Because it could be a competitor if being cross-shopped

Obviously it grabbed your attention if you clicked into the thread, thus you must have cared enough to take a look - Just saying

yep, plus, most of us dont drive our Z's as dd's and looking for dd#2. lol

but yah, i suppose it could be in the 'other cars' forum...

Perhaps we are setting the bar too low for a proper comparison. Thus far every car I've been in meets this survival standard. :icon17:

You don't understand the dragon at night.


There's deer, and there's turns, and there are 240sx's with drift ornaments and stickers that say fwd sucks.

And then there are people in very heavy Maximas with something to prove.

:iagree:

I'd like to point out that it was the four of us plus the car that weighed that much, not just me... :icon17:

:icon17:

It's down 11 hp and 10 tq to the mazdaspeed3 but weighs in about 100 lbs less...sounds like a dead heat!

Simple I wouldn't buy a Ford Fucus unless it was the only car you could buy left on the planet , There is a good reason Ford stands for " Found On Road Dead " or Fixed Or Repaired Daily" .

Wow...never heard those before.

You do realize the year is 2012, right? This isn't mid 80's tempo or a 70's pinto.

Ford has produced a good product for quite some time, arguably the best US company. For years the Euro focus has not been available (WRC fans know what I am talking about).

Do you think Nissan is a quality king? <cough steering lock> :driving:

- b

sorry dude, but i have to disagree 100%.
im on my third, and i beat the piss out of the first two without a single issue. reliability cant be touched, from my own experience. the altima, on the other hand, has issues in several departments. my cousin has a brand new one with a failing transmission, broken sunroof, etc. my wifes friend also had one with transmission problem and other issues. i like the altima, but there is a reason it cost more to get in a max. its a better car.

as far as the torque steer thing, the max has plenty of it, sure. its got a ton of power. but it didnt happen on launch. straight line i have minimal left / right sway. however, step on it to pass while turning the wheel to switch lanes? better hold on with both hands! this is when torque steer is bad.

sorry ford guys, but i have avoided ford products for a lifetime, due to the countless reliability issues and repair bills i have witnessed. only one guy i have ever known has had good luck. its a 97 ford f150, and has about 125,000 miles. other than that? i could go on about friends, neighbors, etc. that have bought new fords that completely died before 60,000 miles. an the ones that didnt? spend half the time in the shop. yes, all car makers have lemons, defects, and what not. but ford and dodge are notorious for reliability failure. sorry steve lol. i see another quote coming...

Meh, that's fine. I'm on the other side where I haven't experienced or witnessed any abnormal reliability issues assuming proper maintenance. Certainly there is a stigma for poor reliability that dates back to the 80s-90s when the US automakers were slacking off, but that's been over for a long time now. Just about every major manufacturer is on an even playing field when it comes to reliability.

Heck, between my Fjord and my Honduh, the Honduh has to go in for warranty mechanical repairs. :icon17:

3 altimas and going strong on my side. My cousin,, sister-in law and 2 good friends with maximas, have had transmission issues on the altima. A neighbor of mine drove his max aggressive one day and had transmission fluid all over the ground the next morning. I guess its going to be a who you ask.
As far as performance. The altimas don't have a whole lot of torque steer unless you go seriously hard into a turn. Straight lines torqque steer is controllable, turns, as long as they are not made over 40mph are pretty controllable. (This part may partly depend on driver ability) sudden turns in FWD will bring about vicious torque steer in any FWD, no matter what the ecu does to control it. Once aggressive you will feel that front weight on the axle. Even with nissan making it a mi engine mount it is harsh once you hit high level aggressive. But normal street aggressive, it should be subtle as long as you know the limits.

As far as maximas. I haven't driven one too aggressive but a 3.5 altima is 3200lbs. A maxima is 3600lbs, with that 400lbs of extra weight mainly to the front. So going back to what I said. The altima is a better handler most likely do to lighter weight. Maximas have the same suspension. And even thoughthey have the same transmission, true delta statistiics show the maxima having more issues on the cvt more than altimas. Not sure on manuals but either way. Both got the 120k mile extended transmission warranty, so we'll just say they both have issues though maximas statisticly have had more transmission problems.

Between your ford and your Honda? What about the statistics between my ford and my NISSAN?


On a serious note....ford has definitely stepped their game up in the last couple years. My mom just got a new explorer (coming from years of driving Hondas) and the car is very impressive. Most of this stuff is cyclical....years of good, years of bad. Honda was on an upswing for quite a while...and has been putting out crap for the last couple years....it will take people a while to catch on.

Ford put out crap for a long time, and as People finally started to catch on, they gradually brought their game back up. I'm no ford fanboy...I buy based on the best value to me. I've owned quite a makes of cars, and have no problems calling it like I see it. I think this particular focus is an overpriced, fwd wrx that is trying to get in with the ms3 in a shrinking segment....but on the whole....ford is very much on top of their game right now.

I will agree that sport oriented FWD, is a shrinking market on an enthusiast level. Enthusiasts have become tired of substituting for new fwd sport vehicles and rather just find an affordable used RWD vehicle. This is why companies like Scion, subaru and hyundai are filling the gap with mid 20k RWD sports cars. Its almost over for FWD in this segment. There will just have to be cheaper RWD and AWD vehicles now if the corporations want to make money on new car sales.
I still think the ST is nice for what it is though. Though FWD has much less fans now in the enthusiast market... I see it appealing to family men that need practical but sporty. I don't think it will hit the enthusiast market too hard. A great DD for guys like us it will make as well. This car is rumored to be able to get in the 36mpg range highway.

I wouldn't say its over for FWD at all. While I prefer RWD, GTIs have been selling out the ying yang for the past decade. Everywhere I look I see one. While the Mazadaspeed 3 is a rare bird, the VW counterpart is not. VW got it right in this segment and has been enjoying its success.

$25k for this car is by no means overpriced.

Ignorance makes me giggle.

In general, Most enthusiasts don't want FWD. Even the most sought after VW by enthusiasts is the R32 which is AWD.

The GTI doesn't really sell to enthusiasts though. It sells to people that want a sport entry to german makes, and people that cross shop the civic si.

There's all different levels of enthusiasm :)

I don't consider AWD the choice of a true enthusiast either.

No thanks. I will keep my 12-GTI. Looks like a large mouth bass. Not good.

thats what my Z is, truck for hauling/weather:)

Do you realize that AWD has the Rallye segment. RWD has the drift autocross and formula segement... what segment does FWD have? The I need a new drivetrain to put my car in a competition segment??? Lol. There is NO enthusiasm for FWD.

To each their own, I guess.

I like all drive types to be honest. Fighting with a FWD car can be really fun. :icon17:

Bottom line is I'm a car guy, so it's always good to see more sport-oriented cars entering the market. I even get excited over the Abarth.

This is a good read on the dynamics of the Focus ST. 2013 Ford Focus ST First Ride - Feature - Car and Driver

Looks like it will be a lot of fun.

good article :tup:

its a focus guys...a focus...great for the price, but I would never buy one.

I'll take the GTI every time over a focus, for the same reasons I took the 370z over a 5.0 Mustang. Its not all about sheer speed.

:icon14:

Same here. I welcome all sport-oriented cars that are quality.

The Abarth looks awesome! I'd love one of those as a tiny city car. The Scion iQ looks like it could be fun to toss around as well.

The wife of one of our club members just picked up an Abarth recently. Seems very well built. Super nice inside and out. The kicker is the sound... amazing!

:iagree: on the Abarth. That car just looks fun. Similar to mini S.

the iQ I think is too underpowered to have any "fun".

With the iQ I envision a spec race with a bunch of other iQs... inside of a shopping mall. :icon17:

:bowrofl:

Hahaha! It's so dinky. But it's got wider tracks than the smart car and thus would be fun to throw around some turns, or Kiosks...

Agreed. It makes about 100 hp and weighs only 2100 lbs, so it probably feels quick under 25 mph. :icon17:

I tested a GTI against an MS3 and liked the GTI better. I want to test the new Focus to get an idea where it compares. Largely, though, I agree that the GTI is incredible fit and finish for the segment, and it is very fun, even if it is slower than the others.

The GTI is a nice car, but it's got such a bad stigma (at least around here) that I wouldn't own one.