My dilemma also: M235ix or '15 370z Nismo
 

My dilemma also: M235ix or '15 370z Nismo..

I'm coming off a lease soon from a G37X.. I will not be looking back.
Prior to this I drove the crap out of a Yellow 09 6MT 370Z Spt/Tour - Loaded with every option, I just started having electrical issue which has moved me into leasing. That's the back story...

I recently freely, no sales rep in car, drove the BMW M235i (non x drive) in 8 spd auto and all I can say is damn it I want it.. but the looks of the car doesn't even come close to the new '15 Nismo's sexy lines.
I know the nismo is going to be more rigid, louder interior and have the slower sloppy 7AT shifts - (exhale) it is so sexy though!

I'm looking to get out of the 6MT and into the paddle shifting of the newer cars.. Before the whole "connection to the drive" arguments drop, I have my zx10R to have fun with gears.. I enjoy my cigar and coffee and live in a small city so standard gets old quick. Now as far as the options on the Bimmer well all I can say is I was so connected to the vehicle and acclimated to the paddle shifters in minutes. I fell in love with it.. The amount of torque that is delivered so earlier was very impressive. The steering is neutral, balanced.
Drive postion was flawless and round cabin seeing was good. The adaptive suspension took the bumps very very composed. Setting the car in Sport+ I was touching speeds in 100+mph on my test drive. The car felt like I was doing 60 and then I said to my self... where do I sign?

Now remembering back to my 09 Z I loved driving that car. It looked great, braked well, held the road like it was on rails.. I guess it comes down to raw and sexy vs refined smooth. They both cost about the same at the $45-$47K point.

Now for the wrench... The potential of the M2 and the Next Gen Z (3.0 Twin Turbo) and also the Q60.. I might buy a rat rod just to bide my time until I can work thru my mental block... a 36 month lease is along time to date the wrong chick.

- Anyone out there that's had their a$$ in both of the cars I wrote about, PLEASE let me her your opinion.. Thanks

Brandon - Please PM me with any tunes you do to the M235i, ie JB, Dinan S1,
And Congrats - It's a PREFECT Road car....

I started to write about the M235i but it turned into a novel. Let's just say I test drove one on a whim, with zero expectations, and have not stopped thinking about it since.

The NISMO and M235i are two completely different cars. Do you want a refined, comfortable daily driver that still offers tons of performance, or do you want a raw sports car with fewer features?

IMO, the 2015 Nismo is the same as it was in 2009, save for interior enhancements and the new body design. At $46k+ it's a waste of money to me. Aside from the seats and the body kit it offers no additional performance over a regular 370Z Sport.

I feel like you get more for your money with the BMW, but ultimately it depends on what you want out of your car.

Owned both here in Germany. Traded my Z on the M235i. I loved my Z and I dont miss it. Thats not a bad thing either. They are both good driving cars. You clearly will be served well by the M235i. IF you think M2 thats not close just yet and the power increase is not going to be night and day but there will be a big 'delta' in price. Drive the M235i again and then buy it
:ughdance::happydance:

I have an Alpine White M235i and I love it. Posted pics here sometime ago. SO far bullet proof reliable, great dealer and the car is a blast in all modes/conditions. With power/torque and useable space etc, its the best car for a do it all daily/fun sportscar you can get. I wont tune mine it doesnt need it and I have the Autobahn to enjoy :)

Very cool responses guys..
I really wish Nissan would bring adaptive suspension, twin turbos to a 3.0 6 cyl
and a better slush box, twin clutch or even refine it like BMW single which is seamless.
The nismo needs to make 375HP and 350 TQ to be priced at the $47 mark..

Well once spring comes around I'm gonna start hitting up the test drives..
I feel though it's gonna be an Esortil Blue M235ix with Coral Red leather or a yellow M2 - lol...
I have it quoted at $45K with some nice options and of course being in the Northeast the AWD is a plus.. but not a deal breaker..

Let me ask you m4a1mustang.. Did you order it with the performance summer tires and is the top speed limit removed to allow 155mph.. It is my understanding the the car comes unlimited (to 1555) but when optioned with x drive or all season tires they drop it to 130mph..

THANKS in advance.

I would disagree with Mustang on the 2015 being the same as the 2009. The 2015 with its chassis tuning and wider stance is vastly better than the 2009. BUT. it is still not quite a 235. The 235 is the better car. Better potential.

You actually agree with me, but I didn't necessarily express my opinion clearly enough. Maybe I will finish my 235i novel tonight and post it. :p

I actually haven't ordered one. It's under consideration, though. :icon17:

If your not in a hurry, just leave your name and phone number and circle it in front of the dealer and tell them to call you if they want to sell it for the price you stated.

I sat in the M235 at the DC car show. It was a nice car and the interior was really nice. For that price point it beats the Nismo handily. BUT the GT 350 Mustang was really hot too! Threw that in to get the haters hating.

The GT350 is going to be a hell of a car! I'm not sure how good of a daily driver it would be, though.

As a DD for the GT350, probably not.....but for me I only drive for fun on weekends or the week for a doctor appt or something. Its not quite enough to make me get rid of the 997 911 C4S, but its tempting IF it really performs as its supposed too AND its priced at 54K or so.....Now the GT350R.....I don't think that going to be street legal and I bet it will cost 100K. People like me, who remember the car crap of the 70's and 80's in all their smog pump and carburetor glory...appreciate all the great cars we have now. Its a great time now.

Mwagner, I agree with what mustang has said. I don't own a M235 but got to drive one very hard over different types of roads. I was very impressed as it has precise steering, handles great and accelerates very well. It's smooth and quiet of road noise as compared to the Z. It's a car that is engineered very well and has me considering an M car as my next car.

Here's the weird thing though, when I got back into my Z to drive home. I enjoyed driving the Z more. The only performance mod I have, is an exhaust on the Z. I guess the steering feedback (235 is precise but lacks feel) and rawness of the Z is something I never realized I enjoyed that much. Electronic gadgets/features, leather seats don't get me excited but the raw feel of a sports car does. As mustang said above, two completely different cars and it depends on what you want out of your car.

I'm guessing due to the electric steering.....

Yep. Feel in the 235i is good, but not great. It is better than my 335i, which is still pretty decent.

I totally understand your second point. In isolation I think the Z (or really any other sports car) is going to be more fun to drive in anger on a twisty back road. But when you start talking about a car that you will be driving every day, it's hard to beat the balance of the M235i.

m235 vs... my steering wheel is number and more artificial thanyours!!!!

Order the summer tires with the Michelin Pilot Super Sports ensures the higher top speed limiter is applied! Too easy!

:iagree: those things look like a civic on the streets. but too bad the dealer upped the price. im sure op's partially relieved he dont have to drive MT. lol :rofl2:

The new M3 is not well recieved in the Bmmer world, most of them are still sticking to the NA V8 M3.
M235i is not bad, have my eye on it too. I would say the reliability has gone up since the introduction of N55 engine.

What about the Audi S3?

Interesting, is there one, two or a whole bunch of reasons for this?

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This is what I chose after a lot of research and looking at many options. 2014 Mercedes CLA45 AMG. This was not a replacement for my 370, only a more practical alternative (back seat, 4 doors, all wheel drive). Driving both I find it true, the mercedes like the bmw is a very fun car to drive. With 360bhp and all the AMG goodies it hauls ***! But I definitely notice the refined almost artificial feel to driving it. The 370 is raw, mechanical, a drivers car. The AMG is for lack of better term, "video game like" fast, fun, loud, but not real feeling. On a nice sunny day my choice will always be the Z

I think this will be true about all the cars in this class. Audi s3, bwm 235, lexus..... All nice cars but way too many features that take away the primitive feel of the road. Too many gadgets replacing the mechanical feel of the car

M4 I just can't get with a small 2+2 anymore unless you have passengers that are below 10 years old. The back seats are good for extra trunk space I guess. I'm 6'1 though and I hate driving in them and sitting in them just have a bad taste in my mouth for smaller 2+2's like the M2.

I wouldn't get a M235 myself just my opinion.

M235 with a tune. More refined. The Z's we drive is different. Beastlike to drive. Raw. And even if though it has aged, still much sexier between the two.

It's important to understand that the BMW purists are not very receptive to change. Diehard fans of the earlier generations tend to hate whatever the current generation is. When the E9x M3 came about it was not well received by the purists, but now it is looked upon fondly. The same thing is going to happen with the F80/F82. It's just the way the BMW world tends to work, I think.

The main gripe about the F8x M3/4 is the engine. The S55 is a twin turbo take on the N55. While it has been heavily modified, in the purists eyes it isn't a "bespoke" engine like the S65 from the E9x.

They also feel like it has abandoned the M3 formula of a small, nimble, and balanced racing car for the street like the E30. It's too much of a brute. But the truth is the M3 abandoned its E30 formula several generations ago. The E46 was more of a brute than the E36, and the E9x took that a step further. The F8x just continues the trend.

Most of the criticism comes from people that don't own the F8x series. I think as time goes by more of the purists will warm up to it like they did with the E9x. Then when the next generation comes out they can all hate on it.

Most of you guys are hitting on the right points. The M235i is not going to be as raw as the Z or any other "pure" sports car, but of course that is not what it aims to do. It delivers excellent performance while bringing with it refinement and comfort features that many people look for in a daily driver. No doubt it would be a stellar every day car.

The N55 is a fantastic engine! It's not as mod-friendly as the N54, but I think it makes up for it in other ways. Stock for stock it is a better engine, and the efficiency is ridiculous. We averaged almost 37 mpg in our '13 335i M-Sport on the way back from picking it up in North Carolina. Incredible.

I think most of the reliability issues with the N54 were related to the HPFP and the turbos, but BMW took care of those issues.

Have you sat in the back of the 2? There's enough space for adults to fit comfortably for short trips. Headroom is the big issue for taller folks. There's more leg room back there than something like a Mustang.

I'm not overly concerned about the rear seats, but for a DD they'd be nice to have in a pinch. I don't know if a car seat can fit back there easily, but that would be nice, too. Whenever I know I need real back seats I have my wife's 335.

Anyway, I'm not really looking to buy anything right at the moment. I just made the mistake of testing the M235i and was absolutely delighted by it.

I too made the mistake and can't forget about it. I agree with everything Steve said. I also drove an e90 m3 and while extremely excited about it, it just wasn't as light and nimble as the 235i. The '11 m3's weight and stiff suspension was very easily upset and I felt I would barely be able to control it in low traction situations. You had to be very focused to drive that car fast. But it sounded like pure heaven. One of the best sounding cars below 100k (besides 991 C2S with sport exhaust!). It just couldn't serve as a traffic heavy DD.

The m235i was just awesome! Very go cart like. On my 30 minute test drive I often initiated small sweeping drifts, and it was just so controllable, so nice and so precise. And it also sounded great, even if it was fake. I loved every bit of it. The transmission also felt better than the M3 believe it or not. Except the violent shifts in the sportiest mode on the M3 was pretty manly and exciting.

The one I drove was optioned out to 60K, but I think I would have a similar experience with a bare bones. If I were to order one I would just get heated seats and call it a day at $45k. Also for what it's worth my '10 sport touring 6mt 17.5k miles Z was quoted for trade in at 19-20k, but I know I could've brought it up to 22.5-23.

I just hope my test drive of a '15 mustang gt will get my mind off the m235i. Which will save some money on what will essentially be a commuter car.

I suggest holding off till the GT350 is out.....a loaded GT is 46K or so, if the GT350 comes in at low 50's.....that's a better choice. If Its 60's then yes the GT is better for the money, unless you go modding the GT.

More realistically a very nicely optioned GT is around 41-43k MSRP. They sell at around invoice, so you're only paying high 30s.

The GT350s will be going for MSRP, and unless you option it out it will not be a friendly DD.

I swear we must have been brothers in another life.

Here is my take on the 2015 GT:

It's a big step up from the previous car in terms of interior quality and driving dynamics. We all know the engine is fantastic and it goes like hell, so I don't need to talk about that. If you like the retro-modern styling the cabin is a very nice place to be. The materials all have a premium feel, with some exceptions, and the ergonomics are very good. With the tilt/telescope wheel and lower seating position it's much easier to find the sweet spot.

As far as dynamics go, it's much more composed than it ever was thanks to the IRS, which is very well done, and the revised front suspension. It still has some of that old Mustang charm which makes it entertaining to drive, but it's got a lot more refined European GT car mixed in. I think the GT Performance Package has the car set up almost perfectly for street performance use. It's a very capable car. If I had to compare it to something else, it's a bit like a larger and more civilized E92 M3.

That said, I do have some gripes:

Steering wheel: It's far too thin, and the spokes are too thick with all of the buttons. It's not comfortable to grip, and the leather does not feel very pleasant to me. If I had one, I'd have to get the wheel reupholstered with padded, premium leather.

Gauges: They are so much easier to read than before, but "Ground Speed MPH" on the speedometer is so tacky. It really, really bothers me for some reason.

Seats: The standard seats are heated and cooled. They look nice in pictures, but in reality they are so soft that the bolsters don't do anything to hold you in. It's a shame because the only other option is the manual Recaros with no heat.

Materials: Unless you get the 68P (I think that's the code) option, you get the cheap plastic doors. The option adds the soft touch vinyl to the doors so it feels like every other civilized $30k+ vehicle on the market.

If you end up considering a GT, I'd wait for the 2016 MY. The car will get Sync 3 and they should have sorted out some of the QC issues (panel fit and some interior trim problems) by then.

Long story short, the GT did nothing to keep me from thinking about the M235i. Nothing.

Its clear to me after reading this thread, those who have driven the M235i with an open mind see clearly what its about. Those reading reviews and focusing only on the looks wont ever get it and a drive wont happen, as they have already discounted the machine and what it can do.
Good for us who drive it or actually own it. Randy Pobst drove it and I did see his review - he thanked BMW for making a good drivers car. That says alot and overall he gives honest reviews without gushing over the item.
IF I was like alot of people in the car world or here Id never have ordered my 15 WRX-STi either lol! Ugly sure to some. Functional and unique for sure and there is no doubting is superb sound and overall performance and flexibility. Its leaving the dealer for transport to me soon. Cant wait. Best garage Ive had in a while - M235i and 15 WRX-STi on hand. Sux baby lol! :) My car is exactly overall as the one Im attaching now. Same color etc. Should be fun!

Too many people value a car purely by its magazine track times.

+1 and at times I have been victim of that. No question.

I have always tried to keep an open mind though, anytime I was driving a car. Ive rented them to test them as well just to see what they are really like. I love cars and I swear I could find a Yugo exciting if I treid lol!

Haha seriously. I don't think I've ever disagreed with a single one of your posts in the past 5 years. I gotta buy you a beer man!
and considering how we have the same views, I guess I won't be liking the GT nearly as much as the m235i, especially for extended driving times.
I think I'm gonna wait a bit regardless as I'm gonna get a new house and don't want a loan for a car on my record.
Have you driven the M3/M4? Any thoughts on them even if you havnt?

The M4 is a beast. I drove one with the DCT and the amount of torque and power it has on tap at any RPM is pretty ridiculous. On the street it's one of those "half-throttle" cars. You'd never give it all the power in any daily driving situation as you are limited by traction, and when you get it, you're travelling at jail speeds.

I'd love to have one. I just hesitate at the $75,000 price tag. Maybe a used one down the line, but even then the M cars tend to hold value pretty well.

I'm right there with you!

I'm late to the party, but I love my M235i. Best auto transmission car in the world.
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