370z vs. snow
 

Hey all,

I'm looking at transitioning into a new car now that I'm about to start a real job out of college. Right now I drive a sub-500 hp 2007 Civic SI, which is fun and all, but I'm sick of the FWD limitations and the overall cheapness of it.

I live in MN, so my first thought was to pick up an EvoX. I've always loved those cars, loved the AWD, etc. I'm still contemplating that one..

On the other hand, the 370z has been just about my most favorite car since it came out a few years ago. Love the styling, the exhaust note, the overall package is just fantastic. Also, I have a nissan dealership 5 miles from my house, and the closest mitsu dealer is about 75 miles.

My only real concern is winter driving. If I get a 370z, it will more than likely be the nismo variant (I believe I read they did away with the manual trans if you don't get a nismo model? Is that true??). 40k on a car is about my upper limit with what I'll be making at my new job, so buying a second winter beater is out of the question.

So, ultimately, is RWD as horrendous as I've heard in the snow? Everyone I know keeps telling me to avoid RWD like the plague.. yet I find myself having more traction issues than anyone in the snow in my FWD civic.

Thanks

If i were you and could afford it, I would keep the civic as a winter beater and save the Z for months w/o snow/ice all over the roads. Traction in the snow won't be any different with the Z, the difference will be that instead of your front wheels spinning, it will be the rear wheels. Also, as far as I know that thing about manuals only being available on the NISMO is a lie. If all your dealer has are autos, tell him your only interested in a manual. If they want the sale they will get the car you want. And if you want a NISMO, why not get one that is a year or two old? It would be a little cheaper and maybe you could hang on to the civic?

I think with good snow tires and some weight in the back, it might be OK. Remember at one time all cars were rear wheel drive and they managed to get around. The biggest limitation will be ground clearance.

I've been looking for a used NISMO, there are _none_ around here. I've been looking into having one shipped, but the idea of flying out to see a car and then paying to ship it back and yada yada doesn't appeal much to me.

And I haven't actually gone to the dealership yet. I'm only 22, so I won't be taken seriously unless I walk in ready to buy. I only read about Nissan not offering manual trans options in the non-NISMO variants earlier when I was googling, wasn't sure how true it was.

Bummer about the traction, though. I don't really want to keep the civic as I only have one parking spot, and have little desire to have it sitting around.

yes, rwd is absolutely horrendous in winter conditions/ice/sleet/snow:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5091/...763d3dcb_z.jpg

Evo X is a beast in snow though...

Top Gear USA Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution GSR Review/ Challenge - YouTube

No, that is not true. You can get a manual in all variants of the 370z.



The Z is not bad in snow. It's a RWD car, and requires a bit of extra care, but it is definitely driveable. You will probably need sandbags in the back on the more slippery days, and you will definitely need to be running quality snow tires, and your ground clearance will be limited, but there is no reason you can't.


On the other hand, if you have never driven a RWD car in snow before, you may not want to learn on the Z.

Get the sport package which has Limited Slip Differential.
Get winter tires (Blizzak LM-60 or Michelin X-Ice X2).

That's what I did and I'm not worried. Lots of people in the forums have had success with that combo.

Forget about just dealing with snow, why not have fun with it instead?
EvoX or an '11 STi can give you some dangerous amounts of fun when you put some snow tires on.

^^ +1

If I can't sell my Evo X by winter I'm not going to be upset... :)

Makes me sad in pants :(

Wow :eek: How "sub" is "sub"?

You can get the manual on the base and touring coups and touring roadster. I wouldn't get a Nismo or Touring, neither are worth the money. Base + sport is the way to go.

It looks to have summer tires on it, I call that retarded....

me too :shakes head:

i was hit by an eighteen wheeler after i lost control merging onto the highway in winter weather. my VDC was on and didn't engage. it was a sad, sad day...

Nah, I think I had all seasons on at the time.

LOL I was just thining the same thing. I mean, I could say I drive a "sub -1000 hp 370Z" :bowrofl:

about 185 whp.




:tiphat:

Just kidding. ~445 whp, so ~495 bhp assuming 10% drivetrain loss.

I've had a blast in it, but the limitations of FWD become so horrific once you surpass ~220 whp in this car. Definitely a fun car, but now that I actually have some real income coming at me, I want a nicer car that I can actually build up to handle 500 hp and not just spin tires the entire time

Well, my first question ..at the risk of derailing the thread topic ... is "HOW did you do that?"

This

Any rear wheel drive car is limited in ice and snow but if you get the sport package (limited slip diff) real snow tires, keep the VDC (stability control on) and drive with a little good sense you should be ok. My cousin always had rear drive when he lived in Aspen CO. and he had no problems.

You'll love the Z in the other three seasons.

I used to drive a 350ZR all year in here, Canada.

My suggestion is, get a set of very good snow tires. I didn't put sand-bag in the trunk, and it was ok.

The other thing is ground clearance, I got stuck in snow couple times because of that, so be very careful and don't be over optimistic if you see some THICK LAYER of snow.

About the VDC, it is useful, I mean, very very useful.

There were one time my car get onto a huge area of ice on a ramp off from highway, I was going about 30-40km/h and I saw there were two cars had collided together already, and my car was just starting to lose control on the iced-surface, I hit the brake all the way (don't say I shouldn't do that thus lost traction blah blah blah..... at that moment there was nothing you can do beside that) , the VDC engaged and control the brakes individually and eventually I can pull my car away from those vehicles. That time was very very close.

The other time was after I've make a lane change on the HWY and the lane I got on was practically ice-surfaced. My car started to fish-tail, I didn't hit the brake but I hold on to the steering properly, and I just kept my foot steady on the gas. The VDC kicked in again and safe my life another time.

I have snows tires on during winter.

One note, VDC won't get you out of snow, you need to gas the Z out of the snow, but once you have the car moving, the VDC will keep you away from trouble.

The Z can actually drive very good on snow, consider it is a performance car, I can manage the Z about 70-90km/h on a snow covered HWY.

cheers

Haha, well, I'm not sure how much is known about Hondas in general since they're generally disliked by the car community. For those who don't know, the powerplant in the 06-11 Civic SIs is a k20z3. The k series motors are, without a doubt in my mind, some of the best (if not the best) 4 cylinder motors produced. If the Z's V6 is as good for a V6 as the k20 is for a 4 cyl, I will be a very happy guy. Anyways, they flow spectacularly, and are near-bulletproof. So, I slapped on a well-built turbo kit with a precision 5857 turbo. 11 psi later and I'm making about 445 whp. The downside is that only about 220 whp of that is actually useful unless I'm on the highway :rofl2:

And that's good to know about the Z being ok with winter tires. I really do like the Evo, but I feel like I would enjoy having a true sports car more, even if it means half of the year I'm sliding around on winter tires. Decisions, decisions..

If you have experience driving in the snow/ice, have somoe common sense, and are not some random idiot (like the F&F# crowd that buys a Z and wrecks it), you should be ok. Nothing is perfect and murphy is lurking, but I am sure you will do fine if you purchase a Z. I love my NISMO and she handles snow/ice as well as I drive her (I turn into grandma when the weather gets bad I.E. snow/ice/rain). Good luck with your decision.

You are 22..and thinking about a 40K car that you want to modify, and then in the same breath you say you can't afford a beater? See the problem here.

Your priorities are not right.

Its just plain out stupid to not be able to afford downtime etc...when doing something like that. Its just plain stupid to expect to drive a fat tired RWD sports car as your only car in a region that will get consistent snow.

I suggest looking for a 09/10 used model and taking the 10K saved and finding a solid Subaru for your other car. Go non-turbo.

Insure that as your primary vehicle (it won't be too bad compared to a WRX or evo). Z is secondary car. If you mod Z, it breaks, you still have car to get to work etc...

At 22 you should be dreaming about the toys and buying/using something more practical while you establish yourself and grow into success. You can't have it all right away: that will typically lead to bad decision making.

- b

It is about the tires and how you drive. With good all seasons you should be driving slower than the average car. Part of the problem is the width of the tire. A thinner tire is best in winter. If you go with a smaller thinner winter tire, I would think the only issue would be some weight in back and clearance. I had all season conti's on my G coupe and got around in winter just fine for a few years. I just had to understand what I had and how I could drive.

I can imagine! Holy torque steer batman. :icon17:

Anyways, like everyone is saying, the Z is fine in the snow with good snow tires. You are only limited by clearance... so don't expect to drive far in more than 4-5" of fresh snow.

But anything less than that, especially plowed/packed snow, will be no problem for a RWD car with snow tires. :tup:

first thought exactly

Best advice yet

There's quite a few ex-Honda guys running around here, though I'd say the forum as a whole is relatively unfamiliar.


Definitely don't expect a k20 in v6 form from the vq. It is really an unfair comparison---I don't think there's much else out there that compares.

All season, no good during any seasons. It's only mildly retarded instead of full blown then.

In Texas, we never think about getting snow tire set.
That makes it really dangerous driving on snow (we DO get snow about a week!!!)
I've seen some youtube videos driving Z with fully equipped snow tires and he handled the car pretty damn good

Snow tires do wonders for any car. If you've never had the chance to experience the difference between an all-season tire and snow tire on the snow it's quite impressive.

RWD with all-seasons is workable in most places with semi-cleared roads or less than 8" of snow on a car that doesn't sit 3" off the ground like the Z.

Personally I think the guy who says your priorities are jacked has it right. Get a decent daily driver and wait a bit. No way in hell I'd have the Z as my only car, especially in a 4-season part of the US.

Option D: do you have a significant other that you can carpool with? That works out well too if your daily is a Z ;)

You might think about buying an older, cheaper rear wheel drive car at this stage.

It depends on the driver. Have you any experience with RWD ?

I drove rear wheel drive year-around in Colorado with all-season tires. It took some finesse, but it was no problem as long as i understood the limits of traction/grip.

Unlike your Civic Si, the weight of the engine will not be over the driven wheels for more traction.

Let me rephrase.. I could buy a beater, I just don't want to drive a beater around. I could keep the civic since it's fully paid off, but I have no desire to. And I'm not opposed to a used car if I can find one

i use to take the bus to class when i was in college. and had a pos civic too with 92K miles on it all by me. :icon17:

not sure why you'd need a Z to go to class.

Bone stock Evo IX with a set of snow tires and you can be a full fledged rally driver with all wheel drive. If I lived in snow that would be my first choice.

You should be able to find one in relatively good condition.

For those days when you're getting really late :icon17:

I'm pretty much in a similar situation. 21 and Z is my only car, even in the winter and the snow. Had a beater last winter, but don't have it anymore so I will have to either deal with the snow on my all season tires or just stay at home :p

haha, oh ok. :tup: