2012 370Z Oil Temp (and the rest of my "new owner" quirky things I notice)
 

I am still following Nissan's 1200 mile <4,000rpm schedule. However, I have made observations.

The coolant light bar is always lit just 1 dot shy of having the middle dot illuminated.

The oil temp has reached a maximum temperature of 210*F in traffic (15 minutes in stop to 45mph traffic, after being heat-soaked and parked for 5 minutes prior to joining traffic).

After reaching temperature on the freeway in 60-65*F weather, the oil temperature will remain at 195-205*F. This includes sustained driving at 80-85 in 6th, easy roll-ons in 5th from 60-80 and then coasting back down again, as well as similar behavior when traffic was not present in lower gears. (I do this while breaking a car in to hit both faces of the gear teeth in the transmission and differential, as well as provide vacuum that will pull the rings against the cylinder walls in the engine.)

In the 400 miles I have had my 370Z, I have noted a marked reduction in drive-line noise using this break-in technique. Most of what you are doing is bedding brakes and polishing gear-faces, not "breaking the engine in". It's just easier to tell people not to get over "X rpm" and "don't take off hard or stop hard" than it is to explain the nuances of properly mating precision parts with designed tolerances at the 8th grade level that product manuals must be written at.

Break it in easy if you plan on driving it easy all the time. Break it in rough if you want to drive it rough. ;)

...and what do you base that on?

Please explain why you think this makes any sense.

When you get dozens (hundreds?) of moving parts that mesh together (modern car's drive-line), they have high and low spots on them. When you gently polish those parts down, the contact area increases greatly. They can then withstand greater shock, etc. because the contact patches are larger and the forces are transmitted more proportionately across the entire contact patch.

"Breaking it in rough" only means that you beat the **** out of it and those high/low spots may impact/mesh harder causing more deformity and material loss than is necessary, leading to a louder driveline, and other things that one doesn't necessarily find optimal.

Blogs written by some idiot a few years back have led to people doing this, but I owned a car that had a crate motor broken in by some old-school mechanic that thought like that. It used 1 quart of oil every 1200 miles (15-40, at that!).

Instead of this, why not look at how high-end cars are broken in at the factory, and how expensive engines for large machines are broken in. There is a definite "method" used, and it's not "be rough with it". Nissan included this break-in proceedure for a reason, and it's not to gain 1200 miles of "easy" driving so as to cut down on part replacement costs. It's so that they get less complaints about NVH, oil consumption, etc. during the next 2.9/34.8.

I"m at 540 miles and I am just giving up this under 4k thing. If the car needs some work later on because of it, so be it. I like to go fast too much to keep it under 4 :/

I will say I have no clue what that other poster is saying lol. Maybe he just means "if you wanna play rough just do it"

Just don't launch the car, shift excessively hard, and you should be okay. After 2-300 miles, the driveline is the main component still breaking in. I am not sure about these VQ engine's valve-trains, though.

I think starting at 800 miles, increase your "redline" from 4 to 7.5K progressively as you get to 1200. 4k to 7.5k in 1 mile's difference makes no sense and is likely harder on things than a gradual ramp up.

Rods stretch ever so slightly, so lets stretch them a bit at a time, for the sake of the rings/cylinders/rest of the system involved. Same with the shafts in the transmission.

For the ambient temps outside... you seem to be running like a non-oil cooler Z. Let's see what happens when it gets to over 85 degrees.

Those temps are dead-on what my Z06 ran in identical circumstances, with similar oem liquid cool setup.

Aftermarket z06's ran 150-160*F in similar ambient with plate coolers.

I mistakenly assumed that the procedure created a heat cycling effect, but others (probably you being one :D ) pointed out that it is more about creating vacuum to improve ring sealing. Do you also allow for coast down?

I've followed this procedure (i.e., what is described by Nissan, other car manufacturers, and two engine builders whom I trust very much) for two different engines, and notwithstanding my flawed reasoning regarding the specific effects, it absolutely resulted in smooth running, non-oil burning, high power making motors.

Thanks for posting the detailed explanation of why the procedure works and glad to hear she is breaking in nicely :tup:

I suspect the oil burning and the unusually high temps some folks see in normal driving are the result of poor break in.

:iagree: over 85 degrees and driving it over 4000 rpm's...

Oh, I don't disagree with you. But, it makes you wonder what exactly is the "proper" break-in procedure. I'm pretty sure the manual states not to cruise at a single RPM point for long periods of time during break-in, but why or why not? If you're supposed to take it easy.... That tells me, that city driving will break in better then cruising on the highway. But, why, again? I'd rather break something in over its entire operating range and not just a single window of range. Why break a motor in by limiting revs to 4k rpm when its actual redline is 7.5k? I can understand not launching the car or going WOT to 7.5k, or shifting hard, etc., but what I don't understand are these makeshift break-in limiters.

Those sound like pretty good oil temps. After your break in and when summer hits i'm curious to see what temps you get with spirited driving

It may, or may not be a result of poor break-in proceedure. Breaking a car in properly just helps.

Yes, heat-cycling is a good thing. Don't just go on one 1200 mile trip.

However--this said--the Corvette Museum has people fly in from all over the US to DRIVE their cars home. They just recommend that they vary the rpms, take some back roads, row through the gears, and stop a bit to have lunch and then stop to see the sights, maybe. It is an exact science, but manufacturers know that most people are not exact scientist, and they planned for it as best as possible.

Regardless, that is how I break my cars in. My Z06 burned 1/2 quart in the first 500 miles, and not a drop afterward.

As to "allow for coast-down", I'm not following?

Because everything stretches in an engine. If you cruise at ONE rpm, you will wear the cylinder walls to ONE depth only on the piston stroke, etc.

City driving is best, you are MAINLY breaking in the driveline, and rowing through the gears placing torque on the gear-faces (and backs of them, as you coast to a stop using the engine), lapping them in.

The reason you don't want to break the engine in at 7K rpm is because you are ALSO breaking in the bearings, and load-bearing surfaces of the engine. Not just rings/pistons. Nissan knows WAY more about their VQ than I do. However, engine harmonics caused by high rpm, extra stress on the crank, etc. could adversely affect the bearings and perhaps the unique VQ valvetrain in a negative way. If it were just cylinders and rings, then maybe your way would be the best way.

THE BEST way to break in a car is running the engine on a dyno under load.
Then you put it in the car and proceed to break in the transmission, rear-end, and brakes.

Unfortunately, this is only done on certain high-end cars. SO we are stuck breaking in the engine and driveline at the same time, both of which prefer slightly different behavior, and the brakes, which to bed, require entirely DIFFERENT behavior.

GM's manual on the ceramic brakes is especially confusing.

They state that rpm should be kept under 3K for 500 miles and no faster than 55mph (this is from memory when I owned my Z06, but yet that the brakes should be broken in soon and that you should do this by accelerating as fast as possible to 60, braking hard to impending lock-up, and wash-rinse repeat.

Not exactly an under 3K and "no hard shifting" and keep it at 55 or less proposition.

Alas, we are stuck with a system, and each owner works out in their own mind what they think is the best compromise.


http://www.aera.org/downloads/BIP.pdf
http://www.stockcarracing.com/techar...n/viewall.html

Same here.

Yep. Nissan engineers that designed the break in recommendations know far more about their engine's inner workings than we do. That said they are far more qualified to make break in recommendations and I trust their recommendations more than any theory crafting.

I'm getting a 'brand new z' with 100 miles on it. I'm kinda worried about what kind of abuse it received in that first 100 miles though

Nothing you can do about it, just finish out the other 1100. Remember, this car is meant for people, and I know an awful lot of people who do dumb crap. I'm sure Nissan does, too. There is certainly some leeway for improper procedure within limits.

I am at 700 miles of my break in and it's misery. It can reach 100+ at 4K rpm in 6th though, lol.

I say follow the break in procedure ... I had an '03 Evo VIII I broke in properly and it burned very little oil. I had an '05 Evo VIII where I did not follow proper break in and I had to add oil weekly.

I'm actually glad you brought up an evo. I bought a brand new Evo X back in '08 that had 8 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. What was the first thing I did? A WOT pull from 2nd gear up to 4th gear. This is quite literally as soon as I passed the vicinity of the dealership. Why did I do this? I wanted to break the piston rings in the hard way. I didnt launch the car until 16,000 miles, but I shifted hard and boosted every single mile before that. It didn't burn one lick of oil and I owned the car until 28k miles. It hit 27psi on the stock turbo almost every single day and I never had a single problem with that car. It sounded smooth as butter and it actually shifted a ton better then my friend's Evo X's.


To add to this topic, I called the dealer I bought my Z from last week. I wanted to schedule an oil change as my break-in miles are almost complete and also to verify that when I do bring the Z in, they will always use the specific Z oil. The service manager confirmed that they are using the correct oil and then began to give me a whole lecture how breaking in a brand new car doesn't really exist like it used to. He actually told me, "yea the manual says 1200 break-in miles, but that's not really it. They just don't want anyone "breaking" the car before they learn to drive it." So, yea... :stirthepot: He then politely told me not to schedule an early oil change.

I broke in the car under 4k for 1,400miles and now at 3k with Synthetic Mobil 1 and everything seems to be working very well and very powerful.

I bought my car used so I'm not exactly sure how it was broke in. I did but my motorcycle new,2002 R6, and drove it normal. The main thing I did was give it oil changes at 500, 1000, 1500. During those 1,500 mi I never kept it at redline for any extended periods.

It ran like a champ... until it was stolen (55,000mi).

I found this link that seems to corroborate what you're saying to some extent. Granted, it's focused primarily on motorcycle engines, but I have to imagine there's some crossover for this approach. Link below.

New Engine Break-in Procedure

S.

Your car, your business.

Had a crate motor that was broken in your way, and used tons of oil. Broke my 'vette in my way, and never used a drop past the break-in period.

As to "leaning to drive the car", that sounds good, until you consider that they don't advise heavy towing with trucks for a certain time, etc. etc. Your service manager would also make a great bartender.

Why don't they just run the motors before putting them in if this is the case?

IIRC All motors are run to redline prior to leaving the factory regardless of auto maker...

The one in my Z06 was not, unless someone loading it onto the car got a hardon and did it. I cannot speak for other cars, as I did not watch them being produced like I did my Z06. I further spoke to one of the LS7 engine-builders who said the engines were run on CNG at 2,000rpm for 2 minutes or so, after being built. Nothing near redline. Just an engine-dyno to assure that it would make the 505bhp, calculated by extrapolating the dyno curve from 2K.

The highest it was run to was about 4400rpm (4K rpm I think is the max, anything above something like 45-4800 or 80mph gets a phone-call from GM corporate, as that machine is wired into them and monitored) on the dynamic alignment machine as they checked my car's alignment.

Time and money. The 370Z is not that expensive to justify the extra cost in their esteem. The brakes in the GT-R are bedded by the factory though, as I understand it. Maybe they also do a bit for the engine/transmission?

Also would like to add...

rocks in the fender wells are INSANELY LOUD! I don't care, but just noticed it. Wow. It's not meant for gravel, so it's a moot point.

My fuel-gauge last dot faithfully lights up, and stays lit until one would expect it to go out as fuel is burned.

i agree with importconvert, when i first got my Z i followed break in procedure to the tee. During the first1200 miles only used 1/4 of a quart of oil and at 3,000 had the oil changed out, havent burned a drop of oil since and the drivetrain is nice and quiet with just a faint humm when the clutch is released in neutral. Of course it also helped that in my first 1200 miles alot of my driving was a mix of city and highway driving.

I don't doubt you. It's just not the optimal plan, and had you gotten it with 0 miles, or close to it, maybe not the plan you would have followed. I doubt your car is a dog or anything because of it, though. However, who knows if it might have run 0.5mph faster had things been different? We will never know.

I would be interested in someone with more money and time on their hands bore-scoping 2 modern car's cylinder sleeves (370Z even better) and then comparing them, then breaking them in differently and re-scoping.

THAT would be eye-opening.

I'm confused. The title of this thread says oil temp but it reads more like yet another break-in procedure thread. :confused:

People took it where they wanted it to go, but it contains all the oil-temp observations that I made, too.

http://www.the370z.com/members/edub3...e-chan-wtf.png


Why spend $35k on a car just to abuse it out of the box?

^ Agree with edub. People are free to do what ever they want to do though.

i now have 3500 miles on it i got it in may with 358 on it an 09. i have ran it to redline serval times. i think people look into the "breakin period too much" imo

Some do, some don't. I think there is a happy medium. There is always a safety margin built in for things like this.

That said, I plan to slowly start working my way toward redline at about 8-900 miles, and achieve redline by 1200. I don't believe in "okay, under 4K rpm...wait...wait...2 more miles...WOT!!!" That's just ridiculous and makes no sense, mechanically.

I've got 4k miles on mine and I'm putting a GTM Supercharger on it so we will see how broke in it is.:tup:

Broke mine in per the owner's manual. I check my oil at almost every fill up. 8 months later and 9,200 miles on the odometer, hasn't burned a drop of oil.

:tup:

Same here. Funny how the folks that built the motor seem to know how to operate it, eh?

I always laugh when people think they can tell anything substantive about break in procedures 9000 street miles into a cars life.

agree. most probably won't own the car long enough to deal with the side effects.

but then look at all those posts about oil temp, people are way too sensitive