I think my dealer covered up an accident.
 

Hey everyone... it's been a while since I've been on here, but I'm looking for your advice on what to do.

I bought a 2009 370Z "leftover" in September 2010. I had NUMEROUS problems. From September-November 2010, I was back at the dealer at least 10 times for repetitive and different issues. I won't even go into all that, but it was a ridiculous experience. And to be honest, the car has never really been right. Hasn't driven correctly, constant weird and different noises. Just a horrible experience. Before this, I had a G35 Coupe and a G37 Coupe... both fantastic experiences.

So anyway... skipping through all that. Last month, I changed insurance companies and had to have a car inspection done at a body shop. Right away she says "so this car has had body work?" I said, "yeah, over there, how'd you notice?" (There was a dent they could not fix dentless, so they had to do minor work - one of 10 issues). She said "no... this side of the car... looks like the whole side was replaced."

I can't believe I didn't notice but ALL of the labeling in the door jam... stickers, VIN plaque, etc.. all gone. Also, the plastic molding has NEVER fit right since day one. This also goes back to another issue. The driver back speaker kept blowing out. Several times in a row. I kept taking it back to be replaced. They even replaced the back sub and the front pre-amp. None of that fixed it. They would put a new speaker in and it would fry in a day. When telling this story to a buddy, he says, probably if it was hit and wires or wiring harness was hit/cut/etc... that would cause this issue.
At this point... I'm now even wondering about the frame of the car. It's never seemed to drive in balance, even when it is. I eventually just gave up and dealt with it. Thought it was just wheel issues... but thinking it could even be the frame.

The car had 3,000 miles on it. Was sold as NEW to me. I was not informed of any issues, accidents, anything like that.
My question is... how do I proceed? It seems like it was crashed and covered up... which to me, is FRAUD. I figured I'd call the dealer first and give them a shot, before going to Nissan.

Thanks for listening.. I know this is a long post. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Talk to an attorney first.

If I were you I'd talk to a lawyer first and see what they can dig up on how the laws for this work in your jurisdiction. Lemon laws (and other things related to defective products and fraud) can vary by state, but you're likely to be borderline on whether there's any clear law that can protect you now, because it's been such a long time since the sale.

The 3K miles and 10 trips to the dealer in the first few months should have been the big red warning flag, and it would have been easy just about anywhere to reject the car under a local lemon law at that time, and it would have been prudent to have an independent mechanic check it out thoroughly at that time as well. But this late in the game, you may already be outside the time-window of certain automatic protections in your favor, and even if you opt for a plain civilian lawsuit against the dealership you may have a hard time proving that they actually did it (as opposed to their lawyer's possible alternate story: that the car had a few gremlins initially which the dealership worked through with you, and then you had a large wreck later, had it fixed in cash and off the records, and are trying to now blame and defraud *them*).

I certainly wouldn't call the dealership first. If they sold you a wrecked and repaired car as new, you already know they're shady. By going to them first you're just tipping your hand and giving them time to come up with stories, etc.

True, good point there.. about going to the dealer first.
What about talking to Nissan corporate? Also a bad idea? I can't imagine a lawyer being cheap... and why should I have to pay for that?

Paying for an attorney is just how the system works. I'd probably have the body shop that noticed the work give it a full check up and get some hard evidence that panels and parts were replaced which will be another cost. Hate to say it but if you really want to address this issue its going to cost you some $$$, you may be able to get back your attorney costs if you do indeed find wrongdoing on behalf of the dealer.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

I have been down this same path with my first 2006 350z. The car was Keyed and then repainted. The car was sold to me a NEW. I found this when I started to wax the car and it felt all nasty, so I clay barred the car and Bamm the Key marks started showing up on the whole drivers side.

Absolutely.

How does a new car have 3000 miles on it?

Dealer demo car, dealers can use a car to let people test drive it and the miles can add up over the year. Also, dealers can 'use' a car to drive around for personal use without it being registered, but are limited to so many miles before it must be legally registered.

Yeah, apparently the dealership owner's wife was driving it. That's what I was told at least... but who knows.

I would believe that, but they may have left out the: "Owners wife was driving it and......'

Well, yeah... exactly.

Heard about a similar issue with a STR-4 neon back in 2006. Apparently some guy got on the SRT forums warrning people about a particular SRT-4 at a dealership. I guess he was at the dealer when one of the employs, after joyriding in a NEW SRT, pulled in with the front bumper hanging off. Can't remember the details but essentially the dealer did the repairs and still had the car on the showroom floor as new. Luckily the guy reported it on the forums and it got enough attention that eventually the dealer had to ship it off to another dealer out of state. Unfortunately some other poor soul probably ended up with it.

During the discussions on the forum it was said that if a car is damaged while NEW in care of the dealer the damages could be repaired, the car sold as new still, and the issues never had to be disclosed. Apparently this is common practice as minor damage is common when loading and unloading cars off boats/trucks. Not sure if this is 100% accurate info but this was posted by several different people at that time.

Well I could almost understand that. It sounds like the difference between a minor repair that doesn't effect other things versus a major repair that seems to have effected other things on my car.

thats sad! can you run a carfax with your vin to try to get more info?

I hope with 3k miles you got the car at a very discounted price! The local dealer here tried to sell me a car that had 3k miles also. On the phone I was told it was NEW when I got there found out it had 3k miles since it was their demo car... so I said bye bye and left.

Something like that will not show up on carfax, anything that happens at a dealership prior to it being titled will not show up.

$7,000 off. Seemed worth it. But with my experiences over the past year, it was not.

I highly doubt anything would come up on CarFax if the car was never sold. They seem dumb, but not that dumb. I'm sure they had the dude across the street repair it.

what about going and talking to one of the service guys there? just to try and find out more... however from what you have said i doubt that they would provide any info...

You know, to my face... they've always been VERY accommodating. (Maybe now I know why, ha).

I'm almost thinking of going and talking to the one manager I dealt with. I know someone mentioned about giving them a "head start"... but on what really? Either they are going to deny it or not. There's no "story" they could really come up with. Either they have a story of what happened (guilt) or they would deny it and have no clue.
If anything.. it'd give them a chance to handle it privately before Nissan and/or lawyers hearing about it.

I know most of you seem to be against talking to them... but I don't see how it could put me in a worse position than I am now.

from working at a body shop about 3 years ago, i can tell you first hand this happens more than you would think. there was a dodge dealer that brought us a "new" truck less than 15 miles on it and it needed a bed side replaced and cab corner fixed. we fixed it, and they sold it as a new vehicle even though it was more than 25% of the value of the vehicle in damage...

don't just walk in and buy your vehicle, check it out, then double check it. dealers are crooks. all of them, yes even the ones you think are good.



edit: things to look for:
overspray
tape edges
uneven slickness between body panels (orange peel or lack there of)
rubbing/buffing compound
uneven edges or poor fitment of body panels
aftermarket parts
paint not matching, albeit no plastic parts ever match the unibody from the factory

Just be smart about it

it's not just fraud to you, it's just plain fraud

if they're really crooked they might try to pass the blame off on you saying you did the damage. That's what I would be paranoid about.

Well, yeah. If they are going to say they didn't do it, then that would be obvious. But if they're going to say it, they're going to say it either way.

Honestly... I think they'd be more likely to admit to me and take care of it with me, compared to them admitting fraud to Nissan, which would be a much bigger deal. Or something going to court. I feel like going to them, would give me more of a chance or an extra chance. Usually you go to the source first, then go from there. Almost like "chain of command".. I don't know...

Ask for the car to be lemoned based on the findings at the bodyshop. Or trade in for a new or used car.

I'm alittle surprised you did not catch all of this during the delivery. Dealers will often times do repairs before delivery and consider it new. This is why I don't ever take delivery of the car until I do a test drive of the exact car I am buying and careful check.

You expected a new car and that is what they should have sold you. There is nothing wrong with getting what you paid for. Would you have bought it if you knew there was damage. They should have told you what the deal was upfront for better or worse. Heck, I'd make them pay for all lawyer fees too.

On the flip side... Maybe they could up your warranty to 100k bumper to bumper if you are good with the car.

Personally, I'd talk to the lawyer. I also like to talk a big game on the Interwebs.

Thanks, guys. I mentioned on Twitter and Nissan has been in touch with me. I'll go down that route, first.

First, you need to get a thorough inspection on your car. Based on the findings you need to decide what to do, because if there is frame damage don't even bother going to the dealership. Get a lawyer.

Good point. I keep forgetting about the frame part.

While it was repaired (typical since things can happen during transit) it was new and the work is warranted probably for the life of the vehicle to the original buyer. He also got a super discount. While I don't agree with their practice i dont think they did anything wrong. I think the buyer needs to be more diligent and lemoned the car long time ago. :) like I said get the estimate and details of the damage. That may be your ticket out.

REALLY?

You think I need to check out a NEW car more? I mean, it was NEW. It had small issues I knew of, that they took care of... but more that arose... and then more leading to this. It's just not acceptable.

It was sold as NEW - LEFTOVER. That does not mean major damage is acceptable. (without being informed of it).

I did get a lot off.. and for good reason. It was a 2009 ... 2011s were on their way in a few months, and had miles, etc. But not worth this other damage and not worth it never really being up to par. There are many many more details that I'm not really going into.

Why not list out the things you think are wrong with the car? It could be a lot of things that could have caused all the problems.

In Georgia (I don't know about other states)a dealer can do $500 or under in repairs to a new car and by law they don't have to tell the customer.

Just cause the side was repainted it doesn't mean it was replaced some A'hole could have walked thru the parking lot and keyed the whole side.

Dealer's that have body shops usually give the new car salesman the est. and lets say it is $825 the new car manager knows that he will have to tell the cust. so the body shop discounts the price on paper to meet the $500 threshold.

Just a thought:tiphat:

Like it has been recommended, Get a lawyer this way they'll think twice on trying to screw someone else, But they are what they are bottom feeders.

There was no VIN number on the panels. That means they are not the original panels and would have cost way more than $500 to buy new panels and repaint.

I know I do body work for a living,I still don't think they replaced the whole side that would have been a $5000-$9000 repair a car with that much damage would be easy to detect with minimal looking.

post the name of dealership here to help future buyers

better yet, do what Ben did:

http://www.the370z.com/parts-sale-pr...ml#post1401103

Review: Dishonorable experience at Gwinnett Place Certified GTR Dealer, Duluth GA - NAGTROC - The Nissan GT-R Owners Club

it's a long story, but worth the reading. A win for pissed off consumers everywhere

Not really,there are some good body shops.

I work in one of the best shops in Atlanta I don't care how good you are the average person looking in the right places will see a lot.:tiphat:

i dont know how the laws are there, but from what i was told by the body shop that repaired my old cobalt after an old lady backed into the driver side door, they are required by law to take the original VIN sticker off the door if it has been replaced and put a new sticker on the door. Keep in mind that the replacement sticker looks nothing like the original VIN sticker that it replaces and is not in the same place alot of the time either.

I have been working in the body industry for 25 years and have never seen such a sticker.

When we replace a pillar that has vehicle info on it we cut the metal that has the Vin. on it clean up the edges and put the metal plate in the glove box so all information like paint codes,interior trim codes are still with the car.