Lame announcement.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...rmance-partner

My Z06 experience kindof changed how I view "supercars". I have no use for a GT-R (not that it isn't a sick car, I just don't have an application for it. I wouldn't snub one for free or whatever, so lets not go there, but since I don't track my stuff, I just can't put it to use, sorry.) To me, it's a status-icon only, and I don't care about status or reputation beyond the professional. I have found that the 370Z has just about the right amount of performance for me. Would I turn down 50-75hp more? Nah, but it's not necessary. What would I like? Less weight. Better suspension. Better distribution. More traction (although the 370Z is VERY! well balanced for power/traction, as it sits, IMO, when compared to cars like the mustang, challenger, camaro, etc.)

In short, I want a driver's car with decent creature comforts. It's time for a NAV system design update, time for more upscale materials in the interior (polymer developments, etc. make this possible over time without increasing cost), time to fix the weight distribution, time to improve rebound control, maybe an optional MRC type suspension like GM and all the other high-end manufacturers have gone to on their sports cars. GM owns suspension development. Nissan has piggy-backed on Ford for help with their GT-R engine, they need to hit GM up for some suspension tips.

This whole announcement is just confusing to me, what exactly is the direction Nissan is taking here? They are racing experimental cars in Le Mans and a V8 RWD Altima in Australia that you cannot buy. Why in the world aren't they making a push to race something in North America? Why aren't they attempting to make the Z a known car in the racing world? Unless they plan on selling their experimental cars and V8 RWD altimas this entire thing is just insane to me.

They just opened the doors. Give it time. They did a pretty bad-*** car back in the day called the 400R and I think they did a pretty okay job with the Nismo 370. Sure we would all like to see more power & massive turbo's, but it's not always the right choice for a company financially. Nissan isn't about to sink millions into something that doesn't sell. They need to sell the affordable stuff in order to finance and develop the limited run stuff. I highly doubt producing & selling 100 "Nismo GT-R's" could finance the whole operation alone. This is one of the reasons a ton of great tuning companies died out. Great cars/parts, but if the consumers don't buy them, they're done for.

There are huge misconceptions about GT-R's NOT being drivers cars... the purist perspective is usually a narrow perspective with self perpetuated biases... I couldn't even make GTR judgements till i actually push one to the limit.
My observations/perceptions tell me this car when pushed to its limit, is as exciting or even more exciting than an N/A RWD. But that is just an observation that i won't push as anything more.

3800lbs is kind of heavy, but this things are still pretty well balanced and boost really pushes this car hard. The AWD system on the Gt-R allows it some RWD capability. I would like to see some weight reduction on this car. 3500-3600lbs but, People that drive it never say it feels heavy. I'm sure weight reduction would just make it that much sicker.

I agree with everything you said. It's also completely meaningless to me, who doesn't race at the track or do HPDE's, or push anything to 100% of its limit. I'm not Randy Pobst, and I don't need a 360* panoramic tour of the block.

HP is more of an american issue than a JDM issue. If they can push V8 performance numbers on paper while providing a 4 banger like ride they will succeed more than by just reaching some magic hp number to appease the market. 370hp on a 2800lb car would probably feel like more than 415hp on a 3200lb car.
That said, the real goal should be, 12.5 second quarters, staying above 1g, improving torque response and building a lightweight platform with grippy tires and wide wheel width... Which hp number does it? That's a secondary issue.

:iagree:

Although "wide" is not a great thing for road going cars overseas as when I was in Japan the lanes and roads are a little on the narrow side.

I said is much in another post and agree 100%, but HP sells cars, here in America and Nissan isn't selling crap. It's the same reason all these forumites froth at the mouth over the GT-R's mid-2's 0-60. They love the numbers game, even though that's not at all what the car is about in the least.

Not interested in gtr, are you guys even worried the next g z will be a disaster? They barely sell them right now..

I don't care what it is, I refuse to buy another Nissan, but I am sure that on paper it will perform better than the current model, Nissan usually does accomplish that.

I'm really worried brother... I want more than anything for the Z to be a huge competitor in the next gen market. We never addressed the things we should've and what we did address it took too long.

That said. I don't see this current Z as a complete disaster and for whatever reason the American media felt they needed to? I think the Z's shortcomings are over-exaggerated. BUT, we need a formula that has to be bulletproof.

1. Much lighter weight (2800-3000lb range through alum &CF usage expansion)
2. An automatic transmission that can hold up to 500rwhp
3. A smoother short shifting manual.
4. Maintain or improve the 1g/1.01g of grip we currently have
5. Universal brake cooling for all models
6. A body design that can support over 180mph top speeds w/o body kit.
7. A simplified yet very high quality interior.
8. Squeeze an extra foot of trunk space
9. Look at michelin PSS as standard sport tires.
10. Maintain sport pkg width on tires and continue Rays wheel support.
11. Akebono needs to improve on weight reduction and ventilation on the next sport brake.
12. Use high torque F.I. Motor
13. Keep prices as reasonable as possible.

Stay away from

1. electric steering.
2. electric handbrakes
3. Too much digital shyt
4.Adding a clock in the triple gauge cluster

What you are describing is a corvette. And all that will turn into the price of a Corvette. Electric power steering is already on the vehicle. And They have no reason to make another transmission that can hold 500whp that what is on the GTR. Manufacturers build to a requirement and there is no incentive to use the expensive parts needed to upgrade their 7sp to hold that kind of power. In reality, it's torque that breaks things, not horsepower.

The FM platform is made of steel, it's the main reason Z's weigh 32-3300lbs. Switch that to aluminum and weight will go down, but expect prices to jump. Lightweight cars don't need a lot of torque. If weight is dropping to your 2800-3000 lbs, 300lbft would feel like a lot. I do agree that the Z would be better on different tires. PSS's, Re11's AD08's, a serious track tire if it's a SP or Nismo. I don't think a base model would need all the extra track cooling things you want, but I can def see it on sport and Nismo models.

1. Electric steering is on the Vette. I said we need to stay away from that. Which would equal cost reduction
2. I said increase usage of CF and Alum. Not build the car of Alum and CF. The vette chassis is all aluminum.
3. I when i said more torque, notice I didn't specify Hp and TQ numbers because I don't even know what They friggin plan on putting in the Z.
But, if you are going to maintain or increase the grip on the current car???? Torque will help alot. I like the fact that the Z on launch feels like a muscle car. And I don't want it to feel like a BRZ. So torque for me means near equal number to its HP rating. ie. 320hp/320lbs tq. On 3k lbs? That don't mean shyt.
The vette is 3100 lbs w/a shytload of torque. As it stands right now. Our cars are heavier. A $3,000 price increase for a competitive car? I'm not crying.
4. simplifying the interior as far as computer BS should save a lot of money over the current car. No need for $2200 nav options when we can have a simplified $800 unit. things enthusiasts DONT need. We dont need electric doo dads like elec steering and brakes either. All costly fluff.

Keep the money in the chassis and sport pkges.

We have a variable electric steering unit in our cars. Electric power steering has also gotten very inexpensive, improves gas mileage, and horsepower. I don't see manufacturers retaining hydraulic. If the base price for a Z is 33k and the base price for a Vette is closer to 50k, that's significant. If we use the Nismo instead, we are still off by around 8k. If you propose to reduce weight by 200-400lbs without switching to an aluminum chassis, it's impossible with the safety regulations. The use of carbon fiber is incredibly cost prohibitive and will send the price through the roof. Affordable carbon fiber is a relative term, and the cost for OEM's to use it is still very high. Regarding the NAV unit, like you said, it is an option. We don't need it, we have phones. The rest of the car world is turning their nav systems all fancy, if Nissan does not improve their tech side, it will only be another pitfall. The Vette has a lot of avenues to recoup development funds. The have their own racing team, and parts sharing is very high. There is no import tax to contend with and they build 10's of thousands a year. The Z doesn't make Nissan enough money on the Z to make a dedicated chassis. Now they can price a Nismo Z 10-20,000 higher than a normal one, make that chassis aluminum, throw a bunch of go fast parts and have that go battle with the serious fish in the business. Then make a base model with more basic amenities and reduced power to hit the low end of the market ($30k) A lot of this is just my opinion on the matter. I wish the same things are you do, but it will be far fetched to see some of it come to fruition.

You make some valid points but in reality. A beefier auto will help increase sales of the Z. Nissan went on record in 09 bragging about there 440hp threshold. Sadly, it truly was only 400 and it didn't reallly help when modding out the car. So they obviously were trying to show that "Even the auto was modifiable." In that sense. Beefing up the auto would benefit them based on there own advertising BS.
I could have sworn we have Hydraulic steering units with electronic assist which is different from Electronic steering. That's something else though. Unnecessary debate...
Lastly, our suspension, engine hood and crossbeams are aluminum right now. Our radiator housing and drive-shaft is carbon fiber. I'm sure it won't hurt to further increase this usage by another 15% while figuring out a way to use less steel on the chassis. Going all aluminum again is something else... and i agree it should go with the Nismo. Nismo is it's own racing division and it's about to expand greatly starting this year. Our cars aren't due for about 18 months. Funding can be pulled from the bread and butter vehicles Nissan currently runs and it's sharing of technology with mercedes. That merger isn't a one way street. Mercedes isn't giving us welfare. lol

all in all. Everything I said may not be able to happen first year. But nissan has an opportunity to create a world famous car. The Z name has held a lot of weight over the years, But was only able to be King for 6 of them (90-96) It's time to reclaim that.
A BRZ fighter won't do that. And if a BRZ fighter is what they build. The 370z will be my last Nissan for a while. It will be sad after having owned 6 Nissan and 2 infiniti vehicles. But my dollars will go somewhere else if they can't compete in a "REAL' sport arena and NOT some BRZ bullshyt.

Hey uknown your last paragraph is exactly how I feel, I don't want a freaking brz fighter, I want a proper entry level sports car. If they need to increase the price again at least improve instead of adding removing LEDs and fangs

if they increase the price much the car is going to die. Its selling 450 a month

I want the Z35 to be what the BRZ is and isnt at the same time. you give me that same weight and proportioned car with 300hp for not exceeding 5K more than the BRZ and its a hit

I think they already know that it's dying, the guy already confirmed to jay Leno they have to make it lighter and more gas efficient. So I guess ya I don't see them increasing the price but nismo is expensive as hell don't they know that. Seems like they're all over the place.

In the most basic of conceptions it needs to follow some BRZ attributes. The weight and length mainly. But the power and features have to be an advancement of this Z. A 300hp car would be fine but it better be FI... I'm really hoping for 350hp minimum on that size and weight chassis. But a HP and feature direct competitor to the BRZ would be a fvckin joke when the Z34 is this powerful.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Nissan wants to compete against the BRZ then bring back the f-ing silvia for that and leave the Z to compete against Mustangs, Camaro, etc.

new pics from the NISMO headquarters
http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/img/c...589/476/62.jpg
http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/img/c...589/476/61.jpg

http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/img/c...589/476/05.jpg


http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/img/c...589/476/06.jpg


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http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/img/c...589/476/25.jpg



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http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/img/c...589/476/09.jpg


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http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/img/c...589/476/22.jpg

Thats pretty f'n impressive. Drool-

Goddamn how i wish they'd produce the R390 for public sale.

My .02, FWIW.

Crazy how other cars in its price range sell like crazy, huh? I mean, mustang sales and all. The new 5.0 with Track Pack is all the rage. If Nissan makes a car that compete, maybe it will sell too. Of course the fat whore doesn't make as much money as the hot one. Nissan needs to get it in shape and maybe she can bring home some money.

:iagree: but those other cars are selling due to there name, a lot of people go :icon14: when you say you drive a nissan :ugh2: (american made domestic heads) but these can also be the same idiots who say the corolla is import and not made domestically mean while it's made in the town they live in :shakes head: dummies



The Nismo HQ looks sweet! Makes me want a GTR

I promise you, it's not the "Oh, it's a Nissan" that is keeping the 370Z from selling. Do you know where I live? I live in Shreveport, LA. Can you think of a more import hating place than next to one of the largest military installations in the US in a Southern town where the Daughters of the Confederacy and the NAACP went at it daily over a patch of ground flying a Confederate Flag down town in front of the court-house up until a year or so ago? I cannot. (PS. I hate this town).

Anyway, I get more compliments in my 370Z than I have gotten combined in my Mustang GT, Z06, or two Trans Ams before that. All prime redneck and 'Murican loved vehicles.

No, sir, it is NOT the "It's an import"...

that is keeping the 370Z from selling. It's not brand, it's not image. It's lack of substance in the numbers department. 'Murica buys a car because of how much she has under the hood. The 370Z doesn't have crap under the hood by 'Murica's standards, so the fact that it weighs less than the boat of a Challenger/Charger doesn't matter, really. The fact that there are no back-seats for the single baby-momma's in this town are a huge killer. Everyone here has some form of child or ten. They need a car with back seats. Please, Nissan, don't...

...but that's part of why it doesn't compete with the Camaro, Mustang, and Mopars twins.

'Murica wants to go fast in one direction toting it's EBT-enabling cargo squalling all the way. At least, the 'Murica I live in.

Then you take a single guy who hates kids and doesn't care who made it, as long as it's quality gear, and we try the 370Z out. We discover that the brakes don't work so great, the shifter is worse than the Tremec's in the American cars, the handling in the GT Track Pack is more neutral, and we say...damn. 'Murica! and we never look back. Nissan is a "one and done" for us, because we looked past the other things that weeded others out, but once we actually got the product, we found out it was all sexy curves, cute little catch phrases like "dynamic weight transfer", and no balls or brawn when it comes time to actually DRIVE the thing and we wind up with warped rotors and hating the front-heavy handling and all those little nitpicky things after a day of driving to and from work on a road with a few kinks in it.

That is why it doesn't sell.

Those who would buy it, can't fit their life into it, and those who do buy it, figure out that it's not half the car it seemed like in the product brochure.

the z wasn't meant to be sold in those numbers either. If we sold in the range of 20,000 to 30,000 units a year. the Z would be considered a HUGE success.

I think Fi benefits this car more because v6 NA tuning sucks and is expensive. NA v8 or FI 6 are superior to other types of inexpensive engines. Plus they are much more mod friendly as well as less expensive to mod.

Hmmmm what would Rick James say right Now?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JXoJ_CV3m0...rick_james.jpg
"Nice Car n****! Where's the F@%kn exhaust?????? Arrrrggggghhhh!!!"

http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/img/c...589/476/21.jpg

Then stomp his muddy boots in the interior

lol:roflpuke2:

FI is heavy, and the car is already a pig up front. They would need to figure out how to trim it down a lot not to un-balance it even more than it already is.

I agree with you somewhat, but the sales figures of the Mustang has been on the decline overall....even after the refresh. People just aren't buying as many sports cars/muscle cars as they use to in the early 2000's. Stangs are still outselling the Z by a huge margin, but overall, it's been on a decline. Ford knows this. It's why rumors of a the next Mustang becoming more of a sports car instead of muscle car are likely. I love muscle cars & anything fast, but let's face it, the majority of the planet are satisfied driving a Camry or Civic.

Heck, 'Murica's love for muscle cars isn't even a comparison to what they really love. The bread and butter for the big three and the very reason they are still around after making lackluster cars for so many years......Big *** Trucks! Ford sold 645,316 F-Series trucks last year vs 82,995 for the 'stang.

I guess my point is, it's a niche market begin with and you can find faults in every car if you look hard enough. You'd have to be a complete fool to believe every word in the brochure. If every word were true, there would be no aftermarket & we wouldn't need to modify anything. It's not an excuse or in defense of Nissan, Ford or any other company, just realities of producing a car that has to apeal to millions, each having very specific wants and needs. The next Z should be better and learn from current owners, but that doesn't mean Nissan is going to listen to a few enthusiast. Here's to hoping that they do.

Yeah but Camaro sales see increases... I think Fords overall styling works against them as well as having the Live axle. I think people are just demanding more for their money. Camaro offers more overall interior comfort. (Those seats are amazing) More confident steering and a sport like seat position with caddy like comfort. While mustang has a comfy seat option. comfort is standard on a camaro. Camaro also has a lot of standard creature comforts.
The mustang performance is more pure but the vast market is looking for a combo sport/ comfort car. The camaro fits that mold much better and just feels good when driving daily by comparison.
I think the next gen will be more z like in terms of a lot of power matched on amazing handling. That will help the stang, but with the ATS chassis being the main candidate for the next gen camaro. It will be a tight race. Either way. I think mustang sales will increase next gen. This gen body style is just worn to shyt.

The Camaro sales are beating the Mustang, but totals show an overall decrease from 2011 to 2013 for the Camaro also. It's some 3,800 units less. That's about a third of 370z sales in 2012. I actually like the Mustang's styling over the Camaro. Both cars need a huge re-design though. The Camaro's styling, although hadn't entered production until 2010, dates back to 2006 in a concept form. That's a lot of years of seeing the same design. I'm curious to see what Chevy has planned for the next gen Camaro after seeing the new Stingray.

The camaro was a tedious concept car. 2 years late and bloated. But i love that car. Especially in SS1LE form. People just don't know what's up with that one. Thats one incredible set-up

Like I said, Nissan could shut up and sit down at the alter of GM and learn a thing or two about suspension. Ferrari, BMW, and Audi have come to GM with hat in hand or used knock-off versions of their technology, already. Or maybe Nissan is in bed with Ford because they leased them the technology to make their GT-R engine?

I hope Nissan does, too, but they will have to re-do EVERYTHING. Paint. Glass. Everything. The whole car has been rather fragile. The rotors just really stand out and bug me. My G20 was the same way, build by the same kinds of minds. It's just how they do things over there in this company, and I've decided it's not to my advantage.

'Murican buyers want horsepower but what they actually buy are practical 4 cylinders. Aside form the top selling Trucks, the best selling cars have been Camry, Accord, Civic, Corolla, Altima...etc....etc...

Nissan builds cars like the Z and GT-R to satisfy an image of performance. Theoretically, someone gets enticed by the "pedegree" and leave the lot with something more suited in practicallity and price range. In reality, it's more like marketing....something designed to generate revenue for the rest of the line up. This is why Toyota has the GT-86....heck, they didn't even want to do it on their own.

The Z isn't that fragile. Your points are valid, but others probably think it's a bit OCD. I'm a bit OCD when it comes to keeping it clean. I for one hate the crappy paint and a few other minor nuisances, but it's been a pretty solid car IMO. I've even had "warped" rotors.....twice. Not that big of a deal to me, but I can see why it would bother you. What I like about the car still greatly outweighs what I hate about it. The only way you ever become satisfied with your car in every aspect is to design and build the car yourself from the ground up. I only wish I had the funds for such an endeavor.

So do I, but no, if the 370Z had actually had 53/47 and wasn't such a glass jaw in the quality/durability department, I would love it. In fact, I did, until I discovered these ugly things.