Magnetic ride control improves ride quality but that jumps you $20k over the Z and you can buy @ focus turbos for that coin. The base 50k vette ride is crappy...

I just rented a new Focus yesterday, it only had 1800 on the ticker and when I drove off something was seriously wrong with the tranny. It wouldn't shift, it felt like a manual stuck in third. I kept looking down to make sure I wasn't in the wrong gear for an auto but I was in the right gear. I figured as a rental maybe someone threw it in reverse and drove a few miles backward (am I the only one who has dreampt of doing that lol?) Anyway, aside from that issues for the price I think Ford did ok with the styling and technology.

Downside to ford... Inconsistent transmission reliability throughout the model range except the fusion, I have no idea why the fusion fares better in reliability. The transmission issues seem to be lowering by the year. Give ford about 3 model years to clean up issues on new cars.

yeah, my 2010 expedition makes some wierd clunks and stuff sometimes

You are right ride is subjective. Let's not get into that as it will just be a pissing contest. Let's go back to what I said in the first post. I said the Focus rides almost as bad as the Z. We both know how both car handles. If a regular Focus rides only slightly better than the Z, what does that say about the Focus' ride? Do you honestly think the Z rides like a C class? Would you feel better if I say "Focus rides slightly better than the Z"? Does that help you and couple others beat off faster?

BRZ has 200HP. If you think it is enough, more power to you. Given the hype it's been getting, you would have thought they just dropped a 3.8L 911 motor in there. What difference does it make to wait three months or twelve months? Horsepower growing out of trees now?

My C6 Corvette had a $56K MSRP, I only got it for $45K. Yeah I didn't get much discount on it. If you want a good deal, look on the Corvette forum. Dealers are constantly offering them for 5-10K below sticker.

RX-8 has fuel starve? That is new as I am not sure how the car dominated CS for years with 1/8 to 1/4 of a tank. If you read the owner's manual of the RX-8, you will see Mazda tells you specifically that the rotary engine is DESIGNED to burn oil. That is just the way the motors are built. Is that truly a problem or just ignorant owners? Also my RX-8 had a sticker of about $26K, it came with 232HP in 2007. The BRZ has what, 200HP with a sticker around the same? Since it is down 32HP, how is it not overrated? Are you contradicting yourself now?

I am just letting you know that GT3 rides slightly better than the 370. There was no malice or anything behind it. I just know that from my time with it.

My RX-8 didn't have run flat new, Corvette did have the Goodyear Run Flat.

I definitely don't have good comebacks given I have had or driven the cars mentioned. Matter of fact, I autox and track all of them with some firm data on them. Would that help you better than magazine stats that you love?

Btw, nothing against the Z or ST Focus as I don't know how that car drives or what it has. I don't consider them the same as a $16-20K Focus, just like how EVO is different than the regular Lancer. My original dig was at the Focus and the reviewers who love them. I am not sure how it got from regular Focus to Focus ST?

I don't hate on the Z. Matter of fact, I love mine. I am just realistic enough to know the car is not perfect and there are shortcomings due to the price. Some of you guys seem not to think so.

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1.Why are you even comparing a C-class to a Z? You shouldn't even be expecting a ride comparison as they are two toally different driving concepts.

2. The BRZ is a good car but has already been outclassed by the older miata and loses around the track to the gencoupe. The new miata will most likely be coming next year and will be even lighter. Talks of FI are circulating too... Sot the only thing i see the brz having an advantage in is being a true coupe hardtop and 4 seats.
3. Rx8 costs as much as a brz and it gains it by 32hp. It's other comp, gencoupe 2.0 kills it by 74hp. Its other comp, the miata is underpowered by 42hp yet is a better handler. Want to talk about hype? I give you the toyobaru. The ricers dream. Now don't get me wrong. I would DD that car in a heartbeat. But corporate hype is giving it a name and it hasnt eclipsed any comp. At least in the first year, the Z was killing stangs and GTO's and the 2010 camaro SS tune was not as good so the Z was keeping up.
4. You drive 997's on trac ks all the time? Good for you. I can only afford to be on one maybe 3x a year if im fortunate enough to. But remember a bunch of modded cars on a track isn't the end all be all of opinions when comparing DD's.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion. But i don't know why you are so perplexed by opposing opinions. My experience with the focus was it gave just enough firmness to feel sporty. It's not a benchmark car but its good,
As far as why we are talking about the ST? It's the focus submodel of interest... Besides weren't you the one who whined about "Do you like it so much cuz it comes in turbo?" It's a thread, its how shyt is discussed. You don't like it? It's your thread... Close it. Anyway im outta here. I shoulda known better to come into one of your threads.

I simply used the Z as a reference in my first post! The Focus rides not much softer than the Z and it doesn't handle anywhere like a sports car. Is it a good thing to ride similar like the Z? Of course not, well unless you think the Z rides like a Mercedes. I am not sure why you take so much offense to it, I was knocking the Focus, not the Z.

Tell me once the turbo hits on the BRZ...

I did two sessions in a GT3. I got as much as I need out of it. It's too expensive for me to track like you said.

I am still kind of puzzled at how a Focus bashing turned into Z bashing? I just purely want to bring up the crappy Ford Focus I rented at work last week. I had high expectations for it given all the hypes that the magazine gave it, yet I had nothing but headache with that car. I moved onto a Subaru Legacy this week, it's better but still $hitty

This whole post just reinforces my feeling that once you have a sports car (no matter which one it is), you get spoiled mighty fast and after that, driving anything that is not a sports car pretty much feels like crap. It's mighty tough to downgrade.

:iagree:

Just like when I tested the BRZ...Its a nice flashy looking sports car good handling feels right for daily drive but it lacks the spank when you needed it. My Z is still my #1 BB-ITCH for now....till then

I don't know, I suppose folks can employ context, like you're doing in your post, and note that sports cars and passenger cars are apples/oranges, and not get stuck in all sorts of crazy logic like OP does.

I read through the thread, for entertainment purposes, cuz I've noticed lots of OPS turbulent reasoning is pretty hilarious, like he's taking shots of paint thinner before every post.

I still don't get how I am comparing apples and oranges when there was no comparison at all? I simply reference the Focus's ride to the Z's ride. Some people seem to take offense with the fact that I said the Z rides bad. Everyone knows the Z is a sports car, bad ride is part of the game. The regular Focus is not meant to be a sports car and it doesn't handle like one. If it rides like the Z, the problem is with Ford.

I don't think you understand how a simile works. A simile is a figure of speech that directly compares two different things, usually by employing the words "like" or "as". When you "reference" you're comparing. In any case, this has gone way off topic. I don't even get the point of this thread to be honest with you. You should probably just close it.

Don't take it the wrong way, but I think its because most of the threads you start complain about things, especially all the faults of the Z.

Simple, because its REALLY fun to drive and chuck around! I had one for a week, and yeah, its really underpowered, but what other car can you handbrake turn at every right turn? LOL

It could be, but that was not the intention in this case.

No offense taken as I know you are not some fanboy.

That's what my friends and I said when we took a Hyundai Accent, fit 4 people in it, and went AUTO-X on a 2 minute course ^_^;;;

Sat in an ST today. Wasnt impressed in the slightest for it being the "coveted" ST version. I actually had really high hopes for it since after seeing top gear beat the snot out of one.

1: I am a size 32 waist. Good luck getting anyone bigger in there. How the hell Jeremy Clarkson got his *** in there I dont know, but in all honesty I dont think they used the factory seat. But all in all really nice seat, hugs a little more then the Z's which I already like alot. Much Much better then the mustangs in reagrds to the leg boolsters and side bolster, felt like a true racing seat.

2: Was totally put off by how high the seat was in relation to the peddles. Felt like minivan height. The lower half of my bicep was at the window seal vs the middle of the ball of my shoulder in the Z. Didnt feel sporty at all. Leg angle was like at 50-60*. Legs not even in the slightest straight out in front of you. Very very down and slightly away

3. Didnt get to start it up, but wasnt a fan of how the manual gear box felt just sitting there. Reverse was up and to the left.

4. Dash didnt really flow with the center console, and also came across very perpendicular to the doors, no really wrap around feel. Very similar to the complaint I have about the mustangs. Neither feels like a cockpit.

5. What back seat it did have, need to be a double amputee missing both legs to sit in the back. Plus they were very very flat across. IMO each side needed to have more depth in the back so you sit more at an angle similar to how the 911's are. No definite seperation from each seat in the middle.

6. For a hot hatch, has to be hands down the smallest hatch area I have every seen.

7. Really like the exhaust design.

8. Nothing really special with the brakes, which caught me off guard. Was expecting something a little more than the same look of our base brakes.

9. Under the hood. Another disapointment. Why are manufactures hiding the motor under so much freakin plastic? Huge plastic cover with a stock crinkly black intake tube coming out form under it to a stock air box.

All in all I walked in practically giddy to see one and seriously walked away really disapointed. Plus the dealer marked it up an additional ~$1.5k for it being "rare". MSRP with all the extras was ~$28.5k, dealer wanted just over $30k. $5k more than the Z. So much wrong with that car, I dont know how ford dicked it up, but then again I dont know if it had the option for upgraded brakes, but that still wouldnt make up for the numerous other short falls. Felt like I was sitting in a ford minivan or ranger that was mildly lowered and had racing seats in it. Nothing like how a "sports car" sports car is suppose to feel.

I honestly dont even think driving one would make it feel any different either. Super weird upright minivan sitting feel, total opposite of confidence inspiring.

I test drove one Saturday. As a big guy, the optional recaros were way tight and uncomfortable. Car felt peppy, but felt a lot of turbo lag. Handles very well, though. Brakes were impressive too. But it's quite small and cheaply built for the money, given that most of them at dealers in my area are fully optioned at around 30k. No thx.

You can get the bottom of the line for under 24K. I ordered one with the middle of the line setup (Recaros, Sony sound, MFT, moonroof) for $26440. Anyone who pays $30,000 is simply an idiot. Remember, this isn't a sports car, it's a hot economy hatchback. I got it as a daily driver, not to replace my Z. It's rated at 32 MPG HWY and is dynoing out at about 230 whp and about 270 ft/lbs of tq, handles great, and can carrry 5. It's replacing a Ford Expedition that get 14 MPG on a good day! :D

If you can find it, and if you don't want to simply buy a Mazdaspeed3 for the same everything.

I was close to buying a MS3 when this came out. The ST will be a much nicer daily driver, newer car on newer frame (old focus and MS3 shared the C-1 frame, new Global C frame 30% stiffer) and much better mileage. If I wanted to Mod, I'd go with the MS3, but since it's a DD, I don't plan on modding for a few years at least. The ST is hitting dealerships all over the place now. The factory can roll out 30 per shift, 2 shifts a day, plus weekend stuff. There will be plenty and the price will be invoice in a couple of months, just like almost everything else Ford sells.

Honestly, the only difference I felt between the 29k ST and the 19k base Focus with a manual were the suspension setup and the brakes, which are both obviously superior in the ST. The ST is obviously faster in a straight line, but it didn't feel like it to me. The car lagged.

Could have just been the car I tested, but it didn't blow my mind with speed. MS3 is worse on gas, but it's also quite more engaging, in my opinion.

Might have been the car. Here's what COBB tuning found compared to the stock MS3.

https://www.box.com/shared/static/si...8uhqxbsyib.jpg

note the difference in bottom end torque. They weigh the same so I don't see how the MS3 could be more responsive. Now with a stiffer frame, Ford can soften up the suspension and get the same performance stats with a smoother ride. As a matter of fact, this is similar to the chassis differences between the 350Z and the 370Z. The 370Z feels less harsh but still outperforms the 350Z on the real numbers.

1.Sometimes your wording comes off as comparison vs showing similarities. I agree with CMike :iagree:
2.When the turbo BRZ comes out... I will be elated and wont have anything to say. Till then... It's still overrated as of now.
But you making that future BRZ reference is like me saying, Tell me once the Z35 is out. If it's not out? Why make that comment? Some would call that fanboyism.

3. I don't bash the Z or focus. There aren't many cars I don't like. There are "Type of People" that buy a certain "type of car" I don't like but not cars.


You seem to always to talk about fanboying when i post simply based on my satisfaction with the Z or any other type of post. You always seem to make the fanboy reference but yet you are the one aligning with BRZ turbos before they exist.
I personally would be willing to leave nissan for a better performing car in the price range. My issue is i dont normally pay over $50k for sports cars and rarely do i buy used. N when i do? They're newsed, with under 10k miles... Since my priority leans toward handling and i wont drive a sports car that takes more than 5.5 seconds to 60 and 13.5 the quarter. I am left with few choices. Show me a muscle car under 3400lbs and i will consider one... :tiphat: Muscle cars don't give me the connection to the road I need and lightweight 4 bangers don't give me enough power.
Addressing the Z's shortcomings through modification has left me extremely satisfied and I see no need to trade or buy anything else till a new generation-set of cars hit the dealers. You seem to think, if someone doesn't have little to no complaint about the Z. They are fanboys... That's stupid. Somehow the non-fanboy should own a Z and feel like it's barely acceptable for anything other than driving to work... That's bullshyt.:ugh2:

But guess what... There are other cars I/we admire too. We just don't have to self loathe what we own to praise the next newest thing.:confused:

I'm sure it is probably the way you drove the car. We usually don't get to rip into a car unless we get solo test drives. Thank god I get those @ my nissan dealer and @ the bmw dealership.
The flipside is... I would also guess the Mazdaspeed would feel more powerful overall. Since the mazda is sucking up more gas and is probably not using as much high tech to keep fuel numbers up. It may have a more direct feel.

I'm pretty sure, due to Ford and mazda's relationship. The next gen mazdaspeed will be a beefed up ST mechanically. I would probably wait and see what the next gen 3 looks like and does before diving into the ST. But i love the ST in terms of looks. The next gen MS3(which should be coming out soon?) may be a better bang for buck though???

I doubt they'll drop the price, it'll probably be same bang for buck.

I might test the ST this weekend.

I might be driving my new St by this weekend. :D

:pics:

As soon as I get it. It currently resides in a train car somewhere between here and Arkansas. :D

:tup:

I already said the BRZ is overrated (post #29), way before your post about turbo BRZ (#34). Matter of fact, this is what I said about the Focus and the BRZ.

This is what you came back with in #34.

I replied with tell me when the BRZ turbo hits the market in post #47. Correct me if I am wrong, but I can't seem to find anything about me saying anything about BRZ turbo except the one reply. So is that referencing the future?

When?!?

Chevy Corvette. 420HP, about 3300lbs.
Audi TTS
BMW 335

Ford lost controlling interest in Mazda in 2008, the new Focus is on a different platform as the current Mazda 3 (which is based on the 2nd gen Focus).

Do some research if you are going to throw random stuff out.

.

TROLL I know they are on seperate platforms, i'm talking engine & possibly transmission SHARED TECHNOLOGY not using each other chassis'.

Your post clearly states in bold. "Tell me once the turbo BRZ comes out". Genius. It's bolded and highlit for your trolling self. I don't have to tell you shyt about the future till its in the present. THHAAAT was my point. your opinons are moot. You're just a Z FORUM troll. Thats all.

Always good to fallback on name calling.

Name calling is insulting people. I'm just saying every response he has is trolled out. Period. You know very well my post said nothing of shared platforms. Yet he's bringing this whole do your research shyt. I dont remember ANYONE including myself bring up shared platforms. Troll Shyt.
But i will remove the anger part of my post.

Do I really have to reference your posts again?

To paraphrase

#29 I said Focus is overrated, almost like the BRZ in terms of hype.
#34 You said I can't benchmark it when all I said it was overrated. You mentioned something about give it 12 months of long term testing.
#45 I basically said what difference does it make if you compare the car now vs. 12 months from now. The car has 200HP as far as I know and HP don't grow out of trees.
#46 You replied with something along the lines of BRZ turbo is coming and went on about how it compares to Miata.
#47 I basically said tell me when the BRZ hits and skip over the topic as the post was never about the BRZ.
#64 You basically said the BRZ is overrated and you are reserving your judgment until the turbo comes out (which essentially is what I said all along). Somehow it ended up making me a fanboy?

Do you just make up things as you go? Didn't you say they don't discount Corvettes when I showed you you can get them for thousands below sticker? Mazda's developing their own SkyActive engines and Ford is doing their EcoBoost engines. How are they sharing engines? You seem to love benchracing a lot, please do your research before you start typing crap that people can challenge you on.

You're applying posts about upcoming cars and mixing them up with other convo's in other parts of the conversation. Most of these dont go hand in hand. You are using exerts to manipulate my words. Troll

That's exactly why you're a troll. Piece-fitting to make contradictory statements on shyt to make you look good. I cant believe you're spending that much time on that. Job? Woman? Nothing on Tv? Guess not?
Stating the future in competition and KNOWING the next miata will pose a higher power to weight ratio are two different things. I'm just saying the future holds serious comp for the BRZ. I'm saying mazda is not going to lose there position. Miata is still considered the better, more neutral sports car by reviewers standards. What the BRZ has over it is being a 2+2 coupe vs a 2 seater roadster... Your whole post is manipulative and garbage.
I didnt say they DONT DISCOUNT VETTES. I said as the model line-up gets higher, The discounts are harder to get. Here where i live now. Corvettes are a hot commodity in dealerships, while you can get a base cheap. The GS and Z06 are not as discounted well. i didnt NO discount. Just not as well as base models.
You in turn showed me a link from a forum of dealerships in the75% of which northern regions, pretty far from tx deep discounting vettes. But thats what trolls do, right...

So bitter and trollfull:ughdance::icon18:

:icon18::bowrofl::bowrofl:

More importantly, if you think a member is trolling, report their posts. The moderators will warn or ban the user if they agree with you.

Name-calling attack posts are certainly against the forum rules.

Shall we go back to discussing the Focus now?

Sorry guys!!! I'm letting shyt get to me that i shouldn't. You guys are right. Consider me checked. I feel it is trolling, but subtle trolling thats just enough to pass in a forum. but i guess calling him out as a troll while he can still pass off as not trolling, is name calling... to a degree.

Shado's test drive is way more interesting than my BS with Cossie.

:shakes head: I apologize.
Will NOT reply on that subject with him again. It makes me a troll inthe longrun.