Nissan 370Z Forum
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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Nissan 370Z General Discussions (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/)
-   -   Fr-s/ Brz. > 370z? (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/57163-fr-s-brz-370z.html)

Cmike2780 07-02-2012 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadoquad (Post 1801887)
I'm not sure I agree. Scion has always made car mods a part of their advertising, and Scooby's get modded all the time. I think it's just a matter of time before their aftermarket explodes. Especially since their target demographic is younger males. 25k entry price, rwd platform... I don't know, I imagine big things on the aftermarket.

I could be wrong, tho
It's going to be a while. They said the same thing about the Genesis coupe & 370z. I think they've squeezed all they can from this engine without going F.I. and I doubt you'll see much from a CAI and CBE. There's only so much bolt-on engine mods you can do.

b1adesofcha0s 07-02-2012 11:23 AM
Saw one on the street this past weekend while I was in NY. It does look pretty nice, but I'll also agree that it is not on the same level as the Z. Also FR-S competing with the BRZ :rofl2:

brucelidat 07-02-2012 11:25 AM
:icon18: :roflpuke2::rofl2::roflpuke2:

We all know car salesmen are idiots who don't know anything about cars themselves.

This was referring to shineybluez's post

b1adesofcha0s 07-02-2012 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyBlueZ (Post 1801944)
Went with my friend to Subaru cuz we were both interested in the brz, and I would 100% say the brz is direct competition with the fr-s, seeing how the salesman spent the entire time badmouthing the fr-s lol Talking about how it handles like crap and it doesn't feel right the entire time it's driven haha

It was a lot smaller than I thought in person compared to pics. The Z is fine for me but I'm certain my head would hit the brz roof and I'd be quite uncomfortable in it. The rear seats are a joke, obviously. Also, some of the exterior styling is quite ugly and really cheapens the look of the car (like the sharp angled front signal lights, fender vents, or the yellow turn signal right above the front wheel well). Feels like they copied from one too many other cars and mashed them all up (the rx-8, bmws, our Zs).

However.. for the price, especially if I was still in high school and my tastes were a bit less refined.. I would probably be in love with the brz. Anyway, my friend ended up leaving Subaru with the intention of buying an sti instead :tup:

The sales guys were classic though. It seems the Subarus around here are trying to create the illusion the brz is super exclusive and rare, so we were told right away they only had 3 brzs on the lot but they were all sold already, so we could look at them from outside, but not inside. Also, if we ordered one that day, we probably wouldn't even get it until JANUARY.. it's that sought after. The best part was when I asked when they'd have one for test drive the guy goes "TEST DRIVE?!? HAH! THERE ARE NO TEST DRIVES! We can't even keep 1 unsold, let alone have one for demo!" I was like "umm so everyone that buys the brz just walks in and pays for it without driving it first?" and he goes, "yeah.. because people that really KNOW cars.. people that buy the brz.. they know. They just know. No one needs a test drive. If you really want a test drive, you can get one at Scion.. they'll have tonnes of fr-s around for test drive. Just know the experience will be inferior to the brz." at which point another salesman leans over and says, "It's true.. people don't request test drives for the brz since everywhere you look the car is just being raved over and it's known fact at this point the ride is just perfect." :roflpuke2:
:bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

brucelidat 07-02-2012 11:27 AM
this thread is going to explode today

kenchan 07-02-2012 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucelidat (Post 1801942)
The BRZ doesn't impress me looks-wise. I definitely think our Z looks better. It is a light tossable car, though. With a turbo thrown in, it'll be formidable on the track compared to our NA Zs. With boosting, though, you're probably getting into the Z's price range which I guess kind of makes it okay to compare stock vs modded. I definitely think the Z is much nicer, though. Plus, in a few months or by next year, we're probably going to see them everywhere.
bruce- honestly one should not be even comparing the BRZ to the 370Z. it's literally a poorman's Z with rear seats. as you stated, it completely defeats the purpose if one adds turbo kits and stuff to get the powerband into Z territory. by that time with similarly invested mods ($ wise), the Z would be in muscle car territory.

i think the BRZ/FRS should be compared to non-aspirated :icon17: subcompact wannabie cars.

b1adesofcha0s 07-02-2012 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 1801960)
bruce- honestly one should not be even comparing the BRZ to the 370Z. it's literally a poorman's Z with rear seats. as you stated, it completely defeats the purpose if one adds turbo kits and stuff to get the powerband into Z territory. by that time with similarly invested mods ($ wise), the Z would be in muscle car territory.

i think the BRZ/FRS should be compared to non-aspirated :icon17: subcompact wannabie cars.
Too bad some BRZ's are selling for as much as a base Z.

Non-aspirated :roflpuke2:

shadoquad 07-02-2012 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyBlueZ (Post 1801944)
Went with my friend to Subaru cuz we were both interested in the brz, and I would 100% say the brz is direct competition with the fr-s, seeing how the salesman spent the entire time badmouthing the fr-s lol Talking about how it handles like crap and it doesn't feel right the entire time it's driven haha
Same god damn car :facepalm:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyBlueZ
The sales guys were classic though. It seems the Subarus around here are trying to create the illusion the brz is super exclusive and rare, so we were told right away they only had 3 brzs on the lot but they were all sold already, so we could look at them from outside, but not inside. Also, if we ordered one that day, we probably wouldn't even get it until JANUARY.. it's that sought after. The best part was when I asked when they'd have one for test drive the guy goes "TEST DRIVE?!? HAH! THERE ARE NO TEST DRIVES! We can't even keep 1 unsold, let alone have one for demo!" I was like "umm so everyone that buys the brz just walks in and pays for it without driving it first?" and he goes, "yeah.. because people that really KNOW cars.. people that buy the brz.. they know. They just know. No one needs a test drive. If you really want a test drive, you can get one at Scion.. they'll have tonnes of fr-s around for test drive. Just know the experience will be inferior to the brz." at which point another salesman leans over and says, "It's true.. people don't request test drives for the brz since everywhere you look the car is just being raved over and it's known fact at this point the ride is just perfect." :roflpuke2:
How does he say the car is better and then tell you to test drive the other one for impressions in the same breath? Epic fail of a salesman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmike2780 (Post 1801947)
It's going to be a while. They said the same thing about the Genesis coupe & 370z. I think they've squeezed all they can from this engine without going F.I. and I doubt you'll see much from a CAI and CBE. There's only so much bolt-on engine mods you can do.
The engine bay for the FT86 is huge. You can fit a lot under there. Time will tell.

kenchan 07-02-2012 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s (Post 1801968)
Too bad some BRZ's are selling for as much as a base Z.

Non-aspirated :roflpuke2:
:icon17:

dang, i thought them were like $25K. :( no sense of cost savings here. :ugh2: just get the 370Z then and do it right from the beginning.

shadoquad 07-02-2012 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 1801993)
:icon17:

dang, i thought them were like $25K. :( no sense of cost savings here. :ugh2: just get the 370Z then and do it right from the beginning.
Um, base BRZ is still cheaper. It's around 26 or 27k. The Limited is 28-30. base, no-frills Z is 31-32k.

( Click to show/hide )
Base Mustang GT with Track Package, Recaro Seats, and Tech Package is selling at invoice right now for 31k :stirthepot:

Cmike2780 07-02-2012 12:05 PM
I like the frs/brz for what it is, but it isn't exactly 'cheap' and would much rather have an MX-5. The Z is just too different an audience to even compare the two. To get close to the performance numbers of a stock Z, you'd probably end up spending a ton more on the frs/brz.

homeryansta 07-02-2012 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyBlueZ (Post 1801944)
Went with my friend to Subaru cuz we were both interested in the brz, and I would 100% say the brz is direct competition with the fr-s, seeing how the salesman spent the entire time badmouthing the fr-s lol Talking about how it handles like crap and it doesn't feel right the entire time it's driven haha

It was a lot smaller than I thought in person compared to pics. The Z is fine for me but I'm certain my head would hit the brz roof and I'd be quite uncomfortable in it. The rear seats are a joke, obviously. Also, some of the exterior styling is quite ugly and really cheapens the look of the car (like the sharp angled front signal lights, fender vents, or the yellow turn signal right above the front wheel well). Feels like they copied from one too many other cars and mashed them all up (the rx-8, bmws, our Zs).

However.. for the price, especially if I was still in high school and my tastes were a bit less refined.. I would probably be in love with the brz. Anyway, my friend ended up leaving Subaru with the intention of buying an sti instead :tup:

The sales guys were classic though. It seems the Subarus around here are trying to create the illusion the brz is super exclusive and rare, so we were told right away they only had 3 brzs on the lot but they were all sold already, so we could look at them from outside, but not inside. Also, if we ordered one that day, we probably wouldn't even get it until JANUARY.. it's that sought after. The best part was when I asked when they'd have one for test drive the guy goes "TEST DRIVE?!? HAH! THERE ARE NO TEST DRIVES! We can't even keep 1 unsold, let alone have one for demo!" I was like "umm so everyone that buys the brz just walks in and pays for it without driving it first?" and he goes, "yeah.. because people that really KNOW cars.. people that buy the brz.. they know. They just know. No one needs a test drive. If you really want a test drive, you can get one at Scion.. they'll have tonnes of fr-s around for test drive. Just know the experience will be inferior to the brz." at which point another salesman leans over and says, "It's true.. people don't request test drives for the brz since everywhere you look the car is just being raved over and it's known fact at this point the ride is just perfect." :roflpuke2:
this is actually true. They are sold before hitting the lot. People are lined up to buy this car.

NYBladeZ 07-02-2012 12:19 PM
I think the pros for the FR-S/BRZ outweigh the cons and when compared from a tuner's aspect the FR-S is the way to go. Need I remind the long time Z guys that we had to wait a very very very very long time for the Z after market to grow. Even now the aftermarket for the z34 is no where near as big as it was for the z33 and other previous Z cars and its been 3.5 years. Greddy already has a reputable TT kit out and the car hasn't been on US soil for a 6 months. The FR-S has is a tuner's wet dream, cheap starting platform (after the dealers stop pushing ridiculous ADM's) and massive competition amongst aftermarket vendors. The FR-S aftermarket is going to dwarf the Z very quickly, social media is already full of pics and concepts that major aftermarket companies are making.

Performance wise, sure the Z will dominate for now but think about how expensive it is to really build the Z34, you're looking at close to 3/4 the cost of the car for a well built and tuned TT kit, an S/C kit will run you at least 10g's. Moreover, while dyno #'s are nice making 500whp+ is useless on a road course, to date I don't think I've seen any TT member even attempt to run it all out at a road course. So you have potentially extreme HP #'s that are good for the drag strip which is not the Z's forte but create a largely uncontrollable monster at the track.

I think the biggest issue with the FR-S is that it comes off as too young but I could probably get around that knowing that the aftermarket for the FR-S is huge. Moreover, call it a gut feeling but given the proper driver a FR-S properly tuned and turboed is going to embarrass a lot of Z guys at the track.

gy954 07-02-2012 12:42 PM
Geez
 
Amazing that people post stuff that is flat wrong, especially when the automotive press has covered these cars so extensively.

The two cars are almost identical, sheet-metal aside. (Suspensions--and hence handling characteristics--differ.) Every review I've read says the cars are woefully underpowered, but otherwise show promise, e.g., with tuner work on the existing engine or an altogether different power-plant.

Fabio88 07-02-2012 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 1801437)
Those are poor people that failed in life. Keep the Z. :tup:
exactly I would rather drive a prius. whats funny is i think a prius is faster then the frs and is way higher quality lol im not joking...

RyanWest 07-02-2012 12:49 PM
Look at the compression ratio on the FR-S, it wont handle boost well.

shadoquad 07-02-2012 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeryansta (Post 1802085)
this is actually true. They are sold before hitting the lot. People are lined up to buy this car.
Which is why patience is a virtue. Hot cars like this are only this hot when they first hit showrooms. Dealers can move them for MSRP, so they'll try. If you're desperate enough, they may even attempt to shove markup down your throat.

Such is the BRZ Limited. order one for your push-button start, alcantara interior, and rear spoiler, and be prepared to pay through the nose and buy without test drive.

I would never buy a car like this. I have to test drive the exact car I'm looking for. If nothing else, I'll drive it the day of delivery without a penny spent, or they can kiss my sale goodbye.

mpusch 07-02-2012 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabio88 (Post 1802165)
exactly I would rather drive a prius. whats funny is i think a prius is faster then the frs and is way higher quality lol im not joking...
0-60 for a Prius is around 10 seconds. The BRZ does it a tad over 7. Even though you said you weren't joking, I'm assuming you are :icon17:

FWIW, I've seen a both the BRZ and FR-S in flesh now. I thought they looked great for what they are. One guy was on the highway doing some "pulls" and seemed to be accelerating fairly quickly, nothing that impressive though.

kenchan 07-02-2012 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpusch (Post 1802241)
0-60 for a Prius is around 10 seconds. The BRZ does it a tad over 7.
aka slow for a sporty family car in 2012.

shadoquad 07-02-2012 01:09 PM
While the FRS isn't exactly fast or grunt-y compared to the Z, it does wake up quite a bit after 5000 rpm.

mpusch 07-02-2012 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 1802247)
aka slow for a sporty family car in 2012.
Well yeah, I'll agree with that, but it isn't Prius slow.

kenchan 07-02-2012 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadoquad (Post 1802249)
While the FRS isn't exactly fast or grunt-y compared to the Z, it does wake up quite a bit after 5000 rpm.
vtec kicking in

kenchan 07-02-2012 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpusch (Post 1802257)
Well yeah, I'll agree with that, but it isn't Prius slow.
true. i think it's a livable quickness. i need to test drive one to really understand what the hype is. im all for small/light weight cars. i might like it. :tup:

shadoquad 07-02-2012 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 1802263)
true. i think it's a livable quickness. i need to test drive one to really understand what the hype is. im all for small/light weight cars. i might like it. :tup:
I agree, you should get out and test just to see what it's all about. It's a fun little car.

speedfreek 07-02-2012 01:19 PM
It's probably going to win the 24 hrs of Le Mans next year in all likelihood

Cmike2780 07-02-2012 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBladeZ (Post 1802087)
I think the pros for the FR-S/BRZ outweigh the cons and when compared from a tuner's aspect the FR-S is the way to go. Need I remind the long time Z guys that we had to wait a very very very very long time for the Z after market to grow. Even now the aftermarket for the z34 is no where near as big as it was for the z33 and other previous Z cars and its been 3.5 years. Greddy already has a reputable TT kit out and the car hasn't been on US soil for a 6 months. The FR-S has is a tuner's wet dream, cheap starting platform (after the dealers stop pushing ridiculous ADM's) and massive competition amongst aftermarket vendors. The FR-S aftermarket is going to dwarf the Z very quickly, social media is already full of pics and concepts that major aftermarket companies are making.

Performance wise, sure the Z will dominate for now but think about how expensive it is to really build the Z34, you're looking at close to 3/4 the cost of the car for a well built and tuned TT kit, an S/C kit will run you at least 10g's. Moreover, while dyno #'s are nice making 500whp+ is useless on a road course, to date I don't think I've seen any TT member even attempt to run it all out at a road course. So you have potentially extreme HP #'s that are good for the drag strip which is not the Z's forte but create a largely uncontrollable monster at the track.

I think the biggest issue with the FR-S is that it comes off as too young but I could probably get around that knowing that the aftermarket for the FR-S is huge. Moreover, call it a gut feeling but given the proper driver a FR-S properly tuned and turboed is going to embarrass a lot of Z guys at the track.
I think it's a cool car, but I doubt a few bolt-ons is going to make this exceptionally fast, even on a track to 'embarass' Z drivers. You can stuff anything under the hood of this thing and claim it to a beast, but you can do that to pretty much any car if you have the cash. Heck, they already stuffed the LF-A engine under there...

....and to be fair, we haven't seen any turbo'd FR-S on the streets, let alone on the track to really know how it handles FI. You don't see too many TT'd 370z's around a track because for the most part, a few bolt on's and reducing weight is all you really need. There's even a few racing teams on here that follow that concept. I really like the FR-S/BRZ, I just think there's just too much hype about this car. I see too many similarities with the RX-8 (another car that could have used FI).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanWest (Post 1802189)
Look at the compression ratio on the FR-S, it wont handle boost well.
That's what I was thinking.

kenchan 07-02-2012 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadoquad (Post 1802269)
I agree, you should get out and test just to see what it's all about. It's a fun little car.
i definitely will... once the dealer has some in the lot and things settle down. :tup:

Mt Tam I am 07-02-2012 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek (Post 1802275)
It's probably going to win the 24 hrs of Le Mans next year in all likelihood

That's Mazda territory. I hope they do.

kenchan 07-02-2012 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mt Tam I am (Post 1802302)
That's Mazda territory. I hope they do.
why is mazda still in business even after 5yrs of ugly faces?

Fabio88 07-02-2012 01:35 PM
lol whats really funny is almost 2010+ family sedans go 0-60 in 7 secs. like the ford taurs that TT goes less then 7 secs

Pauly 07-02-2012 01:35 PM
people keep saying "great car if you're on a budget" 25k aint no budget. almost the price of my car, which is way better. i dont get how im the only one who thinks this car is overpriced. o well who cares. im not buying one.

shadoquad 07-02-2012 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly (Post 1802316)
people keep saying "great car if you're on a budget" 25k aint no budget. almost the price of my car, which is way better. i dont get how im the only one who thinks this car is overpriced. o well who cares. im not buying one.
Yeah, I don't think the car is worth the money, either, but it's not bad.

kenchan 07-02-2012 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabio88 (Post 1802314)
lol whats really funny is almost 2010+ family sedans go 0-60 in 7 secs. like the ford taurs that TT goes less then 7 secs
my point exactly! why have a sporty looking car that gets eaten up by a family sedan... :facepalm:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly (Post 1802316)
people keep saying "great car if you're on a budget" 25k aint no budget. almost the price of my car, which is way better. i dont get how im the only one who thinks this car is overpriced. o well who cares. im not buying one.
25k is a budget considering a 30k 370Z can only carry 2 people and not very practical in any way. with 25K you can do your racing and shopping...sort of.

Cmike2780 07-02-2012 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 1802306)
why is mazda still in business even after 5yrs of ugly faces?
I kinda like this little guy.
http://cdn4.digitaltrends.com/wp-con...picture-1.jpeg

Pauly 07-02-2012 01:40 PM
lol my maxima would make that scion thing look like a honda fit LOL
family cars rule

kenchan 07-02-2012 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmike2780 (Post 1802328)
the green one looks pretty good...but they look like crap in stock form. i was referring to their 2's and 3's and 5's and the other ones they have. so buttugly.

their new CX5 looks normal at least... but it looked like a hyundai in person.

b1adesofcha0s 07-02-2012 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly (Post 1802316)
people keep saying "great car if you're on a budget" 25k aint no budget. almost the price of my car, which is way better. i dont get how im the only one who thinks this car is overpriced. o well who cares. im not buying one.
Same here. Got my Z slightly used for $26k.

shadoquad 07-02-2012 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmike2780 (Post 1802328)
I am a huge fan of Miatas.

Mazda understands that you don't have to have the most powerful or best handling machine on the road to create a really fun vehicle.

JohnsZ 07-02-2012 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenchan (Post 1802306)
why is mazda still in business even after 5yrs of ugly faces?
Hey Ken....I traded in my 2012 MazdaSpeed3 just after 3 months for my '09 370Z and have never looked back!

Pauly 07-02-2012 01:44 PM
i dont see how the back seat existance can be used as a practicality excuse for a price hike either. most of my family / friends would rather be punched in the groin than forced to be confined in that entrapment, even for a short trip


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