Roof hitting the tonneau when opening
 

This is just to give you guys some information in case any of you encounter this issue.

After replacing my top, I noticed that whenever I attempt to open the top, the edges of the tonneau cover will hit the metal support arm (where the adjustment nut is) of the soft top. It was really bad and the paint started to chip off.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...psqeviuisr.jpg
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After countless attempts with the workshop to resolve this, we finally figured out this was due to the bungee cords. Specifically the 5th bow bungee cords.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...psocxegbvk.jpg

In my case, the workshop adjusted the cord and managed to get enough tension for the roof to be pulled more upright with more clearance for the tonneau cover.
If the tension is not sufficient, your bungee cords have been stretched out and will need to be replaced.
The part numbers are:-
971F8-1ET0A
971F9-1ET0A

Replacing of the bungee cord can be found in the service manual RF, under the section "5TH BOW BUNGEE CORD"

Another thing I noticed after this was done was previously, when the roof was closing (when the 5th bow opens up to latch with the tonneau cover lock) there will be a loud sound (something like when you attempt to open a huge umbrella with force) when the cloth top stretches open. After the tension of bungee cord was done, I don't get that loud sound anymore.
All these while when I got the car, I thought that sound was normal but right now the top closes more gracefully too.

Hope this information will help out fellow roadsters owners!

Great info. Thanks!
Did you have the complete top replaced or just the canvas?

I'm going to check on the load sound you are referring to.

I got the canvas top replaced as it got torn in the accident.
Was quite an experience understanding how the top works.

Here is a video of the top closing while sitting inside.
Before this, the "pop" sound was really loud.

I think that is about how mine sounds, all of them are pretty loud.
Thanks for the video.

This is after the bungee was done... Before it was really loud... I'd say like 3 times louder compared to this now.

Thanks for the info.

Good post. I think mine (2011) is doing the same thing. I also posted a thread a couple of months ago about the loud umbrella sound (good description). I was concerned that may not be normal. Did you have a mechanic change the bungees? I was wondering if I should attempt or leave to a professional. I'm not very experienced.

BTW thanks for the video. It seems to close more smoothly than mine does.

I believe what you have now was what I experience since I got my car, prior to this fix.
It was a really loud pop sound. I guess with not enough tension from the bungee to resist, the hydraulic will open at full force, thus that loud pop sound.

After the bungee was "fixed", upon my first closing of the roof, I was really puzzled by the much quieter operation.

My bungee was "fixed" by the mechanic, but it seems fairly simple once you know where the bungee is.
You can refer to the Service Manual here:-
370Z 2012 Service Manual - RF

Look for the section, 5th bow bungee cord.

Thanks again. Did you see a labor hour estimate? The dealership says 4 hours, which seems high to me.

Gentlemen,

Looking at the exploded diagram of the top frame showing the bungee cords, its easy to assume that changing them is straight forward. However, if you peruse the FSM RF section for replacing the top material, and YouTube the video showing how the top material is removed and replaced on a 350z, you'll appreciate the 4 hours needed.

The bungee cords are sandwiched between the top material and the interior lining of the top, and there are screws and rivets to remove and replace, ensuring a tight fit and clean look.

I'm certain its not for the beginner, but after some study, I believe its something that I would tackle on my own car. Anyone used to wrenching on cars and has worked on several convertibles should have what's needed to do the job. The only special tools needed may be just a rivet tool for the large rivet install, if needed.

Gene

Dealership wants $575 to do this job. Looking for alternatives in the NW Houston area.

Fixed with the same repair
 

Now the back part of the roof is not hitting the tonneau. Also when closing the back portion closes more smoothly. Hoping I won't have to mess with the top for a while.

What did they do to actually fix the problem?

Oh sorry...they replaced the 5th bough bungee chords.

Bungee's replaced, tonneau began hitting again
 

Hello Everyone,
The tonneau cover began hitting the bow within two years of purchasing the Z brand new. Because of that, I had the bungee's replaced back in October of 2013, then the Z was stored for the winter.

Because of one reason or another, the top was only operated once during 2014, once in 2015, and once in 2016. Last month I took her in for an Ester Oil change and asked the Tech to try the top, and the tonneau hit very lightly against the driver' side bow. Now we're wondering where to go from here.

The odd thing is that when he tried it a second time, the tonneau did not hit. It was as if the system had to be primed up or something. However, the tonneau should not be hitting regardless of whether it was the first opening or not.

Doesn't seem like we have to open the top multiple times throughout the year to prevent the tonneau from hitting, and if the car is stored for six months over the winter, you're automatically back to square one again.

I do remember the Tech telling me that he had to stretch the bungee's in order to be able to install them. He said Nissan instructed him to do so.

In my way of thinking, stretching them could cause the bungee to be weakened before it's even put to use.

I wanted to run this by the Forum to get some feed-back as the Dealer and I both want to fix the issue to last longer than three operations.

The bungee's were supposedly an upgraded bungee which Nissan made the change in 2012.

Could the Tech have made a mistake by stretching them in order to be able to install them? I'm wondering if he should have adjusted the bow to allow the install, then re-tighten it to proper clearances.

The Dealership and the Tech are great to work with, and are seriously interested in finding out why the new bungee fix didn't last very long. They want me to leave the Z with them and open a repair order on the issue so the Tech can be in direct contact with Nissan and compare notes with them as he makes any tests or measurements to allow Nissan to help guide him in finding the problem and making the proper fix.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Hi-Step'n370z,

I have the same thing happening when opening the top, but only one side of the tonneau cover lightly clips the 5th bow frame. And mine is a 2016 with 9000 miles since new. What I've done is to open the top from the driver's door lock switch, and when the 5th bow folds up, I hold the 5th bow with my hand and pull it lightly towards the front of the car, just before the tonneau cover starts its upward movement. That way it doesn't clip.

Yeah, I know it shouldn't do that, and I really only have to move that bow about a quarter inch to get it to clear, but I'm not going to tackle the bungee repair until near the end of the factory warranty of year three. Its not a big deal, I can do the repair myself but would rather Nissan pay for it, and I don't want to lose the car for the time the service department will want to keep it for the repair, at least not during top down season. So we'll keep an eye on it as that time nears.

As far as the tech's stretching the bungee cords too much, ... I would doubt it, particularly when Subaru of American specifically told them to do it. As with any elastic product, over time they are going to stretch and not be as good as when new.

You have to keep in mind as well that when the top is up that bungee cord is fully stretched. Leave the top up for a long time, and the entire top will get used to staying in that position. So the first few times you open and close it, things will begin to free up, just like my old knees first thing in the morning.

Its a catch 22 ... leave the top open and the bungee cords don't get stretched, but the top wrinkles, and during long storage mice like to make homes in the folded sections (over winter storage), ...... or leave the top up, stretch the bungee cords, lose elasticity of them, so the tonneau cover may clip on opening, but the mice won't do $2000 damage to the cloth top during storage periods. (I found this out on my 1954 MG TF during a two week late fall storage. The devils chewed four folded sections in one spot, leaving 4 finger sized holes spaced 8 inches apart when the top was up. Repair was an entire new cloth top.)

The bungee cord design was doomed to failure from the first, in my opinion. They should have come up with another solution. But it is what it is. You may well find that with more use, your issue may well correct itself.

In your case, you seem to have the right people doing what they can to fix your issue. PLEASE, PLEASE, keep us in the loop and let us know how it works out. Being there myself, I most curious to see the end result. One thing for sure ... the just over $100 a piece Nissan charges for each bungee cord is way out of line.

Gene

similar issue
 

My 2010 has been doing this past few months at least as well, where 5th bow isn't retracted up far enough & tonneau lid clips it opening. Sometimes the 5th bow cracks & creaks as it folds into the tub & occasionally it will catch the rear of the tub peeling down on the vinyl lining. A convertible/upholstery shop in town checked my bungees & said they looked good, but they "tightened" them up just to be sure. Klaus at tophydraulics suggested might be the hydraulics pump internal valves causing issues, since it's quite sporadic---happens sometimes, other times seems to open without issues.

Just wondering if anyone else had similar repair, & if anyone replaced pump with one from Klaus--how it functioned, fix issues, etc?

Me too
 

I have a 2017 touring roadster, which I bought in May. Have had the roof-hitting-tonneau issue since day 1. Took it back to Nissan, and they claim to have replaced the bungees (as called for in service bulletin). But the problem persists (albeit intermittent). Seems like this has been a known issue for years, and yet Nissan continues to crank out new vehicles with the same problem. I've adjusted the adjustment nuts on the metal arms multiple times, but can't ameliorate the hitting problem. Any suggestions are welcome.

Boilardz,

As I stated in my posts, ..... open the top from the driver's door lock switch, which allows you to reach across the roof as it folds straight up, and pull that 5th bow towards the front of the car, before the tonneau cover opens and clips it.

Yes, you shouldn't have to do this, but it is what it is. If you're not willing to do this ... then either live with the issue, or replace the bungee cords for the 5th bow.

I've wondered if its possible for those of us with stretched 5th bow bungee cords, .... if its possible to fold parts of those bungee cords back onto themselves and zip tie them shorter, ... thereby shortening them, making them do their job as intended when new, and preventing the tonneau cover strikes that are so common, and also preventing the need to buy new bungee cords?

Is there someone willing to give it a try??? Keep us posted!

Gene

Tonneau hitting issue
 

I too had the bungee's replaced and the problem appeared to be fixed, but as time went on, it was and it wasn't.

After seven months in storage, I opened the top and the tonneau lid hit the bow. I was surprised as the bungee's were recently replaced, and as I was told, were of an improved design.

To make a long story short, after I took the Z out of storage, at the first opening it hit. I closed the top and immediately opened it again and it did not hit.

I do not open the top very often and I got to wondering if there was some "hydraulic pressure" type of hiccup going on, as it would hit during the initial opening, then I could open and close the top again and again and it didn't hit. It seemed like something internally needed to "be primed" and brought "up to even pressure", or the internals needed to be "balanced out", and as long as that hydraulic pressure or balance was maintained, there would be no hitting.

As an experiment, I decided to purposely open the top once every month, and each time I did it, it did not hit. I'd like to extend that to once every six weeks, then once every two months, and so on until I found the maximum time the top could stay closed before it would hit upon opening. Maybe I'll try that experiment nest season.

The Z will go into storage again soon, then after six to seven months, I will open the top again, and I honestly do expect it to hit on the first opening, but if I make sure I open it at least once a month, I then expect it to not hit until after the next storage period.

The manual says not to operate the top in cold weather, so that tells us that something is either weak or sensitive or both about the functioning. What exactly I don't know, but it does suggest that the operating system is a sensitive one compared to the old style, more mechanical, convertible tops of yesteryear.

The manual also says not to open and close the top over and over again as it would cause an over heating problem somewhere in the internals. That also suggests that the system is a sensitive one, which makes me think that it may be under-built for the job. Not that someone should go through a series of open and close, but the system should be able to handle it regardless. Just a thought.

Another idea I had, but am not going to do, was to store the Z with the top open. That would relax the bungee's and help to identify if it's more a bungee problem than some other internal issue. When the top was first operated after storage, they would be at full, un-stretched, strength. I'd try it but it may set in some ugly creases and may not iron themselves out. I don't think the bungee's are the problem though, I still believe that the problem lies within the balance of the systems internal mechanism.

Well, that's all I got. Not of any actual repair value, but maybe worth mentioning.

My real curiosity is why only some hit and others do not. It appears that most do not hit, and that only a few do.

With the many Roadsters out there, if most did hit, the forum would be flooded with comments, and the Dealership wouldn't be so surprised to hear of the problem, and then have to contact Nissan for repair instructions.

At least my Dealership had no knowledge of the problem, and they're a large Dealership. My Tech is their GTI guy, so he knows his stuff, and he had to contact Nissan for instructions. Just wanted to throw that thought into the mix.

I have a 2016 with the issue and I have been considering the bungee "tie back" option myself, but worry it would show a bulge when the top is up. No evidence for this, just a concern. I might just give it a go this weekend. If so I'll post back.

Ladies & Gentlemen,

Past experience has taught me to not store the car with the top down. The material fold creases may be extremely if not impossible to remove after an extended period of time.

As well, should the storage area where the car is kept be subjected to water spray (ceiling leak, burst water pipe, etc.), the interior of the car could be ruined if it were months later that you discovered the issue.

And then there are the little critters like mice and squirrels that like to make nests in all of that folded up top material when the top is open. One of my last antiques cars had just such an issue. An expensive fix for 4 small holes chewed to nickle size and all in a row. At least the little devil was neat.

The manual says to not open the top when the temperature is under 40 degrees F. That is simply in response to the viscosity of the hydraulic fluid (gets thicker when colder, and thins out when warm), and has nothing to do with the build quality of the top mechanism. As well, all of those plastic hoses that feed the 8 hydraulic cylinders may well crack and spit, and certainly not fold as well, when below 40 degrees.

As for the storage cover striking the top on first opening, but not successive openings, ... its like my knees not working first time I climb out of bed in the morning. But shortly thereafter, they work like a charm, only to do the same routine the next day after 12 hours rest. If at rest for a period of time, all things will take a "set".

I know in my case, I open the top and leave it open for a week or so before I close it overnight, to allow the fold wrinkles to smooth out. I do this all season long until storage time, when the top is left up until the first time out in warm spring weather.

So I'm not surprised really that my cover clips the top frame when it opens. I open it so infrequently, to prevent wear and tear on the system. Does it clip the tonneau cover every time it opens? I don't know, because I frequently open the top from outside of the car, allowing me to fold the 5th bow back to prevent the clip with my hand.

Hi-Step'n370z, I think you have the right idea with exercising the top once every month in storage. It will keep the hydraulic seals of those 8 cylinders washed with fluid, so that they can't dry out and begin leaking (like what happens with a lot of AC systems leaks over the winter months when the AC isn't used). You just have to ensure that its done when the car's temperature is above 40 degrees F.

Gene

Ok, I did try the tie back trick on my bungees, it "helped". It still hit but not as bad. I was not sure how much to "pinch off" so I did the smallest I could, it was not too hard except for the bungee is really several small ones, so I was not sure how well that would hold up with a zip tie on them. So I took the ties off and am back to normal.

opruitt,

Glad to hear that shortening that bungee cord has the possibilty of helping to solve the tonneau cover striking issue. I wonder if you traced down all of the section cords and did the same to each of them, if that mightdo the trick.

I've found that zip ties can really be locked if pliers are used to really pull them tight. But in this case, using a zip tie to shorten the 5th bow bungee cord, perhaps a better idea would be to use something akin to a waxed shoe lace or nylon cord.

Just an idea.

Gene

Ok, worked on it again tonight. I had did the "tie back", which helped (the tonneau didn't hit as hard), but the quick ties were very tight on the bungees and I was concerned it would cut/damage the segments. So it cut those off.

Tonight i just pulled the bungees through the upper loop. This is when the top is 1/2 open, the loop on top that the bungee segments are held in. I pulled the bungees (both sides of the car) as much as physically possible, by hand, toward the front of the car, sliding the bungee though the loop. So, the half of the bungee near the front of the car is loose, the back side half is tighter. Whala, no more hit AT ALL. So, for me at least I'm convinced this is the fix for my issue. I have opened and closed the top several times since, not one hit. Before this the hit was getting VERY loud on the drivers side.

Now, is this permanent? I doubt it. I did nothing to hold the bungee there. So I assume it will work its way back in to balance, IE both sides of the bungee fold being equal. When/if it starts hitting again I'll look at some way to hold the bungee on the loop so it won't slide back.

opruitt,

Can you post a picture or two of exactly where you pulled the bungee cords, with the top partly opened of course? It sure would help a lot of us out! Please ... please ... please!

Gene

Of course, I'll try to take a few pics tonight.

In the pics I'm pointing out the location (first pic) and the top of the bungee loop (2nd and 4th pics) from both sides of the car. In pics 2 and 4 it's hard to make out but my finger is on the top fabric loop the bungee is threaded through. That loop is where I pulled the bungee forward, tightening the back side and loosening the front of the bungee.

So far it's still has not hit again, however I've noticed its getting closer to hitting. Right after I had made my "adjustment" the tonneau cleared the bar (in pic 3, you can clearly see the scratch) by an inch now it just about is hitting again. On mine it's been only hitting on the drivers side, but I adjusted the bungees on both sides.

opruitt,

Thanks so much! This is making more sense as it goes along.

Nissan Service manual drawings don't show the 5th bow bungee cord as an assembly of 5 smaller cords, hence the confusion.

I'll dig into my top cords over the next day or so, and see what I can come up with. In my case, the passenger side hits the tonneau cover on opening.

I'll get back to this thread after I've had some time to play around with it.

Gene

Any further developments on this? Tempted to try replacing the hydraulic pump with one from tophydraulics to see if that makes any difference.

DocJ,

If you take the time to read through all of the posts on this thread, I believe you'll find that changing your hydraulic pump will not fix the problem.

On Page 3 of this thread, the 2nd last poster identifies the issue as the 5th bow bungee cord. He has pictures as to where to find them (one on each side) and explains that they stretch with age and don't pull the 5th bow completely vertical enough for the tonneau cover to clear when opening and closing.

They can both be changed for new ones, or you could possibly try to reposition the bulk of the bungee cords towards the front of the car to gain more elastic pulling power (eventually you'd have to repeat the process every so often as they would slide to the rear with useage), or possibly try to shorten them (loop a small section of the bungee cord on top of itself and tie it with a cord or a zip tie?), to gain more pulling power.

Unless you know for sure that you need the pump remanufactured, I'd suggest looking closer at the 5th bow bungee cords before committing to that repair.

Gene

:iagree:

Thanks, yes I've kept up with this thread. Not anxious to replace the pump. I did see one post mention the bungees were replaced which sort of fixed it but sort of didn't. Wasn't sure if the overall experience was that replacing the bungees definitely fixes the issue, or if it's mixed results and other potential solutions exist.

Interesting, looking up parts for bungee replacements and I've come across several parts websites that list the bungees as discontinued. Has Nissan changed its part or design for this in recent years?

DocJ,

Two things to consider.

Convertible top mechanisms require lubricating from time to time, and if yours is 18 years old ...? See YouTube videos for "convertible top lubrication" or similar. There are two or three to see. Just be careful, because too much lubrication can be squeezed out of a joint and cause top stains.

There are a couple of Nissan Parts suppliers online that show the 5th bow bungee cords and pricing out of the USA., Findlay Nissan Parts (Indiana) and Nissan USA eSTORE Parts. Both ask for the year, model, trim level, and then have you go through exploded diagrams of the car.

It can be tricky, but with patience, I came up with the bungee cord part numbers as 971F8 and 971F9 (rt and lt) and a price of $9.08 at the one and $121.91 on the other site just today. Go figure, but still cheaper than a new pump assembly by a long shot.

Myself, if I find the bungee problem gets to the point where it drives me crazy, I'll search for suppliers/manufacturers of bungee cord products, and see if I can come up with something similar, that can be retrofitted to the existing hardware. With the top partially opened, since you can slide the bungee cord forward and back, one should be able to fasten a made up bungee of similar design to its existing metal ends without having to take the top apart.

I'll cross that bridge when it becomes necessary.

Gene

Hi all,

I've been experiencing this problem as well. However, when I open my top for the first time during the day, the cover will hit the soft top, and when the soft top starts it's motion to fold and go into the storage bin, the soft top stops. The only thing I can do then is to close the soft top from that halted position, then re-open. When I re-open the soft top, there's almost no impact on the soft top, and the the soft top folds away as normal. Can you guys offer any other advice on this issue?
My assumption is that the impact from the cover hitting the soft top is causing the operation to stall when the top is trying to fold away.

ReeceZ,

From your description it sounds like you may have a frayed wire to a sail switch (switches at the ends of each hydraulic ram that signal the ram is at full extension or fully retracted), or a corroded/bad connection. The tonneau cover striking the folded top jars the connection completing the circuit?

If you think this may be the case, download the FSM from this site and research where to look for the wiring to the sail switches. You may have to remove the inner top lining to get at some of them, and that is in the FSM as well.

I'm not certain this is your issue, but its a good place to start, as others here have found frayed wires in the folding top mechanism and correcting them has cured their top problem. Good Luck!

Gene

My left (driver's side) rail has been hitting again for a couple of months. It's just automatic for me now to reach back with my left arm, while in the car, and pull the back bottom of the top up that extra 2-3 inches so it doesn't hit. lol

I spoke with the service manager at my local Nissan and he was sure there will be no permanent fix for this. He recommended writing a letter to Nisan North America consumer affairs. I haven't yet.

Thanks Gene, I will have a look at this.
A bit more background info on my issue: In 2015, a dealership replaced the hinges for the tonneau cover, saying that there was too much play in them.
Part numbers of the hinges:
972401ET0A HINGE-LID RH
972411ET0A HINGE-LID L

Fast forward to this year, the soft top was not opening properly at all. Another dealership found that this cover (attached) was broken and it was the cause of the soft top not opening. Some weeks later a new cover arrived and was fitted after they aligned the top. When they operated the top with the replacement cover, that broke as well (another cover is now on order). The top can still open without that cover.

Also, this dealership told me that Nissan has newer hinges than the ones replaced in 2015 for my car, which they ordered and installed. Since then I have two new issues:

1. When going over bumpy parts of road, there's a lot of rattling behind me, doesn't happen often, but it is there when the top is closed, but louder when the top is down << Really lost on this one, but I will take the Service Manager for a ride so he can hear it too.

2. When I went to fetch the car, I asked that they open the top. Sure enough, the tonneau cover struck the soft top on first opening, did it's stall, closed it, opened it again. I found that the tonneau cover was sitting abit skew on the driver side, they adjusted it while I waited but I just wonder if that will break the other cover that's on its way.