I haven't seen any fuel starvation discussion on the forums (then again I don't follow them that closely), but it seems like everyone is happily running stage 2 and 3 these days.

Sweet. I'd keep an eye on it in case.

The Ford Pushes 2200 lbs and hasn't come close to being at it's limits yet. A guy on the Mazdaspeed forum is modding his ST with a big turbo and has hit 330 hp w/o a special tune. He thinks he can hit 400 on the stock internal fuel system....time will tell.

I don't understand how you modify the actual turbo without tuning properly. Hope he doesn't blow it up. Changing turbos and upping boost will likely play hell with the fuel system to some point, so I guess he will find out exactly how far it can go. Hopefully it works out for the best, but my instincts say otherwise.

I think he used a standard ST COBB stg II solution. Basically hasn't push the hardware yet. He is working directly with COBB on the tune now, says it's quite different than the way the MS3 does things. He pushed his MS3 to 0ver 500 hp on a stock block so the guy's got a bit of street cred already. :D

Link to his thread and what he's found so far if you're interested....
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...rbo-st-135643/

Dont take my word just look at what other reviewers have said about this Ford crap box. If I was in market for 20 MPG torque steering 3200 lb pig of an econobox I'd be in line for ST for sure!

Quotes from leading car mags


The Ford struggles to get the power down in adverse conditions and tends to describe a ragged line when the visor drops, and its manual gearbox is not as efficient as VW's dual-clutch layout.


Despite these grand promises, the RS was notorious for excessive steering fight, so it does not come as a huge surprise that the ST displays similar tendencies.


The bad news is that the turning circle is more F-150 than Focus. At 39.4 feet, the ST, which is shod with eighteen-inch tires, needs three more feet to move between curbs than its lesser stablemates. The turning circle of the Volkswagen is a commendably tight 35.8 feet -- so much smaller than the Ford's that you'd even notice the difference making a U-turn in the middle of a wide-open red state.


On actual roads, you more often than not find yourself wrestling all 270 lb-ft of torque for steering superiority. In first and second gear, make sure you have some space when getting onto the gas with the wheel anything but straight. Even then, you'll want a full lane, stripe to stripe. I haven't felt torque steer like this in a very long time. In fact, I've driven GTIs with 400 hp at the wheel that were more docile than this Ford


When the car senses torque steer, it ups the steering assist in the opposite direction. It feels very unnatural and suddenly you're correcting your efforts to correct the steering to correct the direction of the car in an effort not to have to correct a curbed wheel.

You probably want to blame us, the Edmunds editors, for our long-term 2013 Ford Focus ST's less-than-stellar fuel economy. Or maybe you think fault lies with the EPA's testing procedure. We've been averaging around 22 miles per gallon, which is below the EPA 23 mpg city rating, not to mention the 26 mpg combined rating.

...we averaged just 20.4 mpg for the month on 91 octane premium.

The technology on our long-term 2013 Ford Focus ST has more than its fair share of issues. From the annoyances with MyFord Touch and pairing our phones, to the car thinking it should have a rear-view camera the audio and navigation controls and software seem to be the weak point on

Recently, I happened to notice the gap between the tweeter on the passenger side of our long-term 2013 Ford Focus ST and the door trim below it. Then, I glanced over at the driver-side tweeter. It fits tight to the door trim

Because of its swooping beltline and smallish rear window, the Focus hatchback does not provide the driver the greatest of rearward visibility. It's not terrible in the sense of a mid-80s Italian supercar, mind you, but it can make backing out of driveways or parking spots a bit trickier than I'd expect for a small hatchback

D-damn!!!

Are these from one reviewer or several? You didn't quite quote and bib these.
I never really looked at the post production reviews of this car but Torque steer sounds unrelenting... When i had my Altima 3.5se, i pushed those 270hp/258lbs tq to the limits and virtually no torque steer with vdc on, mild to slightly moderate with it off. There was side to side movement with vdc on, but more than tolerable resistance which made it extremely controllable even under hard driving.

Torque steer has been becoming a historical fact in FWD cars since 2007. The only car I can think of that has harsh torque steer is the Mazdaspeed 3. But those turbos are ramped up pretty high stock and mazdaspeed hasn't been truly updated in that area. (this last statement was true in 2011 at least?) I don't know if 2014's still have that level of torque steer?

All that being said... I'm shocked the Focus ST has horrible torque-steer in 2013.

Wow, that's got to be the most selective quoting in history. You know damm well I can show you almost every mag on the planet calling it the best FWD car out today. And all of them universally rating it over the VW and the MS3. geez.

Agreed. Selective quoting ftl. How many bad reviews are there on the 370z?

This

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Hundreds
Zero.

Won't find any quotes on torque steer for 370Z. :rofl2:

I will say that almost every review I have read on the Ford talks about torque steer issue and the crappy electric systems in place to try to counter issue. No selective editing on my part. Then all typical quality issues that go with this low quality but cheap American brand.

Don't worry I wouldn't expect someone who owns a Ford to understand. I'd create a fantasy world too if I owned a Ford to justify my purchase. Ah yes best handling fastest and high quality sedan ever! :bowrofl:

I guess I could wait a year or two and pick one up for $12k after this Focus Boi racers resale value collapses on itself.

Nah, but you'll hear some about how there might as well be a small bus on the front axle.

If you trust reviews to evaluate a car, you're doing things very wrong.

There's no love lost between me and the ST. I've no interest in a turbo FWD car, and in that price bracket I'd be in a WRX, but it's preposterous to pick out negative comments like that.

Nevermind the fact that the interior quality is miles ahead of most other vehicles in the price range, contrary to your claims.

:icon17:

You're a funny guy, Grant.

First of all, I don't think I said anything denying the torque steer. Is it there? Absolutely. You can feel the computer try to compensate, but it can only do so much. But, it's not my car, so I don't really care.

With any car you can find plenty of good and bad comments from reviewers... often in the same review. If I cared enough, I could search for plenty of praise of the ST.

Low quality? Everything inside the ST feels pretty nice to me. For cars in its price range it's got to be among the better quality cars around as far as interior materials are concerned. It's well done. Doesn't feel econobox at all.

Fantasy world? Hardly. I don't own a Ford. I drive one occasionally and happen to think it's a fun, well built car. Would I personally buy an ST? No. I'm not into FWD hatches, or sporty FWD cars in general. But I do understand the appeal of cars like the MS3, ST, GTI, etc. They are convenient, sporty, and fun all rolled into one and work just fine for many people.

Keep trollin', man. You do a good job.

My friend bought an ST few months ago and loves it! Traded in his 5.0 mustang get better mpg, more room....but get a fun car.....he's plenty happy!

I just had to......

The most significant take-away from this confrontation is the Fun to Drive line in our Final Results tabulation: Note how the ST topped the GTI by two points. Considering how long and how well VW has raced slot cars, that’s a colossal achievement. Something finally caught the GTI. Car And Driver

The numbers are impressive, without a doubt, but how the Focus gets around the figure-eight might be the most shocking. Apparently, nobody told Ford that high-performance, high-horsepower front-wheel-drive cars are supposed to suffer from terminal understeer. With any luck, no one will ever tell them, because the Focus ST is one of the best-handling front-wheel-drive cars ever built. Motor Trend

For now, the car to beat in the compact hot-hatch segment for all-around value and performance is the 2013 Ford Focus ST, hands down. Autoweek

Overall, though, we think the Ford Focus ST is one of the best options available in the hot-hatch market. Its drawbacks are quite minor compared to the amount of fun you'll have while driving, and with features typically unavailable from competitors, the Focus ST will feel as if it's worth much more than what you're actually paying. Edmunds

The Ford Focus ST is the first front-wheel drive car I would actually purchase with my own cash. Jalopnik

All have different strengths and weaknesses compared to their rivals and it seems Ford found the best blend. According to them, a study by Polk found the new Focus ST was the best sold hot hatch in Europe during the last three months of 2012. Considering awareness wasn't that high for this brand new car, the results are surprising. 44% of buyers chose it, compared to only 33% for the Golf GTI, a long time leader, and just 12% for the Megane RS. Autoevolution

But I wouldn't advise you to buy a Focus ST simply because it's better than the competition. I'd tell you to buy one because it is bound to be remembered as one of the decade's great cars, a thriller that deserves to be held in the same esteem as the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 and the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution. Think of buying a Focus ST as purchasing a bit of history -- except it's better, because history doesn't usually rotate when you lift off the accelerator. -- CarsAbout.com

The Vauxhall might be a couple of tenths quicker around the track, but for everyday, every-road driving, this must the best hot hatch on sale. In fact, it might be the best do-everything fast car in the world... Top Gear


Ford's new Focus ST is a starship amongst suborbital dinghies. It backs up its sci-fi looks with an EcoBoost engine that shreds time and space. It dominated every performance category in this test except observed fuel economy, and did so in a way that's both confident and entertaining. This is the new highperformance standard against which any other mass-produced car with a 4-cylinder engine will be judged.Road And Track

I could get serious and go find about 50 more if you really want!
:D

This is what i know based off the only 2 videos review i've seen. both were european vids and I was really searching the Megane.

1. On the track, Megane is 1st, Focus ST is 2nd.
2. On the street, Focus is first, Megane is second.
3. The focus has the sickest exhaust on a Front driver
4. Styling is nice but boy-racerish, but by no means bad.


This is what i learned inspecting one at the dallas auto show.
1. It's a high quality vehicle, overall.
2. the center stack kinda looks like a transformers toy and takes away from the overall appearance.
3. The RECARO's were built in HEAVEN,seating perfection and extremely high quality, only gotten by recaro.
4. Shifter placement is perfect and love the high quality look and feel of the shifter.
5. I would consider buying one as a DD for sure.

And it's not bias, because i kinda don't like Ford in general. If i went domestic, i'd look in GM companies. But it is, what it is. The focus is nice.

Torque steer to that level is not good considering most japanese and european brands have conquered it well, while GM and ford are still torque-steer junkies. But some good suspension tuning can reduce it too... :tup:

I would like to push one to the limit. I don't mind FWD sporty for DD/aggressive driving..

May i add. US and Europe used to have two different models. Ford gave the cheap one to home while blessing foreigners with the real deal. Ford finally came to their senses and gave us the european focus. All those years of us without the "real" focus, and the focus had over a decade of awards. now we finally have the car that's rightfully ours. I'm just glad to see a FUN front driver out there. there used so many and hardly any RWD, now we're missing good FWD's and have enough RWD. So lets balance it out and make both plentiful.:tiphat:

So I have sat in the car and I didn't see the "quality" you guys are raving about. Dash is a cluster. Car I sat in at show was showing wear just from people climbing in and out that better brands didn't show. It's a flicking focus. Lol!

And I love the "proof" this is a great car. It beat (well really didnt beat them)another crappy VW and a French companies econo boxes in a comparison on clearly biased car blog and magazine?

No one has sold me on this boosted fwd trash heap. Hey but it's your money guys! I'd jump in a better balanced and much lighter mini before I'd get in this 3200 lb pig. Or perhaps Fiesta ST if you want a pile of junk that is fun to drive.

I just feel sorry for people who are shelling out $24k for this car

Enjoy your Mini.

Loving the Mini S. Much lighter car not too powerful - nice balance and I consistently get 35 mpg! The Focus weighs about 500 lbs more than mini.

As long as you are happy with it that's cool. The Mini is a cute car.

It's also quite a bit lighter than a Fusion as well because...well... it's a different class of car. If one is interested in the ford somewhat equivalent in weight and power, that would be a Fiesta and Fiesta ST. I'm sure the Mini is quite a bit cuter, though.

:)

I think someone doesnt like ford is what the issue is....





DAN

The Megane is the French econobox you're talking about??? Really??? Lol. That car is going to have a strong influence in the next gen/future FWD sporty nissan's in america. France is half of nissan engineering... think about it.

And Mini cooper S models are known to be unreliable turbo cars. Case and point. My neighbors Mini which is only 4 years old, has died on him 3x in 6 months. Mini's do drive nice though, my cousin has one in PR and drives those mountains like a dream... But her's is always in the shop too...

You criticize negativity at your own convenience.

Dude i don't like Ford much either but damn. When you lose sight of calling a spade a spade due to predjudiced dislike? That's bias based on ego feeding insecurity.

I have driven plenty of fords and ford cousin Mazda variants. My experience is based on many miles on mountain roads. Ford makes decent motor and tranny typically. It's just chassis and bits they bolt on that leave me a little flat.

The generally physics of FWD cars really limit them to being lightweight and moderately powered. 3200 lbs and 250 plus boosted HP with all power going through front wheels won't cut it . Frankly 2700 lb mini is too heavy for my taste as well. I just can't imagine a 3000 plu lb fwd car.

I love Ford GT4O. About only ford I'd drive right now

the honda fit will suit your needs.

Mazdaspeed 3 2969lbs
VW GTi 3034lbs
Mini cooper S 2855lbs
Fod Focus ST 3240lbs
Honda Fit which is smaller... 2496 lbs.

And a miata which is a different type of car 2447lbs

I bet you would drive a 40 year old race car, we all would.

Correction

Mini Cooper S hatchback weighs 2668 lbs.
fiat 500 Abarth weighs 2512 lbs

Both are 500 lbs lighter and don't need to depend on nutty big power plants to drive front wheels. MazdaSpeed 3 is another ax ample of poorly executed fwd hatch. argh!

Sorry but Ford has lost their way with flabby Focus. Fiesta ST may redeem them. At least cost of Fiesta will be more in line with Ford Quality and weight won't be quite as much of an issue as it is with big fat Foci.

I'm looking Forward to drive a Fiesta St. Hopefully that car will average better than low 20 MPG !

Lost their way? I think you're trying to make the Focus fit a mold that it shouldn't be forced into. It's a compromise of power, handling, comfort, and capacity.

I'd rather drive an Abarth or Mini S around than the Focus ST from a driving fun perspective, but I also recognize that I have greater capability with the Focus in terms of people and stuff hauling. It's also got that power edge which is important to a lot of people. I know if I didn't have a power car I'd not want to be stuck with only a Abarth or Mini.

And the woman averages 26-27 mpg in her ST with a heavy right foot with a mostly city mix. That's not that bad. If you work hard you can get it to low 20s, but you've got to drive like a maniac to do that.

Yep. GT 40 Drive on Sunday - YouTube

Although my 1750 lb Porsche 914-6 GT race car handled better than big heavy Ford on the track but get that V8 some room and its all over.

This sort of reminds me of how the Z is treated on the S2000 forums. "It's too heavy." "It's too big." "It's not a real sports car."

Sure... but it's more powerful. It has more grip. It's more comfortable. It's more capable (performance, capacity, etc.)

Different strokes for different folks.

:rolleyes:

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The definition of "sports car" is quite contentious.

I can see that.

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Very valid points from S2000 crowd. The Z's significant heft and poor front weight distribution are real issues that make it poor handling car in comparison to S2000. I have spent tons of money trying to get the 370 Z to handle better and its still in misfit toy category in my book. I still love it though.

Now lets talk about 3200 lb FWD econo car hatch called Focus ST. Ford blew it by not making ST an AWD similar to EVO and STI. At least then while it was heavy it would have some redeeming traction capabilities. They could have put that car on diet and had a real performer.

Ford fans are so desperate for something that resembles performance that they are going bananas over this porky FWD tuner. I mean can you blame them? Up to now the only real performance car they have had is Fred Flintsone Mustang with solid axle.

So what they end up with is fat sporty spice hatchback. Its a compromise car for people who like sporty spice in their lives. Its perfect mommy mobile for somone who wants sporty feel in their econo car. By no means a real performance sedan.

What will be even more amusing are guys who boost performace on these cars. What a waste!

I dont think you Ford faithfuls are going to convert me anytime soon but it is cute watching defend this car as if its something special.

:rolleyes:

Classic Shamu.

So you added a dry carbon hatch and a titanium exhaust to help with the poor front weight distribution?

s2000 is a better handler because it's a smaller car, that weighs i think 600 lbs less than the Z and has lower center of gravity. Of course it will handle better, just like a Miata handles better as well...basic physics. If the s2000 had v-6 in it and as much interior room as the Z I don't think it would be anywhere near as a good of handler as it is now.

Which brings me to my next point. the s2000, 370z, and ford focus st are meant to be fun cars in different ways:
S2000- light, nimble, great handling go cart feel, rwd, top down fun
370Z - speed/acceleration, with good handling, interior comfort, well balanced fun car.
ford focus - straight line speed, torque, interior comfort>performance, everyday fun car

:iagree:And when people muddle different types of sports cars to make bias statements???? That equals...



FANBOY-TROLL:drama:

I would actually research Shamu's Z before making that comment. His car is well under 3000lbs.