Better track car? 370z or 240SX
 

Hi guys, I have both cars and wonder what would be the faster car around the track with around 8-10k in upgrades?

240sx 2740lb w/ stock sr motor 220hp
370z 32XX lb w/ stock vq37 332hp

Easily the Z.. throwing 10k into the Z would make it even more ridiculous on a track.

This is assuming if you were putting 10k into suspension/tires work only.

I wonder how he would do with a SR20DET motor tho... that would probably cost 8ish. And if he was doing drag only I wouldnt be sure.

sr swap would cost me under 3k and leave me 5-7k left for more mods

Are you talking a S13 or S14???

The Z umm no. The 240 would be a much better track car because of it's weight, and power you can put under the hood of those cars.

S14

That's a really obvious question.

The 240 can be made quicker than the 370 since all the parts for it are cheaper.

^+1, also with 8-10k in mods, a rb20det is not out of the question. A 240 with a skyline engine will do wonders on track.

However the z poses as a great daily driver, and I am 100% sure it is wayyyy more comfortable, appealing, quiet, smooth, ect, ect.

With 8 to 10k thrown at them either will be a great track car ... however the 240 will hold the avantage of being 500lbs lighter which I think will be a considerable plus for it.

No offense, but have you guys ever seen a fast 240sx at the track? The car has a chassis that is soft like butter. It can't support any big tires without big mod. The only good thing about a 240sx is that they are cheap and you can crash it without crying after. Let's not even get into how bad the suspension geometry is....

I still haven't seen any 240sx coming close to any of my lap times with a stock 350z

I don't know if it's so "obvious." Just because a car is older doesn't mean its aftermarket hipo parts are cheaper.

We can start comparing prices between the two right now if you'd like.

I'm waiting...where's the YAWN icon?

Yes plenty of them. Obviously you haven't.

The suspension on the 240 is very good and the car is very light.

Certainly have not since most of them are either in car shows or drag racing. The suspension on the 240 is soft, you need to spend thousands of dollars to get a decent suspension package under the car. It also doesn't include the money you have to spend in strengthening the chassis. By the time you get everything done, you either have a car that is not streetable or you would have spent so much money that you are better off buying a new car. The only good thing about those cars is that you can crash and junk it and not feel any financial hurt from it. Heck, that's assuming you will be alive after a crash given how old and poor the chassis is.

If you don't believe me, look at any professional racing series, see how many 240sx you see. I don't see any in autox, track days, club racing or any other.

Drifting is not racing.

Yeah sorry I dont see any racing 240s either. Drifters yeah, but as cossie said...that's almost as far from racing as basketball is.

Also for the sake of reliability, I would start with the newer, more rigid chassis. Lots of "small issues" plague race cars that start from older models. Its only logical as time takes its toll.

My vote also goes to the newer, more powerful Z. Do you want to spend your money getting a motor swap or making the car faster around the track?

Not to mention that N/A cars are more reliable and are less prone to overheat. Not to mention they have a flatter torque curve. Less moving parts to break. Better response.

Don't forget the Z is making 315whp with simple bolt on's. The 240 wont make that without bigger turbo which will be more $. By adding the bigger turbo you add lag and lower reliability even more. Then you will worry about your new used motor blowing up.

The 240 may be lighter...but once you add the hardware to make any decent power not only is part of your track budget gone, but the weight difference has been cut.

Then you need to add decent brakes for the track, BBK's arent cheap. More of your budget is gone and the weight difference goes down even more.

Assuming you dont run into any maintenance issues (highly highly unlikely when doing a motor swap on a used car with a used motor), you will still end up with an inferior car 10k in.

Not even close...

10k in the 370 = 315whp NA, coilovers, swaybars, wheels, tires, oil cooler, camber control arm kits, brake pads, rotors, fluid and lines, diff.
10k in the 240 = headache.

drifting=figure skating. when you use judges rather than scientific measurement, you are in trouble...

I only read this thread out of boredom. A 240sx would have never crossed my radar as a race car. I could see a 370z in the hunt for GT3 points in Europe. I don't think it would cut it against the stiff competition in GT2. The 240sx? Never crossed my radar.

Judging from the poster, he is not doing any big time racing with it. There aren't many series in the $10K range that will allow you to run turbos anyway.

first off lets just talk about cost.

for the amount of money you intend to put into a 370z you can have an insane 240sx.

just imagine being able to spend 28k on a 240sx.

if you get the Z and you start modding you'll be into the low 40's when your done.

hell just contact fullrace for a 240sx with a skyline drivetrain swap. and you'll be about even cost wise. however the 240sx will have around 600hp from an RB26 and awd. and much less weight.

the 370z is a much better DD.

personally i could live with a S15 look alike with a full custom interior and 600awhp for 40k.



or if you need NA power just go with a LS1 or LS6 transplant. do the NA build and you'll still have tons of cash to spend on the exterior, interior to make it look sick, very comfortable and a nice cruiser.

stock for stock the 370z blows away the 240sx on the track of course.
but when you even the amount of money spent the 240sx would be in a class all its own above the 370z.

seriously if you bought a 370z outright along with mods you are looking at low 40's for a full setup.
wheels, tires, brakes, aero, suspension, go fast, weight reduction.
if you spent 40k on a 240sx the S chassis car would annihilate the Z.


even if you go basic the 240 still has the edge, you could do top of the line everything and still be under the cost of the 370z.
im talking 3 way adjustable coilovers, engine swap, carbon ceramic brakes, chassis mods and bracing the whole 9 yards.

oh and even if you go with a iron block turbo engine a 240sx weighs about 2500lbs for the S13. and the S14 weighs maybe 50lbs more?. the Z weighs 3300lbs. so weight goes the the S chassis as well.

Apparently, someone forgot to tell that to the Nissan engineers when they put our cars together :p

I think for most people, spending 28K on top of the price of a used car is fairly outrageous.

You're missing alot of key components in your little build up as well. What about tuning, and all the custom fabrication with all these engines you just plan on throwing in. A lot of these parts you mention need custom parts, not to mention beefing up the drivetrain. If you can do most of this stuff, well thats great. However, having seen many custom setups, they're constantly in and out of the shop. Unless you have a team of automotive engineers, you're pretty much constructing a new car.

I agree that a well built s13-14 body custom car is definitely quite the project, but at this point, would you even consider it to be a 240sx anymore? Any X amount of money can be put in a car to make it better than the other.

For what it is worth, a 240SX held the lap record for a closed wheel car (might still have the record) at the road course I use to drive at. They may not be fast out of the box, but they can be made to go very fast around a race track.

If cost is out of the question, then you can make a Geo Metro fast. The question is what is the point? You will never be able to make it fast enough to win in any classes at any level of racing, especially in 2009. From SCCA, NASA, FIA to even local time trial events, you will almost never be able to build a car to spec to win anything. Before you start wasting your money, you might want to check the rulebook to see what is allow and what isn't. Racing is a different animal than your typical street light races, your $10K budget is not realistic enough to beat any well tuned car. Heck you are going to have a tough time keeping up with a fairly stock Z. HP to weight ratio is important, but HP is still key to break the wind at high speed courses. This is why a Z can outrun an Elise easily at tracks with long straights, no ifs and buts about it.

1) The main reason you don't see many in track days, etc is most of them do not have the power to keep up with the bigger cars.

2) They do handle and it does not take that much to make them even handle better. I know someone who is a instructor that has one and races it. He loves taking the vettes, and other cars without a issue and he never did much with the suspension till recently.

3) Most 240s are into Drifting than anything now.

In all honesty I think that the Nissan Cube would be the best balanced track car with the right engine swap. The rear door is hinged so you can easily add an LS1 from the curb.

You mean 45k in the 370z
vs
13k in the 240

I would take the 13k in a 240 any day of the week. Get a SR20DET for $1k or less and it is more of a stout engine than the VQ is period. It can and will handle boost, and track abuse just fine. No tuning needed, just a swap. Upgrade to a 5 bolt system on the 240, put 350z Brembos on the car for $1000, get the other stuff and it will run you under $10k.

You don't buy a new track car so it gets abused. You buy a older one and use it for the track. Get over thinking your Z is the best thing since sliced bread dude. I own a NISMO 350Z and know the 240sx can and will take my butt around a track setup correctly. Seen it done many times. 2500 lb vs 3300+ is a huge difference in the racing world.

In 2005 the Nissan 240SX driven by John Saurino took first place at the '2005 Sports Car Club of America National Championship;' this gave Nissan its 87th national championship title since 1967.

Nissan Adds to SCCA Runoffs Championships Total with John Saurino's Nissan 240SX GT3 Victory; Nissan Wins Record 87th National Championship Title since 1967 | Business Wire | Find Articles at BNET

Guess it can't handle huh?

The car has more than $40K invested in it, real good investment and real streetable.....

2001 Nissan 240SX SCCA GT3 lightweight. Nationally competitive car. Excellent condition. Two Rebello full boogie L20b motors, one 0 hours new. 50 MM Mikunis (no restrictors) at 1850 lb with driver, 1685 lb dry. 11.89 1/4 @ 118. Several lap records at Buttonwillow. Two 5 speed dog type race transmissions: Schwitters & Saenz. Speedway Quick Change Mini diff w/Variloc. Carbon body & interior. Latest Neely tube frame chassis. AP brakes. Koni adjustable coilovers. 8 Panasports. Many mechanical and body spares. Car has California DMV kit car registration. I love this car, but my work schedule precludes racing for the rest of the year. So rather than collect rust, it's for sale (way less than just the parts cost): $40,000 everything.
email: rik at zpeedz dot com

CAR FEATURE>> S14 TRACK CAR - Speedhunters

Heres a nicely setup s14 track car

You ever see those people put ads of their highly modified cars that can break 11's in the 1/4, they got dyno sheets that show 650hp+, receipts, blah blah blah....And they want "only" 1/2 of what they claimed to have spent i.e. the trite, "my loss, your gain"-->pipe dream.

Any smart person who worked their butt off to accumulate $30+K in cash for a car, isn't going to let their blood, sweat and tears go down the drain on a used car that has no warranty, is most likely a money pit, and is de facto someone trying to dump their problems onto you.

Spending $28K on a used car so that it can "blow a new 370 out the water" = pyrhic victory

I rather spend $28k on a used car than spend $40k on a new car and then spend all the extra money on it to fix it up as well and have something happen to it, and it's all gone. :rolleyes:

No I dont mean that. He already has the cars. He is wondering which one should he invest the 10k on. You live in a fantasy world. The reason you dont see 240s on the track inst because they are underpowered. Not a single trackday goes by that I dont see at least 3-5 Miatas...those are underpowered too. Hmmmm

Also, DUDE, I dont think my Z is the best thing since sliced bread, watch here who makes things personal right off the bat. Don't blame me later and then decide to give me bad rep since your feelings get hurt crybaby. Also...it may not be a porsche, but it sure as hell is better than that Nismo of yours.

You dont have a clue about the costs associated with doing what you want him to do. He may get a half assed car for the 10K, but then you have to do SO much more to get the car up to spec. Did you think about the clutch + Labor? Labor for brakes? Labor for the swap? Tuning cost?(oh wait you said NO tuning, so I guess the car is going to make like 250hp at the motor, congrats) Wheels to clear the brembos? Tires? Brake pads? wiring harness? chassis stiffening? new diff to handle power? Probably will need new tranny to handle added power and track abuse? Labor for all that? coilovers? corner balancing? no those things arent necessary right?

What if he gets a bad motor for the swap and it blows? What do you tell him then? Sorry dude...that wasn't supposed to happen...oh another $1000 in labor...thats still under 10k right?

You can do all that BS you are talking about or you can tell the guy to have a nice reliable weekend racer which he can enjoy and then drive back home. You talk in theory about swaps and crap, but you dont look at the big picture that is reality. A friend of mine just got his car back 2 days ago after 2 years of headaches from doing a swap...and he works at a shop that does swaps as their MAIN business.

Im tired of you and your attitude, it doesn't help anyone.

Pretty obvious you have no clue about 240s. I do look at the big picture as I have done a lot of work on 240s, 350z, G35s, any Nissan for that matter and been around them for 20 years. A swap on a 240 will take less than a weekend to do. They are very easy to do. The brakes $1000, a clutch $1000 at the most, It comes with a wiring harness. If you knew anything you would know the diff in the 240 is just like ours. :rofl2: The R200.

Oh I am laughing at your post about what if the motor blows. Ok $1000. What if your 370z motor blows, oh $10k.

They handle the power just fine. Now go back to your little quiet hole and learn about your 370z. When you do stuff to a car you do it yourself so you learn. You don't race a car and have a shop do all the work for you. Oh but I guess you don't want to get your hands dirty.

Here RCR, little history lesson for ya..

Z33 - MT - R200 - 3.538
Z33 - MT - R200V - 3.538
Z33 - AT - R200V - 3.357
Z32TT - R230V - 3.692
Z32 - R200V - 4.083
G35 - Sedan - AT - R200 - 3.357
G35 - Sedan - MT - R200V - 3.538
G35 - Sedan - AWD - AT - R200 - 3.357
G35 - Coupe - MT - R200V - 3.538
G35 - Coupe - AT - R200 - 3.357
G35 - Coupe - AT - R200V - 3.357
Q45 - G50 - R200V - 3.538
Q45 - FY33 - R200V - 3.692
R32 GTR - RB26DETT - MT - F160 - 4.111 - (Front Final Gear)
R32 GTR - RB26DETT - MT - R200 (Mechanical LSD) - 4.111
S15 - MT - R200H - 3.692
S15 - AT - R200V - 3.916
S14 - KA24DE - 4.083
S14 - SR20DET - MT - R200V - 3.692
S14 - SR20DET - AT - R200V - 3.915
S13 - KA24DE - 4.083 - (Both R200 and R200V

Follow whoever's advice makes more sense Brazilbro.

Thanks for the bad rep NISMOZ.

Way to advice people to tune their own cars too by the way. That makes a lot of sense genius.

How many times have you been to the track and running, not reading about it on magazine? Just curious.

Going back to what RCZ and I said, how many full interior 240sx actually run on the track at the amateur level?

I am sorry, but going fast on the track isn't as simple as slapping on a big motor.

if anybod puts 28K in a 240 for a track car is an idiot. Just go flush the money down the toliet. Because that car will be in the shop more than on the track..

Thats what I've been trying to say....