I'm in... IF it works.

Chris: I put most of it on the scale and then tossed in some extras to attempt to simulate the components that arent ready to be weighed themselves yet. It looks like we will be 4-7 pounds. I believe under 5, but leaving room for the unknown.

9 Gallons down is pretty good, quite a length from stock. Thats about 10 left in the tank. We will see how far our product lets everyone go. As with anything, its not an easy comparison as every car and track is different. The more aggressive the car and the more wild the track, the more it will be working this product. Only time will tell what limits people find. Our hope is to get just about everyone to a pretty low tank level. I like to stay modest on our expectations and then surpass, rather than make promises and fall short. I am pretty good at this stuff, so I hope this one is another home run. We are very close now to track testing of the pre-production unit.

One thing that people DO need to keep in mind, is their poor stock fuel pump assembly. Our product targets resolving fuel pressure starvation to the engine. It DOES have a built-in secondary function that helps put more fuel back to the stock fuel pump assembly to keep that pump wet, but its focus is on the engine and only whats left over goes back to the stock pump assembly. Fuel pumps are not a fan of running dry. Starvation to the stock fuel pump assembly could shorten the life span of the factory pump. This is, of course, a relevent issue with any compariable type of surge solution for any vehicle. Its more just a heads up rather than a prediction of impending doom.

We are working on pricing more today. I am not sure when I quoted who what.. but we have gone through 3 different styles of solutions before picking this one, all of which have gone thru a few versions... so I cant recall at what point I estimated. I do know that the depth and refinement we have decided to take to the final product is going to make it cost a little more than we originally anticipated. We are going to build a little bit of detail into some of the "installation" components as well to try and make this as easy as possible to install correctly.. because there is room for error in making fuel line connections wrong, and in any combination other than "correct", will result in an unhappy driver.

We wont sell it if it doesnt!

Sounds good, keep us updated.

you are dead on here... at the track this weekend, the cheap OEM fuel sending unit on my car basically broke in half and sent the pump flying around inside my tank... and of course all the lines got pulled lose, and I lost all fuel delivery...

It is possible that there were errors when the assembly was reinstalled in my vehicle that contributed to the structural failure of the sending unit... also possible that it is a cheap plastic part and doesn't hold up to g-loads and the mass connected to it

hopefully you are including some reinforcement to the strength of the sending unit assembly

I broke a fuel baffle plate, not sure if that has anything to the cheap quality of the OEM tank/pump assembley

Right now, I can only get through about a 15 minute session with the tank completely topped up. If the tank is down about half way it will even display the symptoms on mild right hand turns on the street so it's not just for use on the track for me.

Subscribing

I started working on installation/fitment/supporting components today. Basically starting to figure out the hoses, lengths, attachment points, etc, for all of this. I took some really cool videos from inside the gas tank as well. Really puts everything in perspective to get a view from inside the problem environment.

I dont envy the guys that work at shops that will have to install a bunch of these! Working thru these 4" diameter openings in the gas tank really sucks! We will be making some pretty clear instructions for those who want to do it at home also. It actually isnt anything that will require crazy tools or experience. Just a careful hand and patience with the frustrations of working inside a gas tank.

well I'm ready when you are. I have the interior out and ready to give it a shot. Will I need to drain the gas tank too?

it doesnt matter if the tank is empty or not... but the less gas in the tank, the less gas you will get all over yourself and your car. it would be recommended to have next to nothing in the tank.

ok, I will have to do some street driving then. Registration doesn't expire til the end of the month.

Are you going to be willing to do installs, phunk? Being so close by I may try to avoid playing with the fuel system myself. :)

Yes we will definitely setup a fair installation service for it. While we are not a tuning shop anymore, just a manufacturer... we do have a bay with a lift/etc for R&D. Not that a lift is needed for this install anyway, its all done from the interior access panels for the tank.

In case I missed it elsewhere is your upgrade going to include a better fuel pump itself?

Yes it does include its own fuel pump which will become the primary pump for the engine. The stock fuel pump will become simply a transfer pump, or an "active pickup" if you will. We are rating its HP potential to 550rwhp using gasoline. Later, when needed, we can offer an upgrade for it for those on a built motor with FI who want to make more power.

Our product is, in essence, a surge can. We sort of took that theory, expanded on it, and tailered it around the 370z. It is built specifically for the 370z gas tank, and mounts to it / inside it. It does not require a return fuel conversion and external regulator in order to keep the fuel siphons operating correctly like an external surge can would for these cars. And it does not maintain any pressure inside the can as a result of feeding the restrictive venturi siphons through overflow fuel, which is how we can feel comfortable putting it inside the gas tank. Because it is inside the gas tank, it includes one of its own very potent fill siphons on the drivers side of the tank, along with the stock fuel pump assembly on the passenger side being the major source of fill.

It does not require any plumbing changes outside of the fuel tank at all. Everything is happening inside the fuel tank. The only thing going on outside the tank is a relay and a few wires that route into the gas tank through an OEM quality electrical bulkhead to the new fuel pump.

So its like a surge tank on steroids. It has several additional features over your typical external surge can.

Our theory behind it involves 5 lines running back and fourth in the tank. 1 being the stock cross-tank siphon. which remains untouched. 4 that we add, all of which interface our product with the oem fuel pump assembly.

Thats about it for the info for now. We are actually working on it for other applications as well. We believe it will be a big hit, and we want to offer it for a few platforms very shortly after the 370z.

Like what I'm hearing!

Phunk, will this eliminate the issue I had over the weekend where the top plate and the rods separated due to the weak structural linkage? Ie are you reinforcing or replacing that structure in this new product?

Also, would like to recommend that you start a new thread with a press release when you are ready so the conversation can stay focused on your product... will help when new people stumble across this issue down the road as well

Side note... NASA and some other sanctioning bodies assign "points" when you use a non-OEM fuel pump... will be well worth it to carry less fuel / weight, but just fyi

All of this sounds very interesting. Almost makes you want to buy even if you don't track hard core. I plan to track a handful of time next year with two this year. But it seems a must for anyone that might track. In for pricing.

Also big props to you for taking on this task and making sure it's going to be a great product.

I tend to believe that what happened to you over the weekend may be an isolated occurance. Our product is mounting on the opposite side of the fuel tank, and merely interfacing via plumbing with the OEM assembly that broke on you. It would not be too difficult for us to contruct some structural reinforcement for the OEM fuel pump assembly if there is a problem with its integrity. It would be entirely independant of our starvation resolution product.

I will definitely start a new thread for the finished product. We want to market it with a little motivation, I think it will be a popular product.

It is strange that they assign points based on a fuel pump upgrade alone, as a fuel pump doesnt increase horsepower or anything. But it is for certain to enhance track times if you dont have to drive around a problem or deal with momentary power loss.

my bad... here's the nasa rule, there seems to be some flexibilty... was going off memory... but it looks like if you have a different pump and ecu tune you take points for both (+2 on this rule, and +x for ECU rule)

6) Non-OEM or modified carburetor, fuel rail, fuel injectors, fuel pump(s), and/or fuel pressure regulator +2 (no points for fuel pump alone if using OEM fuel and timing maps, sensor inputs and ignition timing)

in any event, this is just a nit... great to hear about your progress!

http://www.the370z.com/members/phunk...-boss-like.jpg

This here is a sneak peek of the CJM solution to fuel starvation in the twisties. This is all I can show for now. It is what you would call a fuel surge tank, but we have expanded on the theories behind them and added some extra functions. It will be marketed as the CJM Serge Tank, pronounced "sarge" as-in "sergeant". Because its the boss like that.

It is of course shown here in pre-production status... so it is in raw machined and fabricated finish.

Looks great

2cents re name... how about:

"Fuel Sarge"
or
"Slosh Tank"
or more to the point...
"CJM Anti-Fuel Starvation Tank"

Serge Tank sounds like a nickname for Sergio

... consider selling this to Nissan Motorsports and maybe Nissan OEM can license the design from you?... hopefully you've filed for the IP

When you're ready, might also want to post this on the forums with NASA, SCCA etc... those are going to be the guys most familiar with the problem

BTW, looks heavy... how much does it weigh?

complete weight with fuel pump and everything is 3.5 pounds. supplemental installation plumbing etc will probably weight about 1 to 1.5 lb

not too bad

Fancy

5 pounds sounds good to me, that's less than the weight of 1 gallon of fuel. You could call it "Big Sarge", or "Sarging". You'll have to google that last one :)

I just want to call it mine!

[RICER]I will only buy it if it has a burnt titanium finish.[/RICER]

i cant wait to show you how cool it is inside! outside is sort of boring.

I'll definitely be checking this out in person.

I'm first in line! lol

On a side note, the new Nissan gas tank didn't fix the problem.....

interested in this as well!

I'm interested too. May not get in the first buy, but certainly sometime in the next few months.

Will anything have to be done differently when combined with a return ruel system if added later?

yes the mapping of the fuel lines would have to be altered. i have a map i drew of how i would probably try it first, i will focus more on that down the road.

should have track test results for this weekend!

Ditto!!!!!! :iagree:

Ran into this Saturday at Texas World Speedway. 2011 Nismo, stock wheels. Had a student in the car showing how to connect clockwise turn 6 to 5 (~4 second sustained right). So, turn 7 high speed right, straight, sharp right a entry of 6 with big arc to 5 and... Choke... Left at 4 and left at 3 with high speed right sweeper 2 to 1 choke there too. Oil temps 240 and no error lights or other indication. Heck of a "track car" ya built there Nissan. Hot oil, hot brakes and a fuel system that can't handle a spirited turn... But I did like the handling during my sessions on track even though I was limited to three laps per while all the stock BMWs and Porsches went without a hitch for a dozen... May be something there... And so, the track mods begin!

Quick thanks. Hey folks, thanks. Based on this I topped off my gas tank before the first red session today (still at TWS today). No issues in the turns where I was getting the starvation. Little extra weight but beats losing power and having the nose of a GT3 invading my exhaust pipes in turn 2-1 at 130!

:iagree:
Yep - CW at TWS is a killer from the front straight to the carousel. I was at Cresson 2 weekends ago running the 3.1 and forgot to fill up for a session - "2 dots down from full" and dam if it didn't happen in turn 9. No matter how you slice it - CCW or CW - big right hand sweeping turns and the current Nismo setup will not work.

Come on Phunk - WE NEED YOU!!!!!! :tiphat: