You're not following what I'm saying at all frost.

And it will still be a Government Motors car...

I was waffling between an 08 Vett Z06, 09 BMW Z4 3.5i, and the 370Z coupe before I got my 370Z roadster.

I could not get over the cheesy GM interior on the Vett. I mean come on, it is a 70K car and they put a window switch in for the Ignition button :shakes head:

I just could not get past the price on the Z4 3.5i especially since it barely out performed the Z Roadster in a strait line(stock, and I hear the easy mods on the Z4 get an easy 80HP without trying hard), and does not outperform it in the twisties.

Unfortunately for me my wife made me go test drive the 370 with her along. The Roadster seats were the deal sealer, she loved them from the first minute. The Touring coupe seats made her completely uncomfortable, and I was not a fan of them either. The bonus of having a convertible again was the final deal sealer.

As I sit here in Jordan she is out driving my car...:owned:

Lets look at some numbers.. Mustang/Camaro sales in the 4th gen timeframe:

94:123,198/ 119,934
95: 185,986/ 122,844
96: 126,483/ 66,827
97: 100,254/ 95,812
98: 170,642/ 77,198
99: 126,067/ 42,098
00: 218,525/ 45,417
01: 155,162/ 29,009

Mustang never had a power advantage, so why did it outsell the Camaro so badly? Why did GM use the "excuse" of everyone moving to 4 and 6 cyl cars as a reason they cut off production in 2002 yet the Mustang continue to sell well?

My opinion is styling and the lack of a meaningful refresh in almost 10 years was the #1 reason followed by strategic shifts in the next gen chassis to build a new Camaro from.

Yes! Yes it is Frost. And the G coupe is a Z

Can I follow but just not agree?

Are you actually saying the f-bod twins didn't have a refresh and the mustang did?

In fact, now that I think about it, the mustang actually went LONGER than the f-bod twins without a refresh. They used the same car from 1994 - 2004.

Anyway, have to get some school work done. I personally believe the f-bods were refreshed in the 4th gen model, as opposed to "redesigned." BUT you can't say that's the reason it suffered in comparison to the mustang when the f-bods looked like completely redesigned cars with their (1998) refresh as opposed to the mustang that looked the same it's entire 4th gen run with the exception of what? A longer fake scoop on the side?

I'm sticking to my original story, which at least I'm basing off of something, which is that GM pushed the f-bod twins SO close to the vette, that they basically had three of the same car, jut a seat #difference. This is opposed to fords more simplistic approach of making all their performance cars a single car (mustang) and just having many variations of it. That simplistic approach means less variation and more revenue.

Refresh = 2003-2005 350Z to 2006-2008 350Z. Same chassis; different engines and slightly different interior/exterior updates.

Re-design = 2003-2008 350Z to 2009 370Z. Completely different chassis, interior, exterior, as well as motor.

My .02

A redesign is when the engineers start from scratch ( doesn't mean that they don't use platforms that are already availible) a facelift is when the engineers "touch up" a current modle.

Camaros were heavier, less powerful, and didn't keep up with a C5 in any category. So I'm not sure what you are basing your assumptions from, but it doesn't appear to be facts.

It wasn't a performance thing at all. The Camaro/Firebird just didn't have the appeal of the Mustang. They were also a bit more expensive.

But I can tell you this: EVERYONE knows what a Mustang is and there are plenty of people out there that don't know the whole "Camaro/Firebird" thing.

The Mustang is an American icon. Why do you think so many people buy the V6 models? They just want a MUSTANG!

One of the most successful brands ever.

Because Nissan wants to offer a cost effective "bang for the buck" sport car to their customers.

You can get the Stillen SC for around $8K installed from some of the Nissan dealers.

Same ls1 engine detuned to 25 less hp, slightly heavier, but with 4 seats. Yeah, people wouldn't cross shop those cars at all. :rolleyes: Just like people don't cross shop the Z and the G, right?


And by the way, I told you what I was basing my assumptions off of, what the magazines were saying at the time, which I bothered to read since I actually had an f-bod.

Edited by ak

are you jordanian?

he's Canadian.