to figure out the total cost/peformance.

So that being said it sounds like a dyno tune is the only option with Uprev at this point since there is no e-tune available according to NIZMOZ...

Not even a dyno tune is available with UpRev yet. They haven't finished their development for the 370Z yet. The only thing available so far is dyno tune with Cobb.

I plan to go back up to UPREV in a few weeks again to have my car retuned. I just ordered my MotorDyne Shockwave Dual Exhaust so after that gets installed time for a retune. :)

Sorry, I was talking about the Pro. I didn't name it explicitly because I haven't paid attention to the various package names available.

I've wanted Cipher for a long time now; I just can't justify spending $400 for data logging. However, with it, I could street tune my current ride(I presently have a utec). That sounds really cool and would be an awesome learning experience. Plus, there's all kinds of little things I've wanted to log.

For example, I would like to log acceleration times in from say 40mph to 120mph in 4th gear. That would give me a fairly large area of rpm, in a sufficiently long gear. Then run the same rpm range in 3rd gear. 3rd gear is approximately 27% shorter than 4th gear. Then do something similar in 5th. 5th gear is about 27% taller than 4th. It would be interesting to plot acceleration in 3rd, 4th, and 5th against gear ratios.

Once one obtained a large enough sample set, one could start playing with final drive numbers, either through the FD ratio, or tire sizes, and make some decently educated guesses on how changes affected acceleration.

Also, I believe(but don't know for sure) Cipher can log the pitch and yaw sensors used by VDC. It would be interesting(purely as an academic exercise) to measure pitch and yaw on the car over a known section of road as you change suspension components or tire compounds.

As you can see, I would prefer the UpRev solution. There's all kinds of neat scientific/geeky things one can learn from its data logging capabilities. But I have the benefit of having an older platform where the product is available. If I owned a 370z at this moment, I would get the Cobb.

The AP can log up to 14 items.

Street tuning is an option but tough to get clean runs to log and tune properly, a load based dyno like the Mustang we have is great and then do street tune to check driveability but wide open throttle is easier on a dyno

IMO, rushing to get a product out early may be profitable but it's better to wait for a quality product. This one has been a miserable experience for G37 owners.

Which one?

a number of G37 owners who purchased the Cobb AccessPORT are far from satisfied.

I'm not sure how pro-tuners are doing it with the nissans, but when I got my pro-tune for my suby with the accessport, it included the dyno tune first, then the street tune to smooth everything out afterwards. Makes more sense to do it this way because there's no way to get a good tune if you're only doing one or the other.

Yeap maybee 10hp gains from their can tunes:shakes head:

We're not talking about canned tunes. We're well past that in this thread. It has already been stated repeatedly that if you want to go with canned tunes, go with UpRev because Cobbs canned tunes suck -- it's a no-brainer. But you can dyno tune for Nissans with Cobb now. And once we start talking about dyno-tunes, it's basically a wash between Cobb and UpRev, the choice boiling down to preference in terms of having a standalone handheld unit and also cost.

Actually many didn't even get any gains. Many 350Z owners also are not satisfied and selling theirs.

Yeah, I wouldn't buy cobb for "can tune" unless they were knocking down 20whp. The only turn off for me on Rev is the license fee. Because I bounce from Z to Z. But cobb can tune sucks, I am stuck on this one, for me atleast.

You can remove the license from one car and put it on another car. We have customers that are on their third or forth car. Customers sell their licenses all the time to other customers also.

Both our system and Cobbs system are license based. They use the handheld to bind the license to your ECU, we use the Cipher cable. With our system though you don't need to buy Cipher or a handheld device at an additional expense.

Osiris is $400USD retail, and can be tuned by any of our listed Pro Tuners for their fee. Cobb is $700USD retail and can be tuned only buy the resellers that have bought the licensing to do so.

Our system is not yet available for consumers on the 370Z, we're still updating interface software and doing more testing. We're already able to tune the G37 (first system to market from GT Motorsports available via their turbo kits) but we haven't released the full tuning version of the software to Pro Tuners or customers yet because we're still adding features and doing testing.

We will announce it on the forums and our website when Pro Tuners will have access to the software. We'd rather be the best software than the first commercially available software.

The capabilities of our system are far superior. We also add features continuously. We were the first to offer true forced induction support in the Nissan/Infiniti market. Technosquare had a very limited support for forced induction and it never really took off, most people used the Utec instead.

With our software people replace their piggyback/standalone unit and use the stock ECU because we have more reliability and better driveability.

When our software is released for the G37/370Z/GTR it will be the most powerful software available for tuning on these vehicles. We won't be the first to market on these vehicles but we'll be the replacement for whatever is available at the time.

I never received a license when i tuned with UpRev over @ Japtrix. or do i have to call and say im changing cars ?

^+1 we have done this for customers

The difference is the control the software has. The stock ECU in these newer Nissans is simply amazing. Leagues ahead of what the aftermarket builds as far as speed and capability.

We control more tables more accurately. We also give Pro Tuners and end user Tuners more access to additional features than anyone else. We also add features over time as customers have requirements that come up.

A Dyno Tune isn't just a dyno tune. If your tuner has more access and more absolute control the car will net more gain. Remember tuning isn't about power it's about efficiency. The more efficient you can make the motor run, the more power and the more mileage you'll net. One thing our customers have always raved about is the driveability. Anyone can add more fuel and push timing, but if you can't make the car drive better why bother? If I was spending $35k on a car, I wouldn't want it to drive like a busted old mid nineties turbo car.

It also depends on who your tuner is. We try and listen to feedback from customers as much as possible. We've cut off three of our Pro Tuners in the last 12 months because of customer complaints. If you look at our list of Pro Tuners you'll notice it grows constantly, and those names are some of the best in the industry.

As an aside, our software doesn't just work on the 350/370, G35/G37, Titan. it works on all Nissan and Infiniti vehicles that use the newer style ECU. We have customers with Versas, Sentras, Altimas, Patrols, Frontiers, Xterras, M35/45, FX35/45 running our software. No other company offers that kind of support for Nissan or Infiniti owners. Thats capability that no one else can offer, or even cares to offer. We also have Pro Tuners world wide and the list keeps growing.

The License is on your ECU. It can be pulled off and set back to stock by HP Logic if you're selling the car or taking it in for service.

Ok, so if i get rid of the car i have to go back to HP Logic and what would i receive back ? How much would i have to pay for this ?

We offer it both ways. The Pro Tuner can tune it for you, or if you want to tune it yourself you can buy that system also. We're far more flexible in our offerings than other companies also. That tends to be somewhat confusing to people as they aren't use to having choices. But it works for us.

Some people will buy the Osiris Tuner so they can adjust their car, but they will have a Pro Tuner set up the original tune on it. That way they can adjust their car for different tracks etc. They have the software available in the event something happens also. We have a tone of SCCA and NASA teams that use our software, and if a motor dies between events and they need to replace it, they will need to adjust that tune. Sometimes they don't have time to get a full new dyno tune between events, and we're their saving grace.

Other customers just want their car to run right, they don't care about having Cipher for data logging or diagnostics. They can go to a Pro Tuner, buy an Osiris License and a tune and be done. By far the cheapest solution on the market for that customer.

Also our system is upgradeable. Start with the Osiris License and a tune because thats what your budget allows, then add the Cipher at a later date. You can upgrade to Osiris Tuner even if you'd like.

as mentioned we can take the license off the ECU just give us a shout, we are no longer part of Japtrix, we are Horsepower Logic now and located in Royal Palm Beach you can see our contact info here HorsePower Logic

How about for a FI set up? Would it be worth going piggyback/standalone, or going with a cobb/uprev?

We have done Osiris with FI on 350Z and works great, we are planning on doing it with Cobb on a 370Z in the next few weeks so we will see how it performs in comparison.

So do we have any sort of ETA?

Yeah no kidding. I personally got a little chuckle when UpRev made the following claim:

Those statements may be true based on the products they've released for other cars, but as it pertains to the 370Z, until their stuff is released, it's vaporware. Don't get me wrong, I've heard nothing but good things about UpRev and have high expectations for their 370Z software. Heck, there's a good chance that I'll end up going with them. But coming out and claiming that your stuff is better than the other guys before you've even finished with development just seems kinda cocky to me. To be honest, it's a bit of a turnoff. Also, I believe the forum rules state that one needs to be a forum sponsor if he wants to push his products on the forum.

+1

Technically, the product isn't out yet, so I don't know if he's violating rules or not.

I love the potential offered by the product, even though I'm not an owner. However, as much as I love what I have read about the product, I'm not too fond of the company.

** Edit -
Another benefit of UpRev not posting as a sponsor - we can discuss things objectively without the poster getting all butthurt and threatening to have threads pulled/edited/closed by throwing around sponsorship weight.

On another forum I suggested that UpRev make Cipher open source, and still charge for the cable. Or at least open up the software to other developers with a core api. There are some awesome things the community could build if we had that low-level api already done for us. But the reaction was a typical knee-jerk "but we're in business to make money" response. That's a typical response from some one that is not in the software business. People in the software business have figured out how to still make money while giving certain things away for free decades ago.

My issue wasn't with the company's response. It was the tone and verbiage used; I was insulted. I speak to my 12 year old son with more respect than was present in the response I received from UpRev. That cost them a customer. That's the primary reason I haven't ditched the utec and gone the full Osiris+Cipher route.