not buy one...

Exactly... lol

the STI monicker isn't being used for the BRZ, it was used for the STI BRZ CONCEPT (the blue one with the wing, more aggresive body kit, wheels, etc). The concept was supposed to draw attention to what could be, not necessarily what will be. So in that regard I don't think Subaru is doing anything wrong.

When you say "dsport says", car guys read "some guy pulled out of his a$$"

In this case it doesn't really matter. Its a preliminary review of a car that's not out yet and its a vague source of info that does give some kind of useful info. What mattered to me is that they had knowledge of subie having builtn the turbo engine for this car and a mild possibility of one coming out in the future. That's all I care about. Not so much anything else. So I still don't get your point? D sport sucks. We know. But if I'm in the supermarket and a FR_S is on the cover. I'm going to open it and read what they claim to know. Just cuz.

Oh. Well that's good. :tup:

Keep the discussion on TOPIC!!

This has been cleaned and If I have to comeback to clean it again?

I'll be giving out infractions you guys decide

Carry on :ugh2:

I just found we are lucky enough to have NISSAN continue making a V6 sports car while most of the Japanese had taken theirs off from the North American market ie Supra, RX-7, S2000.....

The BRZ is a good idea about having an extra choice, I believe its handling will compensate for it's low power output, since it has a good power-to-weight ratio.

We need more choices for sports cars from Japan, however, it is also the weakest segment in the consumer market.

I'd personally take a BRZ if it was Subaru symmetrical all wheel drive, 4 cylinder turbo'd then yes... basically an impreza wrx sti coupe...but as it sits now, its not in the same class nor intended to be in the same class as the 370Z. Just Subaru trying to gauge the sports car market.

Can I have some fries with those McStruts? :tiphat:

BRZ and FT86 are "Sporty Spice" of cars. Its not a serious sports car. At least "budget" Miata has double wishbone suspension! Spicy sport BRZ isn't even close to same league as 370 Z GT car.

Toyota as usual comes up way short on suspension. And they have stuck to under powered over priced formula. It's only redeeming quality is rear drive.

^ i agree with this

thats why i made my earlier post, being on struts is not ideal

:iagree: 2700 lbs curb weight and 270hp is a nice package. And when gasoline hits $5-$6 gal it's gonna be a sweet spot.

Yeah, struts suck. :facepalm:

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...477-107776.jpg

:icon18: 2012 Porsche 911 S :icon18:

Yeah they do! Lots of issues for us Porsche guys over coming limitations of strut based suspensions. Camber limitations and scrub radius issues. And Porsche has invested substantially more into multi link struts they use. ...Toyota not so much. Are you really comparing toyota sporty spice McStruts to new 997 or 991 multi link suspension? Lol!

Take a look. It's econo car basic McStruts with pressed steel suspension arms. At least Miata uses all aluminum. This spicy sport is an econo car dressed up to be a sports car. No more no less. It won't take well to higher hp levels for true enthusiasts. I'm sure clueless tuner crowd will love it

Take a look at sites showing the Toy car. It's a joke.

http://www.tune86.com/sites/default/...ow_2011_16.jpg

2 completely different cars IMO and will be priced differently

yeah porsche still has struts....and it would be better with wishbones :)

I will only trade my Z for this bad a** BRZ...

SUBARU BRZ GT300 - YouTube

cause your going to drive a GT300 race car to work right?

and guess what, the GT300 BRZ does NOT have struts LOL

The 370Z is pure sex! It is hot, loud, and rough!

:wtf2:

Will the 270hp BRZ still weight at 2700lb? With higher horsepower, weight from the add-on such as turbo, bigger brakes, bigger wheels, chassis reinforcement and here and there.... It will NOT add 600lbs, but it will add some weight for sure, also, turbo wont deliver its true power until it kicks-in.

By the time the 270hp BRZ hit the road, there might be a 400z running around the street.



:tup:

Maybe if you tell all the guys in evos how bad macpherson struts are, they will stop beating you.



I imagine the suspension borrows heavily from the Subaru BOK surrounding struts....I have high expectations.

:shakes head: Are we really going to start comparing Toyota to Porsche? Seriously, the things some people expect from a budget sports car is ridiculous.

Yes we 300hp, 3000 or less pounds, and supercar styling at an affordable 25k.


Oh! A huge aftermarket!

:iagree:

:iagree: :iagree:


Go to China, they might be able to make a knock-off on it and call it Porschota


:bowrofl:


p.s. no racist here, I am a Chinese, LOL

The BRZ is a nice lookin ride. The FRS even nicer. The japanese FT-86 will most likely be the sexiest one of the bunch. All I know is... if subaru or scion makes a TT??? Those 270hp can turn into about 420hp with a lil less than $3k on a 27-2800lb chassis???? I'M FLOORED! That's hot. That's how JDM culture flourished here in its roots.
They were low hp cars with an incredible amount of balance and supercar-like handling. Toyota and subaru are going back to the basics. I love it. They created nostalgia to their Brand... if you were a kid in 1982? You can remember when the first hatchback new style celicas and supras hit the street. They looked so hot. They were different compared to the streets flooded with Regals Monte's and seville's. Everyone was tripping at the new transam and camaro Fbody. And toyota was putting out these low horse hatches that easily outhandled the muscle. They snuck in through the back door. So did mitsubishi with the conquest/starion. While america was just learning how to build an aerodynamically correct car. Like the 1970-1980's Z cars. Japan went ahead and introduced another new affordable way of modification. ECU tuned power and turbocharging which was cheaper than dirt back then... try turbocharging now. It costs as much as a Z to do it right. :( capitolism at its best.

Toyota f***ed up when they made the celica FWD and cancelled the supra, then MR2. As did honda when they cancelled the prelude 4ws, NSX and S2k. Or mitsu with the eclipse and EVO. THE ECLIPSE JUST NEEDED TO RETUTN TO IT AWD ROOTS! The evo just needed an interior upgrade.
Same with mazda... I hate roadsters and they don't capture what the gen1-3 Rx7's did and the RX8 is a joke on wheels.

As far as the Z goes. As much as I love the Z34 bodystyle and handling. I would love to see the next generation Z to be a 3000lb car or below with a smaller v6 and twin turbos. 3.0 pushing 270hp na and a TT option pushing 400hp. That would be an insane ride. The 80's and 90's were a great time for JDM cars. We need that back in all the brands.

i think the best bang for buck for the BRZ/FRS is NOS. that would be the only way to go to keep it cheap and some WTF moment vs a Z. :icon17:

Anybody here read the Feb '12 issue of DSPORT mag? They did a quick road test of the FR-S in Japan. In the article, it has a note on the bottom of page 50 about future turbocharging. That Subi might offer a BRZ STI model around the '15 my. Also in the mag. GREDDY has done some work on it already.

I thought the aftermarket scene died because people realize how stupid financially it is to dump $20K into a car that is worth $10K (and then to realize someone in a stock Mustang can smoke them).

:icon18:

I think the prices had a lot to do with it too.

The yen to dollar, the profitability of aftermarket parts, etc.

Give Sporty Spice Aluminum multilink strut suspension, AWD, and 400 hp and it might be in the ball game. Lol! Haven't had a Subaru even in ball park against the Z. Beat a 2500 lb 400 hp XP STi on regular basis. And he has done tons of suspension work. He should have my poorly prepared SP car no problem. Haven't had a stock Evo event come close to beating my Z this past season. It's the SP EVOs that have huge HP advantage that beat my car currently. My Z is still making close to stock HP. And national level EVO out on big track is equalized with my car due to poor high speed dynamics brought on by limited strut suspension.

People are fooling themselves if they think this car is anything special. It all spice and where's the beef? Sure with $20k in suspension work you might have something that holds tires where they need to be, can't wait to see all ridiculous TRD suspension braces for the Toyota. The car is a loser. It's too bad as I had higher hopes.

But I would expect a Mustang guy to think any independent suspension is earth shattering.

Lol!

Being one of first guys to develop Totyota Echo in the US I have plenty of experience running light cars with crappy suspensions. They are tons of fun just like this 150 HP 1800 lb Echo race car. http://www.streetfire.net/video/150-...cho_120833.htm. But still BRZ isn't a serious sports car. It's going to be a short term hit for all toyota and Subaru people who haven't driven a nicely balanced rear wheel car.

But sorry the BRZ/ft86 in current state are losers as enthusiast Sports cars. just watch it at SCCA Solo competition, it won't come close to class leading Miatas. they will likely need to drop it to less competive lclass with Scion TC and other sissy low powered FWD cars. It will do well there.

Oh snap, Im outta here before this gets ugly....

Please lets leave the mustangs out of this


http://st2.tecnoblog.net/wp-content/...lm-580x350.jpg

You do realize the new Mustang is faster than the Z around a track right? Solid rear axle and all... ;)

Oh yeah... IBTL. :ugh2:

Hey Masa, rather than using a sketch of your likeness as a profile photo why dont you use a REAL pic???

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...yan/images.jpg

as it should, with 2 more cylinders, 1.3 more litres, and 80 more hp. Compare the z against the v6 mustang which has about the same straight line performance, and the z is faster.

OMG do you have cameras in my house???? Stalker!! :bowrofl:

Sounds like you're still bitter that ProSolo D stock wrx's run tied with C-stock z's in run time with a 40mm tire deficit. I'd be mad too.


And on the mustang front (don't know why you feel that is relevant), how'd b stock nismos run against the f stock grouping this year?



Have you taken the time to call BMW yet? I'm sure they would love to know they've been using an epically poor suspension layout, and I'm honestly surprised no one has told them yet. No wonder their cars don't have any success in racing series.


Realistically, of course there are trade offs, but there's literally no reason to bitch about the layout. Subaru does it well, and I highly doubt the car will be notably held back.