Summit Point Shenandoah with Track Club USA
 

Two days of glorious open track (6 hours track time a day). Aside from some overheating issues and a couple of mis-shifts I had a great time.

Nice, I never ran the short course as I had always use the pit straight, so can't make any direct comparison. What datalogger did you get? Was your car catching air under the bridge? I saw a little lag in speed under there. I actually spun there one time in the rain on my outlap, I was saved by the caroussel

I borrowed a friends datalogger for a couple of sessions, I believe it is the MaxQ software logger. He was a bit over a second faster around the course in his C6 Corvette.

Yes the car would briefly spin the tires going over the crest, I took it a little easy in the couple of damp sessions we did until the tires had some heat.

Apparently not that many of the clubs run the pit straight as a screw up there sends you straight into the wall, LOL.

I was actually almost 3 sec slower in my C6 than my 350Z, but the 350 had RA1 and the C6 had run flats. Yeah the pitwall was really close, but that's where I was setting up my passes as no one knew how to take it.

I just reviewed my logs, it looks like I lifted too, but you hit the bridge straight much quicker/deeper than I did. You were way quicker at the karussel too as I hit a low of 33 mph where you never dropped below 45. I think you can pick up time down the backstraight away by going in deeper, there is a lot of grip there. Of course there isn't much run off....

This C6 has R6's, Penske coilovers, coilovers and AP Racing brakes :)
Here is video from his session, the white car in the distance is me, he sees me pit out at around the 9:00 mark and tries to real me in. I was on NT-01's at the time, he was on R6's.
TCUSA at Summit Point Shenandoah Circuit - YouTube

This was a demanding track, some of the high horsepower cars (Mustangs etc) were getting stomped on by prepped Miata's.

I managed to avoid being passed in that video ^_^ Was very nice meeting you and seeing your car in action. I do think the 1 series is at fault for your high temps. I'm going slower on street tires, but didn't ever get close to needing a cool down lap like in the video.

Here's one of my (low quality) videos from the same day; chasing down one of those high powered Mustangs. 10 Minutes on Shenandoah Circuit - YouTube

God damn, HD exhaust!! I almost went deaf with my headset.

It seems like the car has way more than 400HP. Is the powertrain stock or does he have a LS3? The acceleration on it seems to be much better than a 400HP C6. You outdrove him quite a bit, that car has plenty more in it.

My friend popped out of the carussel and went into the tire wall. I also popped out in a Lotus but I didn't hit anything. I swore not to go back there again after that.

I've moved the oil cooler hard up against the radiator so we'll see what that does. I think mainly I need bigger lines, the -8 lines that it came with aren't giving enough flow.

It was good to finally have another Z on track, and I'm sorry I didn't get to give you a ride to show you what sticky tires feel like on the car.

Nice and consistent in the video BTW.

He has a nice microphone to pick up the loud exhaust in detail :)

He has stock C6 engine, headers, and bi-modal exhaust, he might have a cam as well but I can't remember. He dyno'd at 380whp, so he has almost 100hp on me at roughly the same weight.

I didn't push the car super hard in the carousel, as I was afraid of the consequences. Plus I was already scraping the exhaust on entry as it was. The fastest Miata pulled about 2 car lengths on me through the carousel as he was crazy fast through there, I would get 1 back on the up hill.

Thanks, though it might be a good to avoid tire crack while I work on the driver mods.

Could be the lines, everyone with a Z1 kit has beefy AN -10, but I didn't think you had a thermostatic sandwich plate. So 100% of the flow should be directed to the oil cooler. Pressure will be higher with smaller lines but volumetric flow the same. Reductio ad absurdum if your lines were ten times larger, would you expect lower temps?

No thermostatic plate, however if I recall there might be a bypass. Also during the last oil change a ball bearing and a spring fell out, not sure if it was the plate or the back flow preventer in the filter as I mangled the filter pretty good trying to get it off.

Line size is only an issue if the line in the most restrictive point, if the cooler was the most restrictive point then increasing line size would be useless. The core was designed for up to -12 so I think -8 might be a little small.

That's what I thought, stock LS2 C6 dynos around 345rwhp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEZpF1KfUOw). I couldn't figure out if I was driving slow or if that car was that much faster.

Yeah, I still have parts of my C6 around that corner somewhere. I hate to say it, it's a lot easier to fly in there when you are driving a car that you can replace with $3000 dollars.

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My memory from that track, much lower in quality, slower and much quieter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i9HmiznQ4o

Awesome video man... really looks like a lot of fun! We were just talking about classes and such on another thread, but it looks like you were doing pretty well with the C6... I guess that is a car that on paper is supposed to beat the Z? I don't know much about the classes and such except for which cars are where.

Summit Point Shenandoah was designed as a instructional track, as such it is fairly tight with not that much in terms of high speed sections. It makes the track more of a handing track than a power track and as such the fast Miata's were steamrolling the high horsepower but heavy supercharged Mustangs. The Corvette and myself had similar weight and were pretty close in terms of handling around here (he has expensive coilovers and a few mods). He was quick through most of the corners but I had a couple of places that I could make up time and he would toast me in the straights unless I got a really good exit the corner before. On a fast track like VIR or Watkins Glen he will be a good 5 or 6 seconds faster than me. I guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks when we hit WGI together.
If anyone is interested in signing up as a student this is the club: COM Sports Car Club
WGI is a little more expensive than most events but it is a huge track.

our little debate in the other thread ended up being RedZed and some of us talking about tracks and that his WRX has beaten the Z on some courses, where on the higher hp tracks it was a bit different.

I've had 2 Evo's so I know how quick they are even though i've never had one on a track. His point was that with the wider tires the Z has over the WRX makes it unfair, but with 265's on it he can run much quicker than a Z. My point was that with a computer controlled car (Symmetrical system Suby uses) that levels the playing field with the wider tires IMO. Hard to beat an AWD car with a comp that constantly monitors and transfers torque where it needs to be.

Yes the AWD system can make up for the smaller tire size especially around weird corners where RWD cars struggle for traction. The exit of Turn 3 at NHMS is a perfect example of this, if I follow a Subi an Evo or god help me a GT-R through there they smoke me on the exit, but in more steady state corners I am quicker. Stock for stock I think the Z is slightly faster than the Subi and Evo, but once they start playing with the boost it all changes. In the stock classes they aren't allowed to touch the tune, but in the prepared classes it is anything goes. The Evo and STi are in my class but haven't beaten me yet. There is a 500whp monster STi headed to WGI so I fully expect to get smoked there. I don't care, I only have to complete 1 timed lap to win the class for the year.

P.S. At the track event on Mon/Tues a kid with a new Evo came up to me and told me he was impressed with how quick the Z was. I told him it wasn't really a fair comparison as my car had coilovers and better tires, but even in a straight line the Z was pulling the Evo pretty hard. I think he was having a little doubt about he choice of vehicles, LOL. If I had to daily drive the car through the Winter then I think I would have considered a Subaru or an Evo pretty seriously.

Method-- I didnt both bringing this up in the other thread amidst all the madness, but the wrx doesn't have the fancy vectoring systems or anything you see in the Sti or evo. There's a viscous coupling front to rear, open on both axles.

But it is a computer controlled viscous coupling, unless you set it manual mode. You are right though, the Evo system is far more complex with the computer using yaw sensors and wheel speed sensors to adjust output to every wheel, not just front to back.

No, it doesn't have all the stuff the STI and Evo do, but it does still have that symmetrical system in it. As I said before, I was close to getting a WRX, but the tranny issues they have had with them in the past sort of scared me away, along with the fact that the numbers were a little closer with getting a Z to my old Evo. BUT... as I said before too, the Z has quite a limited aftermarket for NA mods... i'm going to do them, but after that... that's it. I know how addictied I get to modding so my choice of this car was for my own bank account and sanity :tup:

P.S. I didn't bring it up here as to argue ... it was just because it seemed more appropriate of a thread to talk about it.

Not trying to argue either sir:tup:


It was tough not to bring up that thread after seeing the prosolo d stock wrx about six-tenths ahead of the c stock z though :rofl2:

Wrx doesn't have the dccd that's in the Sti. It's just a 50:50 viscous coupling. No computer control that I know of.

I was thinking STi, that's my main competition.

only way wrx can outrun a z at the track stock and with same driver is if it is in the rain or snow....

passing some dude on the track doesnt really matter given you dont know what skill level the other person is at

This is true. However I've run with some skilled STi drivers (instructors) with lightly modded cars (coilovers, sways, intake etc) and they can't keep up. In the rain it is usually role reversal.

it makes sense as i believe z is a faster car under most circumstances, also you need hp to go fast. the z has more and it is an advantage. i have seen many stis and evos on the track, their accelerationis amazing, but they all seem to run out of breathe at about 120mph.

Top end is usually pretty limited. Tracks like VIR rape the wrx. Tighter stuff usually turns out pretty favorably though. Especially if the track prep is not ideal.

sti yes, not wrx. you are still down a ton of power no matter how you look at it. my 370 has 40 more hp than the 350, the difference is quite big under acceleration, especiallhy as the speeds get higher. i believe i have a picture of it posted somewhere

You know the wrx and Sti lay down essentially identical power numbers, right? They dyno within 4-5 hp of each other, with the WRX having a fatter torque curve. The spec sheet numbers are separated to help people justify the cost of the trans/etc that you get with the Sti.

The boost begins to taper if I remember correctly around 6300 rpms? I could be off a little, but I don't think I am on that. I know that a GSR is limited to 155 as I think our cars are as well stock? I think 172-178 or so is the top speed for the 5 speed GSR. The MR i'm not sure about with the extra gear, but IMO it's not smart to race the MR anyway as the trans does get pretty hot in the X and in the VIII's and IX's the MR has thinner gears which break more often because of adding that 6th gear. I'm sure you all probably knew all of that already anyway.

I had my old X up to about 140 or so I guess and yes it took a little while to get there... I had 380 whp with the X, my IX only had a few bolt on's and no tune, so obviously one did get there a little quicker lol.

Stock for stock I can say most definitely the Z is a faster car, but without having the AWD i'm always more safe approaching a corner at a speed that is close to what I would do in my X... just not really sure of the car yet.. it's only got about 2300 miles on it right now anyway... i'll get the feel of it :)

The STI IMO is an overpriced car for the performance you get... which is really good performance, but when compared to the 10k less WRX that STI should be running high 12's and the suspension should be revamped to leave the WRX in the dust.... just my opinion. I think the Evo is/was an overpriced car as well, the inside of it and the paint are cheaper than any car i've seen. Some think the Z's paint is bad? LMAO!! Look at any Evo that is a DD and has 5-10k miles on it.

the 2011 wrx i assume? if they make the same power, sure the difference would be a lot smaller obviously. still, the sti's suuspension and awd are way superior, you can easily see the difference when you observe how much the wrx plows.

i am sure the wrx is improved in everyway and they have narrowed the gap to the sti and it would be easy to say you can mod a wrx to be faster than a sti. it might be true at the drag strip. as a track and autoz nut, i can tell you almost none of the modified wrx drive as fast as a sti. you can sink 5000 into it and it would still have a tough time running away from the sti. the new one is probably not as bad, but its always funny to see guys who spent tons of money on their wrx and then get beat by a sti

methical, no track in the us would have enough space for the sti or 370 to hit 150 stock. the awd all lack top end because they have less hp, shape like my house, short ratio gearbox. it has nothing to do with the limiter.

No, I was just saying that is where it is limited is all. The X was quite bulky up front and I never did quite figure out that whole reasoning for the boxy front. It sort of looked cool to me before, but now it's just sort of... well not lol

When I've ridden in a stock Evo X it feels like I'm riding in a minivan - the seat position is so high! Is it just the car ride height or is it the seats?

ummm, I don't know... it really depends I guess on how tall you are because other guys have said that they feel like the car is lower and they couldn't see out of the side window very well. I think it's probably the ride height... but i'm a hair over 5'9, so i'm not sure.

Evo rides high. Roof is pretty high too, which adds to the feeling.

On the other hand, I can fit in the car with a helmet on, which is nice.

The door sills were really high yes, I could see that being a problem. I'm 6'1, but there was lots of headroom.

Dam, were where all you guys on the other tread?? LOL. I cant believe we are still having this fight abouta WRX being faster then a 370 around the track. Red_Zed you said that the WRX and the STI put down around the same HP to the wheels. How is this possible? The STI makes like what? 35-40hp more? The WRX and STI have almost the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times because of the gear ratios. The Rex needs only one shift to hit 60 and the STI needs 2.

How do you run in the Z? If I keep it, I think I'm gonna have to swap the drivers seat.

It is a snug fit. I had a problem at Summit Point because every time I went over the crest and got a little air my head would hit the roof and crunch my neck. Had to recline the seat one click to make it more comfortable. Seats and harnesses will likely be my next mod.

What did you run in the 1/4 mile?