Bad sales new for z's
 

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the...dy-z-505493160


can't say it surprises me. just means its a hell of a lot more exclussive than the 350.

read. discuss.

Read it and one of the comments is correct.
The Z is beaten in most of the categories it competes in by any other competitor, and then the price is in a bracket that is not the best value for what you get.

Yep, exactly

Honestly, if all I cared about was performance/price ratio and whatever I would have definitely got a Mustang/Camaro/WRX etc. whatever the hell else you want to put in that price bracket.

Main reason why I got a Z was its uncommon-ness (at least in my parts of the world) compared to the rest of the cars. I like to stand out from the rest of the pack :tup:

The price increase is the craziest thing in my mind.

I wonder how many folks driving 09-12 Z's would have bought in at the current price.

WRONG. Science: The Z is perfect. :ugh2:

It's an interesting write-up on a discussion we've kicked around in here already.

There's a couple things to consider. First, the early 2000s were dominated by import tuning. American "sports" cars were GARBAGE. Since the retro phase came back ~2005, they've really improved and seen a lot of sales. I see far fewer entry-mid level sports cars on the road today, probably due to the economic pinch of the last decade. However, with things starting to turn around, cars like the FR-S/BRZ have better chances of succeeding.

Also, 03 was the first year of the 350Z, which I think was more of a brand new car to most people than the 370z. It had less in common with the 300ZX than the 370 does with the 350, visually and mechanically.

And, as has been beaten to death in the forums, the 370z is part of a dying breed. (Relatively) Big displacement, naturally aspirated, kinda-heavy cars are vanishing. The VQ can't hang around much longer. At this point it would be a freshman in college. It's reliable, it's just old.

As for a BRZ/FR-S competitor, it's also been droned on and on about that EVERY car company wants a competitor for it. I'm of the opinion that Nissan keeps the Z with 240 option beneath it. I think it'd really suck if Nissan's performance options were either a featherweight introductory sports car or a $100k super car with nothing in between. But, of course I'm biased (toward awesome).

In 2009, the Z was way higher on the food chain than it is now. It had more power than the V6 Mustang of that year, more than the V8 Mustang of the previous generation, and offered a much better driving experience. V8 muscle cars are (kind of) immune to the demand for more advanced/efficient engineering, because their market still wants to go fast in a straight line after shredding some rubber. Cars with smaller engines (V6 and under) have to face this challenge head on, because that market doesn't buy cars to spit Skoal and listen to Van Halen. We want more out of our engineering.

Any way you slice it, Nissan's got their work cut out for them. The Z has, in my perception, always resided in the gray area between GTIs, Civic Sis, etc and V8 muscle. It's a tough role to play.

I love my z and have fully enjoyed every mile that I've driven l. That's all that matters to me:driving:. And I like the looks of the z way better than any other other car in its category.

A lot of people talk about the weight of the car, but its competitors weigh more. 200+ pounds more. The only way to shed more weight is to make the Z smaller, and it is already smaller compared to it's competitors. There is barely any room in the engine bay, and the hatch isn't exactly big either. How much smaller can it get? And they are already using expensive aluminum to drop weight, again making it more expensive.

There really is only one problem with the Z, and that is the engine. Not enough power output in contrast to other cars in its class. At 3.7 liters, there isn't much more room for growth. The only solution to catch up is FI, and that will just make the car even more expensive, and more expensive to repair. But I don't see another way unless they go v8. Hahahaha. I really do wish that would happen though. I know, I know, the Z is a 6 cylinder car. But if they can make the leap from inline to v, why not add two cylinders too?

Or drop it back to 3.5, then put a turbo on it, which is what everyone really wants. Tuners would be salivating. But what would that do to the price?

The Z34 looks 100x better than any other car mentioned in this thread. I know power is everything for some people, but I wanted a car that also looked like pure sex, so I got a 370Z. I guarantee you all of those people in the comments of that article would turn their head as a 370Z drove by. They can justify why they don't want to buy one, but that doesn't change the fact they will keep their eyes glued to it like magnets until it's out of sight.

I think the Z is very much overpriced compared to Camaro SS and Mustang GT from a performance standpoint. You used to be able to argue that the fit and finish on those cars was terrible but it isn't so anymore. The Z is still better but not by a long shot these days. The main problem with the Z(to enthusiasts) is that it doesn't respond well to mods. Most enthusiasts will buy the car they like regardless of if it's better than its competitors or not with the intention of modding the car to BE better. With the Z it takes 10k to boost it so that It can actually compete with cars that most guys can throw I/h/E on and be hauling a$$. Which can really only be solved by boost.
If Nissan could have somehow boosted the vq35/37 even if it was only to like 375hp at least then we'd have a car that would have been more likely to respond to mods not to mention easier to tune etc.

They aren't vanishing as evidenced by the sales numbers of Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers. I agree with most of what you said though, especially about the grey area between GTIs and American v8s. But I do think there is space there for it.

Awesome.

The 2003 350z started in the $26k range, that is why they sold a ton of them. The current Z prices are too high to get high sales volume. The next Z needs to have a base model in the $26k range again and a 2+2 option again and it would compete well against the BRZ.

Yeah, I was referring more to cars that aren't American muscle. They're the exception to the rule, because they will always have a "no replacement for displacement" following. (Although rumor has it Ford is slapping a turbo 4 in their next Mustang instead of the V6.) And I actually like a lot of muscle cars too. I've always liked the V8 Mustang.

I meant more of the compact sports car or commuter car. I was talking with my friend the other night about how he loved his 91 Beretta in high school, and how big and stupid that V6 was. You'll never see that again.

No 2+2 option, keep it 2 seater only, but I agree on lowering the price per the current performance. If they opted to do a 3.0L and add boost at the current price point it would be worth it.

But most of that volume are the V6 models in the $22-$26 range. If you want sales volume you have to compete in this lower price range. This is the price the average buyer wants to spend. Having a back seat, however small it is, is also what the average buyer wants.

:tup: Ithought it was good bang for the buck.
Gt-R was too expensive.
The mustang and ford reliability (for me) kicked it off my list although I really wanted a 302Boss...and there are sooooo many Mustangs around.
Corvette too expensive and "old" for me
and the Camaro was just plain to large. If I wanted a family sedan I would have bought a Maxima or an Accord.
THere really wasn't anything else I was interested in becuase I wanted a true sports car. One that looked like a sports car, not one that could just go fast. I wanted the exclusivity (is that a word?)of a two seater that was sexy.
I have a Z! and it turns heads even with Zero mods :tup:

I would be interested in seeing the GM/Ford/ sports car sales numbers. Have they gone down too?

This. I was walking to my car in a parking lot yesterday and saw a young guy (~20) looking at my car. When I opened the door he said, "Hey man, nice car!". Had I been driving a car that sells 10 times as well, there's no way that conversation happens because I'm just one of 1000s on the road. I'll take my slow, heavy Z, any day over the Mustang or Camaro.

If Honda and Toyota wanted to make a sport car it would blow Nissan away in quality,pricing, resale value.

Nissan is a cheap company, nobody really wants their overpriced cars only their cheap economy cars.

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/wp-con...rt-585x377.jpg


Don't have Camaro numbers, but they were doing much better than Ford last I checked.

YES!!!
370Z is just so sexy .
Looks attracted me first. After looking at engine specs I thought 332hp would be enough for me. Coming from a Honda with probably 100hp it is a rather big leap.

:tup: :tiphat: TY!

I will tell you , I live in a very depresssed area of Ohio and there are sooooo many mustangs, all years, all versions....but mostly run down and not well taken care of and badly modded....embarasses me to think I almost bought one.

What the average consumer looks at:

200hp for $24k - FR-S/BRZ
300hp for $24k - V6 Mustang/Camaro
300hp for $32k - 370z
400hp for $32k - Mustang GT/Camaro

What's the best value for hp? Mustang/Camaro

I, like a lot of people here, picked the 370z for the more "sporty" feel, design, and because it was less common. However, the first thing people mention and compare is hp (rightly or wrongly) and that's just the way it is. There certainly is something crazy cool about having 400hp from a $32k car. I almost got one, but it didn't have the same steering "feel" as the Mustang (regardless of how well it actually handles, it doesn't FEEL like its handling well). Most roads are straight(ish), so people in the USA value power more.

Someone has pointed out, the price increase is really the problem. For me, I need both Touring and Sport packs. For 2013, the price is around $40K+. That's too much.

I picked up my 09 (fully loaded with NAV) for 26K about 15 months ago. I wouldn't pay 40K+ for a 2013.

:tup: yeah, I got a 2012 sport for 36k (plus or minus).. that was my price point...max. more than that I was not comfortable with...not rich, just a comfortable income and I could not justify spending 40K+ on a two seat vehicle.

wow i had no idea the price went up that much. MSRP on a nismo is now 43 almost 44k?!

i know no one pays MSRP, but wow. i think my 2010's MSRP was only 40k. would definitely not pay almost 4k more today, especially since i only paid 35k for mine, new. jesus

ok, read the first line "My first car was a 2004 350Z" :facepalm: just told me this kid will not understand the 370Z and why it is the way it is.

I think you need to look at a lot of things to really know why the sales are so low compared to the 350Z. There was a huge shift in priorities and a lot of performance cars entering the market when the 370Z came out. A big chunk of the target demo was also already filled. Think about it, if you're a fan of the Z and already have a 350 in the garage, it wouldn't be an easy decision to fork over money for a new one during a recession. I'd say the large amount of 350Z sales definitely hindered the overall sales for the 370. They sold something like 150k 350z's overall. It's a nich car and in many way impractical as a two seater. The performance side is subjective, the 370Z was faster than the 09 stang. Nissan just fell asleep since then.

Also a bit unfair to compare a car sales volume in a different segment. It wouldn't make sense to compare the FR-S/BR-Z sales to Boxter,Cayman or Z4 sales for example.

I have always owned Z's...The 370Z I bought for Looks and the feel of the road when I drive it.

I never see another 370Z on the road, and that is fine by me...Both my Z's are rare to see on the road and I like it that way.

Mai Wei Tao's comment was spot on BIG tIME.

"The 370Z is one of the most distinctive cars on the road. At least it is within a price range most would consider affordable. It's styling addressed many of the shortcomings with the 350Z, namely that the design felt incomplete and was starting to look dated by the end of it's run.

The problem with the Z is that it's market has dried up. I think it's a similar problem to what we've seen with less expensive Japanese coupes. The people to whom the car appeals can't afford it and everyone else wants something more upmarket. This is evidenced by the fact that it's expensive twin, the G35/G37 coupe continues to sell fairly well. People want their sportiness immersed in luxury.

A second problem is that it's performance is middling. It's never been a standout in comparisons. There has always been a car better at every individual task than the Z. The fact that people modify them is irrelevant if other cars offer a better starting point.

The Z doesn't enjoy the same kind of loyalty as a Mustang or a Camaro. If they're going to offer a BR-Z/FR-S competitor it would make more sense to revive 240SX. Going upmarket doesn't make sense either, as they've already got the aforementioned G37 and the GT-R. I don't know if the market is there for anything in between either of those cars. A baby GT-R might make more sense.

The point is that as nice as it would be to see a proper successor to the Z I just don't think the market exists anymore. Look at the attention the Juke-R has generated. I don't think the kind of person interested in a performance-oriented compact SUV is ever going to be interested in a low slung sports car. The few who are shop elsewhere."
written by, Mai Wei Tao

Selling more than ford still, but GM numbers dropped as well, Camaro was selling in the 6 digits for a while. Now the are in the 80,000 units annual range, give or take 5,000 units

Well it looks sexy as hell

Amen, hallelujah, and preach on brother... People who buy Z's need to feel like they are one with their car. Being one with the Z helps overcome many of the Z's drawbacks.

But people are so media influenced that your chart is all they see.

I'm okay with this article. I never am one to buy a car with a high production number and I do still enjoy the fact that I barely see any around town. I've actually been looking at a car that has less than 1000 built and it's probably not the best for it's money, but I love the looks and handling.

The article doesn't talk about how many Z34's were destroyed in the 2011 tsunami or bring up the fact that Z33 people don't seem to like the Z34 for whatever reason.

That chart is pretty spot-on. I was considering a 2012 Mustang when I bought my Z, but I bought it for a lot of the same reasons everyone else did. You see a Mustang every three miles.

And somebody a couple posts up touched on why muscle cars are so popular in America. The majority of our roads are straight, wide, and cruise-friendly. While the ride of the Z may not bother a lot of people on this forum, myself included, it's not REALLY a cruise friendly car to most people. It's stiff, you sit low, there's no steering play, and it's loud.

I don't care about that stuff, so they weren't buying factors. I wanted the Z because it's not that common, and I live around some twisty back roads that are fun the zip around on. I also stayed away from the Mustang because used ham sandwiches have better resale value.

The camaro is the best cruise car out there. Seats so comfy, they feel like sex. Loads of torque and immense steering feedback. Performance related downsides like weight,width and outward visibility don't make it ideal as a performance car. But it handles perfectly for the cruising street driver that loves to hit the throttle and have fun, or maybe go to the track for a few drag races...:tup:

The enthusiast can do more with a camaro than what i stated, but that's just where my experience with the Camaro took me. :tiphat:

this article is getting waay too much attention than it deserves.

/THREAD

Every time Nissan releases a new from-the-ground-up version of the Z and the GT-R they are leading the pack in performance value and practical technology implementation (dual clutch, Syncro Rev Match, quick 7 speed auto, etc) . The 370Z has been out since late 2008 and is nearing the end of its life cycle. For whatever business reason Nissan had to not go with FI or additional displacement, the 370Z is still in the top 99% of cars on the road. I am convinced that a hybrid Z will arrive soon enough with mega-torque numbers and a dual clutch tranny. Everyone else will follow 2-3 years later.

I laugh everytime someone says they like the 350z more or think the 370z is ugly.

I mean are you blind? This car is a neck breaker.

POST OF THE DAY! Well said! :tiphat:

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2009

Every car has it's problems, troll. Even your beloved BS cars... Your mouth must look identical to someone's azzhole. Cuz all you talk is shyt.