370Z Nismo Test Drive, Slightly Disappointed Coming From A 350
 

I test drove a 370Z Nismo today and I think I had built up too high an expectation for this car. I currently drive an '04 350Z Performance. I had a great experience at the dealer. During my first outing I was with my g/f. We drove on 45mph parkways and was able to accelerate up to around 60mph (too much traffic for much else). I was impressed by the handling and stable feel compared to the 350 when we caught a green right turn arrow at an intersection. Overall though, the acceleration was not discernibly greater than in the 350, though there was more torque at lower rpms.

When I came back I told the salesman about my lukewarm feelings. He asked if my g/f would swap places with him so he could show me to the main roads. They were not done building all the interchanges where we went so we got to make a u-turn at a light and go all out. The acceleration past 60 is stronger in the 370 and the increased torque is apparent when the rears break loose after shifting. Also, acceleration after a 6-3 downshift at 60mph is noticeably quicker. I was more impressed after my second drive in the car.

Overall though I am on the fence. Here's what I like about the car;
-Much better styling, great looking wheels
-Stable and responsive handling
-Comfortable highway ride, stiff suspension only noticeable on bumps
-Rev Match is pretty neat, thought I don't need it
-Comfy cabin
-Keyless entry and start (this is totally new to me)
-Fuel/Temp gauge wasn't as bad as I thought
-Much better interior material quality
-Much less tire noise

Here's what I don't like
-No speedometer on the triple gauge cluster
-Clock is a complete waste of one of the triple gauges, especially since there's one on the damn radio.
-Throttle response is very lazy/sluggish (blipping throttle to downshift)
-The additional 50HP over the 350Z doesn't feel like as much as I thought it would
-Side view is more restricted
-Clutch is overall too soft and feels econocar-like. The pedal starts off somewhat hard and then it just slumps to the floor after 1" or so of travel.
-The exhaust and motor noise that I love in the 350 is completely muted in the 370. In normal driving it may as well be an Altima. At WOT its still just too quiet to really get a performance oriented experience. My 350 has the Nismo exhaust on it, as does the 370.

The dealer is willing to deal and I left with a quote for $38,000 + freight, processing, tags, tax. I think I can get him to $38,000 including freight + tax, tags, processing.

The big question is, is the 370 more/better than the 350, and if so is the difference worth $40,000? I want to want this car...I just don't have the same desire to get it like I did when I bought my 350.

Unless you're dead set on having a Nismo the Nismo package isn't worth it, IMO.

I think the 370 overall is a better car than the 350 in that it has progressed from a previous point. The driving experience may be similar but overall I think it's a better car.

If you're on the fence you can always hold out. Seems like you really enjoy your 350 and I wouldn't be surprised to see future model year 370s receive some bump ups in performance like the 350s saw during their production run.

On a side note... do you have any experience with Function Tuned out in Dulles?

I do love my 350 - its been a trouble free and excellent performing car for the last 70K mi. I love having 300HP on tap whenever I want it yet still get 28mpg if I set the cruise. Right now I even use the thing to haul tools for my part-time mobile motorcycle maintenance business. I'm going to get a used truck or beater soon. If I get a new 370 it definitely will not be a tool hauler.

You bring up a good point about the base 370. A base 370 w/ sport pkg might be a better fit for me. The disparity between what I am getting over the 350 and how much the 370 Nismo costs is one of the things thats got me holding back. If its hard for me to tell much of a difference between my 350 and the 370 Nismo, I might find even less difference between the 370 base and 370 Nismo. If there's little difference in how it drives then there isn't good justification for the extra $6K.

I don't track/autox so anything that is easily apparent on the track I probably won't see or use. I drive somewhat aggressively, definitely spirited. Maybe the extras on the Nismo really aren't what I need...?

Thanks...you got me thinking that I need to go back and ask to test drive a base 370. And I haven't heard of Function Tuned. Have you worked with them?

Yeah, definitely go back and test drive one. These things go for invoice so the savings is going to be big over the Nismo. :tup:

I have a 350 nismo now, and wouldnt buy a nismo again. Not worth the money for the small gains.

all the things you don't like are easily fixed with simple mods... you can get a great sound with a simple muffler swap... JWT flywheel and clutch for engine responsiveness... this thing comes alive when you add a few more HP with bolt ons and even more so when you drop ~100 lbs

go for it

I'm just waiting for you to start driving without doors and a hood. :icon17:

Lol!

+1 - right on the money.

Nismo exhuast on the 370Z is very muted...

I agree... and would add that even on just looks alone I think the standard 370Z is a more appealing car.

I too think the clock is kind of a disappointment, Nissan could have at least made it analog to better match the other gages. The car could also use a bit more exhaust note inside the car. I think the exhaust note sounds great but just doesn’t resonate in the cabin as much as it could... but as others have mentioned that's easy to fix and set-up just how each driver wants.

Did u drop 100lbs? If yes how, and was it within reason? Besides rims and exhaust I can't think of any reasonable weight reduction without removing seats and etc

Removing the junk in the trunk is good for about 50lbs in a few minutes.... check out the weight reduction thread.

My disappointments with the 370 over the 350 weren't apparent right away. It's really a lot of little things combined... from a driver standpoint, my 350 was just more fun to drive and I felt 100% connected to the car from day 1. I never spent 1 second trying to like the car. I never felt like anything needed changed.

For a car that was completely redesigned, I certainly don't think the 370 is good as it could be, or should be. Then again, nissan is trying to make the car as marketable as possible and at that I think they did a good job. Although, in hindsight, I would seriously reconsider getting rid of a perfectly good 350 for a 370.

no hood! good idea! :rolleyes:

+1... you will find 50 easily... 100 lbs is not hard at all, while still preserving stock look and feel... spare tire is 30 lbs... an aftermarket exhaust could save you 30+ lbs... etc

I've had that feeling before... I remember going from my first gen rx7 to second gen... it was a better car, but i was just USED TO the old one... give it time - what you're describing is more related to what you are used to... you might even want to go out and drive some radically different feeling cars like a corvette, 911, etc... will help you put it all in perspective

At the end of the day, remember that a bone stock 370 gets around a typical track many seconds faster than a bone stock 350. It IS a better performing car whether it feels that way to you or not.

Begin rant. :D

When I first got the car it didn't seem quite right, but I attributed it to the point you make.... being so used to the 350 (had it for 5 years)... I thought I just needed time to adjust. But as time has gone by (7,000 miles on the 370), I feel more and more disconnected. I'm really trying to like it, and there are definitely a lot of things I DO like... it's just weird. I really should like this car more than I do.

Stock for stock it's no doubt faster in the twisties. I'm not seeing a huge difference in straight line acceleration though, not the kind I would like to see at least. The flat torque curve is pretty impressive, it's as flat as kansas, but it's a double edged sword. It doesn't feel fast. You never feel a peak or a surge. To top it off, it really isn't all that fast. My base DE stock ran a 14.1@99mph. This car ran a 14.0@101.5 with a better 60ft. I got about 20 passes in. I was getting perturbed I couldn't justify the helmet I was wearing, so I started power shifting instead of speed shifting to no avail. Despite the fact I am at 1054ft altitude, and the ambient conditions were fairly different, to me it's pretty disappointing. After I dropped about 150lbs from my DE(which was already ligher to begin with), spent less than $400 in breathing mods, I was running 13.7 @ 104. In a stright line I surprised a lot of people. Modded it felt faster, and it definitely was (DA conversions applied). I was a little relieved that my butt dyno wasn't lying to me. On the road courses I passed up the HR's in the straights and out-braked them at the end. In the twisties it was mostly even to a slight disadvantage because my open end differential didn't allow me to power around-out of turns and they all had the VLSD's. I have yet to track the 370, but I'm curious how it will stand up on the same tracks compared to my slightly modded 350.

Speaking of VLSD, that brings me to another point. When is nissan going to offer up a model with a REAL LSD? Even the Nismo 370 gets the same glorified open end. What gives? Personally I almost assume not have a LSD at all unless it's a mechanical/clutch type, but that's just me.

The side view mirrors are an absolute design flaw. They are designed to where you cannot see your blind spots, which is the entire point of having side view mirrors. I don't need 3 mirrors to see behind me, then again, the rear view is pretty horrid too.

The gas lid. I hate having to push on the paint to get to the filler. Granted the latch on my 350z stuck all the time and I would pop the hatch and pull the lever (real easy since it was gutted), I'd rather they just improve the existing design. The location of the filler is also in a really dumb position. A lot of pumps practically rest on the exterior of the car... too close for comfort. Every time I get gas I feel like doing a face palm.

Handling? This car definitely grips harder, as long as the surface is smooth. When you are cornering at decent speeds and hit a significant bump... you go sailing, and the recovery process is not always a pleasant one. My 350z stayed MUCH more composed in these situations. I'm not sure if this is because of the reworked suspension, more unsprung weight, wider tires, or all of the above, but I don't like it.

The buick/boat like front to back weight transfer is also weird. I'm sure they did that to make the car faster from a standing start, I just don't see it as being necessary for this kind of car. It loses that flat go-kart-like feeling. On the bright side brake dive seems a bit improved.

The car also doesn't like to rotate, mainly due to wider tires. Once it does decide to rotate though, it comes around a lot faster, due to the shorter wheelbase. Not necessarily a bad thing, just a difference I have noticed. I guess it's a little less fun if you are trying to have some fun without going balls out.

The gauges are pretty retarded. In some conditions the gas/water temp gauges are impossible to read, and the gauge that only functions as a clock is absolutely useless. I'd rather have a meaningful gauge.

The stereo - I deleted the stereo from my 350 after it ate a CD. I never missed it because I'm not much of an audiophile. But jeebus, I must say, this stereo system sucks pretty bad. Granted it is a base model, and nissan always skimps the stereos in base model anythings.... having 4 front speakers, pathetic ones at that, and a head unit that seems as if it was from the 80's seems a bit ridiculous to me.

Seats? These seats are more tailored to the typical american fat-*** / meat head. The 350s seats hugged me and did a good job and keeping me in my seat when at the limits. These seats are designed to be more comfortable for bigger people at the expense of normal sized people. I don't feel sucked in. (the fact the seat clicks and moves side to side is another thread)

Overall, to me it feels like less of a drivers car and more bland... tailored for the masses... despite the looks and numbers on paper.

I think I will have to get bit by the mod bug before this car is going to grow on me. :)

those are all fair points IMO... and no question this car was designed for the masses... check out my journal to see all the mods i'm doing to overcome these shortfalls... you can get a OSG or Carbonetic real diff for <$1,500. some lighter drivetrain parts and wheels tires to get engine responsiveness. stiffer suspension will help weight transfer. I'm putting in a spa water temp / oil pressure gauge in place of clock - not too much money. base model + $5,000 mods is money well spent. beyond that base model + $10,000-15,000 = legit race car...

The oft discussed counterpoint to this is, 'why didn't nissan just build it right to begin with?'... but of course this IS a mainstream car and all us performance junkies are going to either have to mod it or go buy a porsche or lotus or ...

or 06/07 BMW M coupe? That's what I ended up with. 07 CPO with 4 years of warranty/100,000 miles (and they even pay for the oil changes) ran me 37k. 06 will run 32k about.

To me it was more fun than a Cayman S. May not beat the Z on the track (almost sure it won't), but it feels faster and is more fun for me than any other car I drove. The engine is bloody amazing! American mags didn't like it much, but the Brits love the thing. Check out this review that helped me make up my mind: BMW Z4 M Coupe vs Porsche Cayman S - Feeling the burn - Top Gear - right on the money
Oh, and the thing comes with a concierge button... wtf!

I feel you on the Z4M. Driven it and loved it. Oddly, one of the best times I've had driving a car, was at the BMW Cancer Drive, when I was handed the keys to a simple Z4 3.0 with sports pack. I didn't expect much, but I bonded with that car. That M engine is a dream. The Z engine has all the tech, but the M engine has that and refinement.


To the op, I understand. It's hard coming from a 350, because the 370 is an evolution, the 350 sort of rocked the spot when it hit. I went to the Mitsu dealer to buy an EVO and they had a 350, drove it and bought it instantly.


My thinking is like this. The 350 may have more of an instant payoff, but the 370 is going to be even better when you start throwing some mods at it.

Everyone misses that torquey rush of the DE, but damn does it fall flat after that.

What I love about the 370 is you really get rewarded for some mods on it as evidenced on this forum. With the 350 DE you didn't get much for bolt ons, where as the 370 you can unlock its inner glory.

I agree on the seats, I loved the seats on the 350. They have certainly changed them for rotund Americans. I really wish they would throw some Recaros in there, like many other brands are doing.

For me the Z still represents an amazing bargain... A very focused performance car that can be unlocked for more and a great combination of many other cars in just the right package.

I am a bit puzzled by the times this car is putting out. I am reminded of the 97+ NSX with the 3.2 and 290 claimed hp. Multiple tests all had the car running around a 13 flat or even a 12.9 with very tight traps of 108-110. I know it weighs less, but you would think you would see the car falling off on the traps, but it doesn't.

Is it the tolerances, I would just expect this car to always nail a 106+. I know this is dangerous because of conditions etc, but I never had difficulty nailing the stock time in my Supra of 13.4 13-5 and 105 to 106.

Anyway this car is awesome, and I am very thankful to Nissan for producing it. We can say whatever want about the fine engineering over at Honda and Toyota, but they for the most part have abandoned their sports car efforts, whilst Nissan is still producing two high performance cars.

i say this every time and nobody believes it.
my 05 350z had very hard suspension and it was stiff on bumps.
my 09 370z has a very soft and cushion suspension over bumps.

i Would guess a soft suspension over bumps is worse than a hard one?

My ideal suspension would NOT be lowered but stiffer like my 350z.

Shouldn't the opposite be true? I'd imagine softer suspension would help keep the tire hugging the road even when the car rebounds upwards, while a harder suspension would make the tire and car bounce upwards after everybump, and reduce the contact patch of the tire with the ground.

the bumpier the course/road the more compliance desired... but if you are on a track that has few bumps, you want a BRICK!

:iagree:

I disagree as I have tracked mine vs a normal 350z. It is not that small of gains as you may think. It is well balanced and really performs well on the track. On the street there is not much of a gain at all that you will notice.

Now the 370z NISMO has less stuff than the 350Z NISMO got that helps handling. So it's not as noticeable of a move as the 350z was to the NISMO.

350z vs 370z model's yep. NISMO vs NISMO nope. It seems the 350z NISMO actually has been better in all the tests and it might be due to the seam welds.

Could you show me the 350 vs 370 nismo test?
Because according to road and track the 370 nismo is faster than the 350 nismo(0 to 60,1/4 mile).

NISMO 350Z had higher slalom speeds in the test vs the 370z nismo tests from the same magazines as of recent. Please search. I wasn't talking about 0-60/1/4 either.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...nda-Nissan.pdf
350 nismo Speed thru 700-ft slalom 69.4 mph

Road & Track Magazine - Road Test Update: 2010 Nismo 370Z (9/2009)
370 nismo Speed thru 700-ft slalom 69.9 mph

Yep and the NISMO did 71.X mph. Thank ya.

New Cars, Used Cars, Car Reviews and Pricing - Edmunds.com

I have also driven both cars, and sorry but the 370z doesn't handle like my car does and it's softer too.

Full Test: 2007 Nissan Nismo 350Z

and to compare

http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...hotopanel..2.*

Edmunds.com

LOL

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6875

and to compare

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=8203

Road&Track.com LOL

Wow this site is becoming more of the other Z site everyday. :icon18:

X2 I also like the newer one after I got to drive in one yesterday. The car rely pulls harder than the 350z's I drove.:tup:

What did you drive before your 350? I had a '00 Celica GT-S and the step up to the 350 was huge. Now going from the 350 to the 370 is a much more incremental step. Perhaps your expectations are a bit (too) high...

:iagree:

The 370 is an evolution. The 350 was a revelation because there was a drought of focused JDM sports car since the death of the 90s halo cars. Also the 350 had that initial torque rush with the DE that is no longer present, it's as flat as our interstates.

Still, the engine has the high end that was severely lacking with the DE and that annoying damping bumpy suspension has been fixed with the 370.

The 370 is also more rewarding to unlock. It would of taken something like a v8 or forced induction to really set the car apart from the 350. One thing it did do IMO was make the 350 look dated, which is an accomplishment given how fresh that design was when it hit.

For the 350 guys like myself we just need to unlock the 370!! The most important part is the price is right, some major issues have been taken care of, and it still retains its Z aura IMO

I agree with most on what you say, but the 350z is by far not dated or look dated. They still look so much a like. Also the 350Z suspension was fixed in late 04 I believe.

I think when you look at them side by side the 350 looks dated. That being said I think it is a classic design and will remain timeless. As time goes by and you see less and less of them, I believe they will become even more appreciated in terms of aesthetics.

I owned mine fairly close to the original release date and that car received so many looks, comments, and thumbs up it was amazing. Even well after the car had been out if I went to a small town, it would still grab that praise.

The best part was the kids who saw it. Little kids would always be stricken with the design, it reminded me of being young and seeing my first 3rd gen RX7.

I know when I hit a car show and see a 300zx, I will stop and admire the design. That sleek wedge design is gone nowadays and it strikes me everytime I see it. I can imagine the 350 doing this in 10 years as well.

Demon, I think you're absolutely correct. I traded a '00 Nissan Frontier Desert Runner for the '04 350Z. It was a great truck that gave me 86K trouble free miles and I regret selling it to this day. I started looking because a slew of cars were coming out that got more power and better gas mileage. It was a 170HP 3.3L SOHC V6 w/ 5-spd manual and I got around 17-18mpg on a good day. I no longer needed a truck to schlup back and forth to school with. As soon as I test drove a 350 and hit the gas I was done :tiphat:

I did a lot of thinking over the weekend. I'm not going to make a purchase now. I am going to delay for at least a year and hope that in that time the 370 gets some updates. My thoughts are;

-I can't justify $40K OTD for a vehicle I'm lukewarm about. This is really the main point for me.
-The trade in arrangement is backwards for me - I'd be trading in a 350 I'm completely happy with for $9.5-10K towards a vehicle I'd be 80% satisfied with.
-I would actually sooner get a newer 350Z. I should have jumped on one of the Nismos back in December when they were $10K off sticker right off the bat.
-I agree with the posts that the 370 will receive the 350HP bump and some other upgrades after the 2010 MY. I hope that the digital speedo replaces that damn clock. Haha that is really one of the bigger problems I have with this car.
-I'd rather be a the370z.com lurker :happydance:

The 350z will go down as one of the most beautiful cars ever made. When it came out in 03 it was such a fresh change from all the other cars out there and it brought a new revolution to the Z enthusiasts. Even today it doesnt look dated at all. While the 370 looks more raw and cutting edge, the 350 still gets looks everywhere here in so cali(now thats sayin something). And thank God Nissan made the Nismo 370 look alot better than what they did with the Nismo 350z. That thing ,while functional, looks like it was beaten with the ugly stick.