Need autox alignment suggestion/specs: 285/35 19" Sq. tires, stock suspension
 

Hey guys,

As you saw from this thread, I have been autox-ing regularly now. I am hoping to do 3 events every month (at least hoping to).

I ended up getting 285/35-19" RE-11 all around sq. setup and I love it. Best decision ever made. So, finally I wanted to get an alignment that will take advantage of the wide REs and give me even quicker time. My suspension is bone stock including all stock sways.

So, what kind of autox friendly alignment do you recommend? I want to stay in street (C Street) class. Remember, I still have to make it to the event driving on regular roads/highways (sometimes in rain) etc. So maybe a spec that works for regular driving and autox? Also keep in mind, this will be my 2nd season. So, I may not be there quite yet. A 5 year old autox PRO may benefit from certain spec vs. me on the same car.

I asked a national driver,"What if I get a front sway, what's alignment should I get?" He suggested try to minimize rear camber/toe (-1.5 camber, 0 toe). In the front, 1/8" total toe out in the front.

Perhaps I need more positive camber/toe in the rear (than above mentioned) with stock front sway? Lets hear your suggestions. Thank you in advance

vh1's alignment specs
 

Here is what I am running on my car for the street. The intent was to get it close to AutoX numbers and livable on the street.

Disclaimer: Haven't run it on the track but feels pretty balanced in the canyons(slight oversteer in the canyons on stock RE050's). Might try going down to -1.5 Deg. on the rear camber as you noted to see what effect it has.

Front Camber: -2.2 Deg.
Front Toe: 0
Front Caster: 5.5 Deg.

Rear Camber: -1.8 Deg.
Rear Toe: 1/16" or 0.01 Deg. Total (1/32" Right + 1/32" Left)

I have swift springs with SPL Front and Rear Camber adjustment and SPC Toe Bolts on the rear.

Hope this helps or gives you a starting point.

AK,

I know on the track zero toe on the back was horrible. Made the rear break loose far to soon. Zero to up front you will love as the steering feels much lighter and easier to turn in.

For rear toe I shot for just under the factory recommended spec. Much much better stays planted now.

When you went square, did you match the rim widths? or stayed with the front stock width?

Thank Vh1. Those are some nice camber. I am not sure if I can do something similar on stock suspension as C Street class (in Autox) do not allow any camber kit/toe bolts etc. This is Stock Suspension spec for 09 Nissan 370Z

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/s...alignment1.png

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/s...lalignment.png


Thanks for the input. That's why I wanted to post it here so that I can hear more. I rarely have been doing HPDE lately due to car getting older (almost 85K and the lack of oil cooler). So, I'm pretty much focused on Autox. So, an autox only alignment spec is what I was interested in.

I am def. keeping your suggestion written down. :tup:


Stock front rims (19" Sport Rays). Fits fine, no rub - no issues.

i dont have a issue with zero toe in the back, i ran slight toe in before, then went zero and didnt find the rear any less stable

You can't do much in class.

Dial in minimal camber in the rear. The rear camber curves are aggressive and you want to be flat as possible to get power down. I like a little toe in out back on the Z, but it's personal preference.

You definitely need toe out up front, how much is preference. I kept mine pretty aggressive for autoX, but it makes the car trouble on the highway. 1/8 should be a good starting point.

A good front bar will help reel in the rollover the Z struggles with as well. In my experience the Hotckis is too stiff to use without extremely aggressive camber dialed in, but others have had different experiences.

The square setup should do you well. I'd consider going down in height next round of tires for the gearing advantage, nice to have on the autoX course.

AK

I have a setup simialr to yours. Front swaybar, 275/35/19 square on stock rays and no front camber arms. I did some research and came up with zero toe up front, either zero or 1/8 toe in, in the rear and -1.5 rear camber. I got these numbers from the forum and then found an article on motoiq that suggest the same setup, hope that helps. Also I saw that toe out is good but I dont want the car going all over the road on the hwy. http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...ing-your-Toe.a

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...ve-Camber.aspx

Boy I sure did rear would hook inot a corner then just let go. I did have 2.5 neg camber at the back at the time. Have since changed to just under stock toe and 1.8 neg camber and it is night and day.

what sway bars do you run? yeah that -1.8 is better for the rear. in general id never run over -2 out back since out rear suspension has a very aggressive camber curve under comrpession

Everthing is stock Nismo on the rear. Front is SPL upper control and everything else stock Nismo.

i have a large front sway, so it prolly contributes to a more tame rear even with the rear toe set at zero. These cars seriously like a big front sway

Whats that mean? Please say toe out or toe in and if you have a degree number vs a length number.

yes! Synolimit is here!!!

:tiphat:

Sorry, I find this as funny. Coming home after working a 16 hr day.:shakes head: I need a smile.

i can always depend on Synolimit popping up as soon as i mention "sway bars", well except for that duration of time he was banned :X

Not a sway bar thread.

yeah its a parking lot racing tread

Then I don't need mentioned in posts since I'm not numbers and degrees. I asked a toe question staying on topic, plan and simple.

oh man dont get bent outta shape dude LOL

No pics, then it never happened. Jk but can you take a pic i want to see how front looks with that width.

It means if the low spec is .09 and the middle (factory suggested spec) is .15 then I was shooting for .12. Immaterial if it is degrees or /100's I was shooting for the middle of the factory spec and the min spec.:tiphat:

Toe in... I was talking about the rear not sure why one would go with toe out unless it on a stroller but, I guess you could.

I was referring to actual numbers. I use a Hunter hence the wanting degrees if you had them vs length.

Ok now I'm confused. You said in post 3 you shot for just under factory spec. To me that means not in spec at all anymore. now you say .09 is the low and .15 is the middle and you shot for .12 which to me is still in the green and not the red. :confused:

Well what I've come across is everyone says things different with toe. Hunter reverses the positive and negative from the rest of the world so when I talk about toe I just want to hear it one way so I understand. If you had said .12 positive that could mean one of two ways. So I said please say if its in or out.

I think the same can be said for camber and caster. I think your spliting hairs over an exact number. If I had a garage at the track I would be all over changing this and that and finding the optimum settings. In my case I went zero toe front and rear. The front felt fine but, the rear was loose big time. So I knew I wanted some toe in but, due to tire wear issues wanted less toe in than factory spec. After this weekend at the track and for my level I feel I have a hellva well balanced Z. Now othesr run zero toe in the rear and feel the same about thier Z.

I think to get what I think your looking for you will have to find someone running the same tires, suspension, spacers/no spacers, sway bars, etc... Not sure what type of setup your looking for track, auto x, drag strip but go with zero if that feels like crap a little toe in as you think will help.:tup:

Not trying to split hairs. Was just curious what numbers you were shooting for and which way you set them. Everyone says shoot for zero but I know its almost impossible to hit 0.00 on the head. A fly could land on the rack and it changes. Plus whatever fuel you have in the car will change the moment you leave and lose some, plus if you were or were not sitting in the car at the time. I just took what you said about shooting lower than spec meant shoot for under 0.09, closer to zero. But if you shot for 0.12 you were just shooting for under the middle range number if I understand now? Which is still in spec but under half way of the spec range.

Yes all true. I think we should start a tread if one hasn't been and state everything you have suspension wise, weight, tires, wheels, settings, ratio, and then how you think it feels. Might give people like me a better understanding. For example I know Spohn and I have the same wheels and soon to be tires. We have different suspension and weight but maybe the next guy comes along and sees our setups and can pick one to follow instead of shooting in the dark blind folded.

:D

Awesome! great to know. yeah I think I want to start with 0 rear toe and see how it feels. There's a test and tune I signed up for Sun.

Dan,
Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree with you as it's limited what I can do in Stock Street category. But I like it bc I rather be a fast driver in a slow car than "OK" driver in a fast car.

I'm def. leaning toward toe out. Going to try 1/8" total toe out in the front and see how it feels. When you can car "wobble/trouble" in highway, how bad is it? Z still daily driver and I drive pretty high speed in highway. As for going down on height, I think 35 was the least high in 285 tires. I could be wrong.

thanks



Nice! good to hear. I don't have front sway :(. May next year I'll try a mild (eiback/stillen mid setting) Front sway but for now, stock will do. Any reason why you picked 0 toe in the front vs. slight toe out? I heard toe out in the front helps turns in autox.

stock width.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/s...psf074953d.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/s...psd95060a6.jpg
an autox course in a pouring rainy h*ll

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps8cfbcbf2.jpg
This is from EVO school yesterday ;)

Looks awesome! there's a slight bulge but barely noticable. Feels good on the pavement. I run usually 37F/38R or 38F/39R

thanks.


So, tomm is the day (I'm hoping) I get the alignment done. Kind of finalized on:

Front: 1/8" total toe out in the front (I keep hearing it helps turn better in autox)
Rear: -1/5 camber and 0 toe.
100% stock Z suspension setup. stock F and R sways.

I am just curious, since my Z is a daily driver, how bad will total 1/8" of front toe out will affect me? I drive in rain and high speed on highway.

Let us know about the before alignment. I know guys that can't hold settings drifting after just one day. The eccentric bolts blow and slip. I'd be surprised if yours are within spec. If you like autox I'd get a lockout kit.

before alignment is stock. I think I hit a curb in 2012 Sept. That's when I had a mechanic friend do the alignment on hunter machine. Oem spec.

is the lock out kit Stock/street class legal? I don't think I saw it in SCCA rule book

So since sep 2012 you haven't had an alignment? I'd be very interested in specs if you haven't.

That I don't know. I don't see why they wouldn't be. All you're doing is taking adjustment ability out of the setup. Does the rules say you have to adjust to OEM spec? Or can you adjust to whatever numbers you'd like? I get arms might be illegal for over adjustment, but under adjustment should be fine.

No I didn't :(. It's just hard to find a decent shop and my work life is way too busy. I was really busy in 2013. I had a few Sundays off. So I tried out autox which was happening 3 blocks from my house. Started out slow, 1 event a month. But slowly it became addiction. So toward the end season (August), I got 285 sq RE-11 and car felt much better than oem re-050. now starting 2014 season, I want to get a nice alignment setup for autox and daily driving. The Z still has to do 80 mph in highway and great in rain. But if I can squeeze in a little bit of performance spec instead of boring dealership spec, that's what I'm looking for.

I def. have to look that up. Any link to the actual product? pm me plz

I'd PM you but I want others to see this too.

This is a lock out kit for $72!!
SPL Eccentric Lockout Kit . But what it really is, is $2 each 10.9 bolts 100mm x 0.46" which can be picked up at advanced auto parts for $8 total. I'd get washers for each side and nuts too obviously. The plates can be made of anything really, they are not load bearing. You just need to cut them 1.33" in width so they fit in between the notches in the subframe.

The trick is to drill your 0.46" hole based on what you want your camber and toe to be. If you drill the hole center and are not in spec you need a plate that has the hole more offset. The beauty is if you make a 1.33x1.33 plate with a offset hole you can turn the plate 4 different directions giving you 4 different toe and camber specs. Takes a little longer for the alignment guy but its not bad to losen the nut, and turn the plate 90 degrees. I used 1/4 thick T6061 plate a foot long by 2" I got for the weight of T6061 at a scrape yard for $0.75c. You can make 100 plates with different off centers before you go blow $72 from SPL.

Lockout kits are entirely a waste of money and not needed...

The important thing is to properly lube/clean the rear bolts so they properly tighten the adjusters. I see cars with a ton of corrosion in the threads and even tight they are not really applying proper TQ to hold the eccentrics in place.

At Wilmington autox last weekend I ran stock camber front, 1.5 rear, 0 toe front and 1/8 total toe rear. Car was surprisingly neutral, maybe a touch of under steer that given more time I can dial out with tire pressures and shock settings. Using 275 square ad08rs on stock rims with front sway for c street class.

Thanks man. So 1.5 rear is what I'm doing. I guess only difference is you have 0 front toe and 1/8" total rear where I'm thinking of 1/8" total front toe and 0 rear toe. I have been reading more and more about how having a little out front toe helps turn in during autox. Do you think with toe out, your car will handle even better? Hows your highway driving stability?

Disagree. After a few times of slippage you'd torque as tight as you could to correct the problem but my friends still have issues. If you read what I wrote its not a waste of money.

How did you like your alignment setting?

I ask because I'm having my alignment checked. I run BS in autox, with Konis and hotchkis front bar, sport package, but 18" wheels (F14s) on re71 tires (275/35 square).

Current setup is as follows:

Front camber: -1.25/-1.0 (not adjustable)
Front Toe: 6min toe out (.1 deg, .031in)
Rear Camber: -1.75/-1.75
Rear Toe: 18 min toe in (0.3 deg, .094in)

It was suggested (by an experienced, but non-370z guy) that I should change rear camber to -2 and rear toe closer to 0. After reading up on here, it seems like people say -1.5 or -1.8 is better.

I was thinking of making the following change:

Front: no change
Rear Camber: no change
Rear toe: 0-5 min (.083 deg) leaning toward 5

What does everyone think?

I ended up only changing the rear toe to 4 min toe in. Took it for a test drive in an abandoned parking lot and it seemed to do better in a sweeping turn. Nothing drastically different, but it rotated slightly better. I'll know for sure after the next autocross. :driving:

This is a solid spec expecially on OEM suspension. :tiphat: