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-   -   Must read now 370 vs Camaro.. !! (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/4274-must-read-now-370-vs-camaro.html)

SiXK 05-12-2009 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoccoSiffredi (Post 71575)
1.) It's not a piece of junk. It performs quite well and is a bargain at that price.
2.) Most of the employment issues you identify above are direct contributors to GM's current state of affairs.

a bargain? hmmmm... what would make it a bargain? doesn't it sticker in the high 30's for a SS?

Izzoh 05-12-2009 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSUTurboTiger (Post 71774)
a bargain? hmmmm... what would make it a bargain? doesn't it sticker in the high 30's for a SS?

I believe the 1SS is 31k and the 2SS 34k

SiXK 05-12-2009 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzoh (Post 71777)
I believe the 1SS is 31k and the 2SS 34k

True, but thats with no options. The $34K will probably be $38K in reality. To me thats not a bargain for a camaro whose only real strength is straight ahead speed.

I'm biased of course, I really don't like the car much. I am not digging the retro styling (get an original idea GM) and giant size of the car. At the very least they should have ended the retro before they designed the interior. I am glad Nissan has stayed away from the boat steering wheels like the camaro and challenger have.

I am glad, however, that GM made the thing. same with the Mustand GT and Challenger, I am glad other car companies are making performance oriented cars.

RoccoSiffredi 05-12-2009 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSUTurboTiger (Post 71782)
True, but thats with no options. The $34K will probably be $38K in reality. To me thats not a bargain for a camaro whose only real strength is straight ahead speed.

I'm biased of course, I really don't like the car much. I am not digging the retro styling (get an original idea GM) and giant size of the car. At the very least they should have ended the retro before they designed the interior. I am glad Nissan has stayed away from the boat steering wheels like the camaro and challenger have.

I am glad, however, that GM made the thing. same with the Mustand GT and Challenger, I am glad other car companies are making performance oriented cars.

Actually you can get a pretty loaded 2 SS for $34 - $35. You won't have sunroof or some coosmetic options like the smoked gray wheels or hood stripes, but you get the leather, Boston audio, I-pod interface, 6-speed manual, 20 inch wheels etc. That's abargin in my book.

I also think the car has a lot more going for it than straight line speed. Most of the magazine reviews have complimented it on its handling. Sure the skid pad numbers are a bit behind the Z, the slalom and braking numbers are quite similar. Pretty impressive for a car built on a sedan platform that weighs close to 4,000 pounds.

Not saying the Camaro is all things to all people, but it is a bargin just like the Z is. Just a bit of a different flavor.

MC 05-12-2009 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzoh (Post 71777)
I believe the 1SS is 31k and the 2SS 34k

the 2SS i saw at the dealer was like 39,300 or something

Izzoh 05-12-2009 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC@MYGTR (Post 71813)
the 2SS i saw at the dealer was like 39,300 or something

And the 370z I saw at the dealer was in the Low/Mid- $40's ..... what you getting at ??? :tup:

Izzoh 05-12-2009 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSUTurboTiger (Post 71782)
True, but thats with no options. The $34K will probably be $38K in reality. To me thats not a bargain for a camaro whose only real strength is straight ahead speed.

I'm biased of course, I really don't like the car much. I am not digging the retro styling (get an original idea GM) and giant size of the car. At the very least they should have ended the retro before they designed the interior. I am glad Nissan has stayed away from the boat steering wheels like the camaro and challenger have.

I am glad, however, that GM made the thing. same with the Mustand GT and Challenger, I am glad other car companies are making performance oriented cars.

It's ok to be bias I mean it is a Zcar forum after all .... I'm just trying to be fair is all. I really like the Z ( aside for the overheating ) and I love that it's finally grown-up and looks the part cause if it was the 350z I was comparing to the SS it would have been over along time ago and I'd be looking up what a Push rod is lol ;).

MightyBobo 05-13-2009 09:19 AM

Most dealerships are selling Camaro's at sticker price, or less. I know of at least 3 that were selling them for sticker, so saying a 34K sticker will be 38K in reality isn't accurate.

SiXK 05-13-2009 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo (Post 72194)
Most dealerships are selling Camaro's at sticker price, or less. I know of at least 3 that were selling them for sticker, so saying a 34K sticker will be 38K in reality isn't accurate.

I wasn't saying it would be a markup, I meant if you add options like most cars will have. $34K model with a few options will be around $38K. If you look at their website and look at the price of options, the aerodynamic package thing is $2300 by itself, so just adding that one option gets you to $36.3K, then you have floormats, etc. While the model does start at $34K, probably won't be many of those with no options. you could special order one and keep it at $34K I suppose.

I have no idea what kind of deal you can get on one, i am talking sticker price only.

regardless, i can't imagine paying $40K for a camaro, so, to me, a camaro priced in the high $30's is not a bargain but instead is the highest price I could imagine for that car. people that like camaros may think $40K would still be a good deal. just my .02.

MightyBobo 05-13-2009 09:48 AM

I think I fully equipped a 2SS and it was almost 40K or so. But, you can just as easily get a stripper 1SS with most everything anyone would want, for around 31 or 32...

Izzoh 05-13-2009 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSUTurboTiger (Post 72199)
I wasn't saying it would be a markup, I meant if you add options like most cars will have. $34K model with a few options will be around $38K. If you look at their website and look at the price of options, the aerodynamic package thing is $2300 by itself, so just adding that one option gets you to $36.3K, then you have floormats, etc. While the model does start at $34K, probably won't be many of those with no options. you could special order one and keep it at $34K I suppose.

I have no idea what kind of deal you can get on one, i am talking sticker price only.

regardless, i can't imagine paying $40K for a camaro, so, to me, a camaro priced in the high $30's is not a bargain but instead is the highest price I could imagine for that car. people that like camaros may think $40K would still be a good deal. just my .02.

True I dont think there should be a 40k Camaro either same as I dont think their should be a 40k 370z ( at least a 40k V6 Z ). Which is why I'm glad they both have base versions that keep the main features and come in at the low 30's.

RoccoSiffredi 05-13-2009 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSUTurboTiger (Post 72199)
I wasn't saying it would be a markup, I meant if you add options like most cars will have. $34K model with a few options will be around $38K. If you look at their website and look at the price of options, the aerodynamic package thing is $2300 by itself, so just adding that one option gets you to $36.3K, then you have floormats, etc. While the model does start at $34K, probably won't be many of those with no options. you could special order one and keep it at $34K I suppose.

I have no idea what kind of deal you can get on one, i am talking sticker price only.

regardless, i can't imagine paying $40K for a camaro, so, to me, a camaro priced in the high $30's is not a bargain but instead is the highest price I could imagine for that car. people that like camaros may think $40K would still be a good deal. just my .02.

I don't think adding the gound effects kit is a fair comparison. Most of the new f-body owners are not getting it. Using that logic would be equivalent to tacking on a bunch of dealer installed NISMO options and saying the Z is over $40k. Not the case. You can get Zs for much less than that all day long.

You can get a loaded SS for around $35k. Again a bargin in my book. Find me any car that handles well, has 400 plus horse power, traps at 111, and that stickers in the mid 30s? Good luck.

Lug 05-13-2009 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoccoSiffredi (Post 72282)
I don't think adding the gound effects kit is a fair comparison. Most of the new f-body owners are not getting it. Using that logic would be equivalent to tacking on a bunch of dealer installed NISMO options and saying the Z is over $40k. Not the case. You can get Zs for much less than that all day long.

You can get a loaded SS for around $35k. Again a bargin in my book. Find me any car that handles well, has 400 plus horse power, traps at 111, and that stickers in the mid 30s? Good luck.

I've seen new vettes going for under $39K lately. That's a far better deal, IMNSHO.

Izzoh 05-13-2009 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug (Post 72374)
I've seen new vettes going for under $39K lately. That's a far better deal, IMNSHO.

Where ???

Lug 05-13-2009 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzoh (Post 72403)
Where ???

I saw 5 of them on AutoTrader about a week ago when I did a search on new Vettes and filtered under $40,000. None today though. This is THE time to get a Vette if you ever want one, after this recession, you'll probably never see new ones at this price again.

SiXK 05-13-2009 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoccoSiffredi (Post 72282)
I don't think adding the gound effects kit is a fair comparison. Most of the new f-body owners are not getting it. Using that logic would be equivalent to tacking on a bunch of dealer installed NISMO options and saying the Z is over $40k. Not the case. You can get Zs for much less than that all day long.

You can get a loaded SS for around $35k. Again a bargin in my book. Find me any car that handles well, has 400 plus horse power, traps at 111, and that stickers in the mid 30s? Good luck.


I just went by the option prices on their website. Its safe to say you can get a $34K SS with a few minor options (floormats, etc) for $35K, and you could load it up for a few thousand more. I am not trying to dog on the camaro, the more performance cars out there the better.

gmag21 07-04-2009 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXo5 (Post 69294)
"I like a fine body regardless of the make or model"

lmao fast and furious

frost 07-04-2009 05:15 PM

RAWR! Thread back from dead!!
http://thelemonspank.files.wordpress...zombie-cat.jpg

370Z Purist 07-05-2009 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost (Post 106301)


Hooray for revived threads on completely pointless topics (like comparing another car to the forum car... and expecting only good replies that remain coherent and non-fanboi loaded).

ADmaster71690 07-05-2009 03:26 PM

does anyone have a good acceleration comparison of the two vehicles (i.e. both vehicles tested by the same magazine at the same time)? I'm assuming the Camaro is faster, just want to see by how much.

SpawnAeroJohn 07-05-2009 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Block (Post 68511)
I had a Vietnam veteran pull up to me the other day on the road in his bike asking me why I bought a Japanese vehicle and then scolded me for not supporting America. I rolled up my window while laughing and turned a different direction. I'm sure that leather vest he was wearing was made in America... or that television he has in his home.

Lol 1959 Zenith television.

nicknick 07-05-2009 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan64 (Post 68698)
I wanted to like the new camaro, I really did. The outside reminds me of the old days. When I looked inside,, well, they are still plastic crap and ugly. The 370 is such a gorgeous interior, it just blows the camaro away. The outside of the 370 is every bit as gorgeous as the camaro and is a better made car.

I disagree. The interior of the Z is way better but the exterior is not better than the Camaro. In fact it is streets ahead. Love the Z!

Crash 07-05-2009 11:10 PM

Oiy... I can't read all these pages from both the camaro thread and the z thread...

TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT CARS! DIFFERENT PURPOSES!

They both have their pros and cons. Some of the things said by both Camaro fan boys and Z fan boys are totally ignorant.

I've been on both sides of the fence and I can say that it's amazing how dumb the argument is. And fanboy or not for either of the cars, some of the comments made were down right stupid.

"It's better cause it's American"
"Z's a better track car"
"Camaros get shock and awe"
"Z's look better"
"Who wants a 2 door maxima"


Seriously dumb comments. I've owned a few F-Bodies and I've owned a Z. They are two TOTALLY different animals and can't be compared other than having wheels and a motor. They serve the driver differently and have completely different goals, no different from comparing the 370z to the G37.

I think this argument is moot, but leave it to ignorant fanboys to forget that as gear heads we should appreciate the good in any vehicle.

Pushing_Tin 07-05-2009 11:19 PM

The made in America comment is absurd. It's was designed in Australia and made in Canada. How exactly is it American?

I do think it's a fine car though, and did cross shop it. In the end I'm very happy with the Z and glad I don't have to worry about GM going tits up.

fly yellow 07-05-2009 11:42 PM

The way I see it, everyone of us who pays taxes bought American and we don't have a car to show for it.

Now that the unions have hustled the taxpayer I will never buy another American car again.

whoady4shoady 07-06-2009 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fly yellow (Post 107613)
The way I see it, everyone of us who pays taxes bought American and we don't have a car to show for it.

Now that the unions have hustled the taxpayer I will never buy another American car again.


Good post, and i totally agree.

nurburgring 07-06-2009 01:57 AM

lol@ camaro. why are we talking about that piece of slop again?

only Chevy that has the right to be mentioned on this forum is the ZR1.

need4speed 07-06-2009 09:04 AM

GM is a joke… the american car corporations are a joke.
Keep makin cara for 5% of the country
And you will make 5% of the NGP of total car sales.
There cars are mainly geared toward the racist american
Mullethead redneck society of north america. Mostly.
Corvette is way overpriced for its build quality.
Camaro interiors are cheap.
Pontiac is shutting down.
Trucks are 4 old headz n farmers n guzzle to much gas.
Cadillac only has the cts of bein a worthy car.
Buick is the best of GM. But lil money is invested in ads to sell them better.
Ford mustang. The paper machee sculpture in the world of granite shrines.
Cheaply built n outdated tech.
Ford taurus.... we'll see
Focus... rather own a mazda 3 base.
F150 the best duty truck in da business. But no fun factor unless u wear a mullet.
Chrysler... challanger... no handling capability. The car for Sunday cruising.
The dash looks the same in every chrysler car.
The best materials inside than the other ponies but still not the best quality
By comparison of foreign companies. Sorry. Besides my altima was built here
In the USA n nissan didn't lay off ant americans n didn't need a bailour for there
Norh American division.
Oh YEAH REDNECKS. When nissan, hyundai, honda,toyota say
NORTH AMERICAN DIVISiON
THAT MEANS THEY ARE ACTUALLY PROVIDING FACTORIES PLUS AN ASSORTMENT
Line, management engineering and logistics jobs as well as banking and finance.
THuS stimulating the american market.
THE AUtO MARKET WENT GLOBAL in the 80s. Cobalts n cavaliers were
Toyota parts on an american design. And most of the pontiacs and saturns.
Were global cars designed n built in european australian n canadian factories.
While most of the compacts were built in mexico. Only leaving america to build gas
Guzzling trucks.
So know ur sh%t. Too many ignorant people in this world.
Yeah god bless america.
But america please don't try to rob me by selling me a 30k car that's only worth 20k
The second it rolls off the lot and only 9k affter 1 year n 15kmiles.
Which is the value of 75% of the gm and chrysler line up. N 90% of ford.
I owned 3 american cars. My moms car is american. Its a good reliable car.
But she paid 30k for her car in 05. The malibu fully loaded with all leather n goodies.
In 09. The car is worth 5k as a trade n 9k to a dealer.
My altimas. The o8, I bought a 3.5v6 23,5k on a deal I got. Its worth 21k now.
My 98 altima was 14k in 98. Its worth $5500 in 09.
Cars are an investment.
If a company is going to sell u better quality go for it.
The flag can only take you so far when u have to think of ur future.
Do u buy stock knowing its unstable?
Or do u buy stock that has a huge potential for growth?
I pray america gets in the game strong. I really do.
But I'm also mad at GM for taking billions in baolout money.
Then filing bankruptcy. Us taxpayers were robbed. N then they filed
So they can get a debt discount. That's mad shady.
So no. I have no respect for the american auto discount.
They are thieves and welfare recipients.

nurburgring 07-06-2009 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need4speed (Post 107910)
GM is a joke… the american car corporations are a joke.
Keep makin cara for 5% of the country
And you will make 5% of the NGP of total car sales.
There cars are mainly geared toward the racist american
Mullethead redneck society of north america. Mostly.
Corvette is way overpriced for its build quality.
Camaro interiors are cheap.
Pontiac is shutting down.
Trucks are 4 old headz n farmers n guzzle to much gas.
Cadillac only has the cts of bein a worthy car.
Buick is the best of GM. But lil money is invested in ads to sell them better.
Ford mustang. The paper machee sculpture in the world of granite shrines.
Cheaply built n outdated tech.
Ford taurus.... we'll see
Focus... rather own a mazda 3 base.
F150 the best duty truck in da business. But no fun factor unless u wear a mullet.
Chrysler... challanger... no handling capability. The car for Sunday cruising.
The dash looks the same in every chrysler car.
The best materials inside than the other ponies but still not the best quality
By comparison of foreign companies. Sorry. Besides my altima was built here
In the USA n nissan didn't lay off ant americans n didn't need a bailour for there
Norh American division.
Oh YEAH REDNECKS. When nissan, hyundai, honda,toyota say
NORTH AMERICAN DIVISiON
THAT MEANS THEY ARE ACTUALLY PROVIDING FACTORIES PLUS AN ASSORTMENT
Line, management engineering and logistics jobs as well as banking and finance.
THuS stimulating the american market.
THE AUtO MARKET WENT GLOBAL in the 80s. Cobalts n cavaliers were
Toyota parts on an american design. And most of the pontiacs and saturns.
Were global cars designed n built in european australian n canadian factories.
While most of the compacts were built in mexico. Only leaving america to build gas
Guzzling trucks.
So know ur sh%t. Too many ignorant people in this world.
Yeah god bless america.
But america please don't try to rob me by selling me a 30k car that's only worth 20k
The second it rolls off the lot and only 9k affter 1 year n 15kmiles.
Which is the value of 75% of the gm and chrysler line up. N 90% of ford.
I owned 3 american cars. My moms car is american. Its a good reliable car.
But she paid 30k for her car in 05. The malibu fully loaded with all leather n goodies.
In 09. The car is worth 5k as a trade n 9k to a dealer.
My altimas. The o8, I bought a 3.5v6 23,5k on a deal I got. Its worth 21k now.
My 98 altima was 14k in 98. Its worth $5500 in 09.
Cars are an investment.
If a company is going to sell u better quality go for it.
The flag can only take you so far when u have to think of ur future.
Do u buy stock knowing its unstable?
Or do u buy stock that has a huge potential for growth?
I pray america gets in the game strong. I really do.
But I'm also mad at GM for taking billions in baolout money.
Then filing bankruptcy. Us taxpayers were robbed. N then they filed
So they can get a debt discount. That's mad shady.
So no. I have no respect for the american auto discount.
They are thieves and welfare recipients.

wow, that's the opposite of a run-on sentence. probably should have kept that to yourself. :wtf2:

NIZMOZ 07-06-2009 09:33 AM

I think the Camaro guys could type a sentence better than that. That is a insult to us Z guys.

nurburgring 07-06-2009 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIZMOZ (Post 107919)
I think the Camaro guys could type a sentence better than that. That is a insult to us Z guys.

agreed. one of those times when you say, "no no don't defend us, you are making it worse!" lol

Maxima09 07-06-2009 10:02 AM

Hard to compare these two cars. One is a coupe with a back seat, one is a 2 seat sports car. V8 vs V6, and on and on. It's a different car altogether.

Pushing_Tin 07-06-2009 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need4speed (Post 107910)
GM is a joke… the american car corporations are a joke.
Keep makin cara for 5% of the country
And you will make 5% of the NGP of total car sales.
There cars are mainly geared toward the racist american
Mullethead redneck society of north america. Mostly.
Corvette is way overpriced for its build quality.
Camaro interiors are cheap.
Pontiac is shutting down.
Trucks are 4 old headz n farmers n guzzle to much gas.
Cadillac only has the cts of bein a worthy car.
Buick is the best of GM. But lil money is invested in ads to sell them better.
Ford mustang. The paper machee sculpture in the world of granite shrines.
Cheaply built n outdated tech.
Ford taurus.... we'll see
Focus... rather own a mazda 3 base.
F150 the best duty truck in da business. But no fun factor unless u wear a mullet.
Chrysler... challanger... no handling capability. The car for Sunday cruising.
The dash looks the same in every chrysler car.
The best materials inside than the other ponies but still not the best quality
By comparison of foreign companies. Sorry. Besides my altima was built here
In the USA n nissan didn't lay off ant americans n didn't need a bailour for there
Norh American division.
Oh YEAH REDNECKS. When nissan, hyundai, honda,toyota say
NORTH AMERICAN DIVISiON
THAT MEANS THEY ARE ACTUALLY PROVIDING FACTORIES PLUS AN ASSORTMENT
Line, management engineering and logistics jobs as well as banking and finance.
THuS stimulating the american market.
THE AUtO MARKET WENT GLOBAL in the 80s. Cobalts n cavaliers were
Toyota parts on an american design. And most of the pontiacs and saturns.
Were global cars designed n built in european australian n canadian factories.
While most of the compacts were built in mexico. Only leaving america to build gas
Guzzling trucks.
So know ur sh%t. Too many ignorant people in this world.
Yeah god bless america.
But america please don't try to rob me by selling me a 30k car that's only worth 20k
The second it rolls off the lot and only 9k affter 1 year n 15kmiles.
Which is the value of 75% of the gm and chrysler line up. N 90% of ford.
I owned 3 american cars. My moms car is american. Its a good reliable car.
But she paid 30k for her car in 05. The malibu fully loaded with all leather n goodies.
In 09. The car is worth 5k as a trade n 9k to a dealer.
My altimas. The o8, I bought a 3.5v6 23,5k on a deal I got. Its worth 21k now.
My 98 altima was 14k in 98. Its worth $5500 in 09.
Cars are an investment.
If a company is going to sell u better quality go for it.
The flag can only take you so far when u have to think of ur future.
Do u buy stock knowing its unstable?
Or do u buy stock that has a huge potential for growth?
I pray america gets in the game strong. I really do.
But I'm also mad at GM for taking billions in baolout money.
Then filing bankruptcy. Us taxpayers were robbed. N then they filed
So they can get a debt discount. That's mad shady.
So no. I have no respect for the american auto discount.
They are thieves and welfare recipients.


http://trackdayshots.com/posthosting...eakEnglish.gif

I've had a lot of Fords and I never had a problem with any of them. Are they thrilling to drive? No, were they solid dependable vehicles? Yes.

CrownR426 07-06-2009 12:41 PM

This always get's ugly, way too much hating going on!
We all know what would happen when it comes down to the streets and track so why don't we all just man up and let this die!

shabarivas 07-06-2009 12:56 PM

Seriously - two cars for two entirely different occasions - this is like a pickup truck owner arguing with a prius driver about which car is better.... /thread

Celcius 07-06-2009 12:58 PM

How do sensible, mature adults come to the conclusion that the best way to spend their time is to measure eachothers car cocks and throw stereotypes at eachother via forums? This is rediculous.

I'm not going to bother arguing each cars strong and weak points, I think that doing so would only contribute to the flaming going on in both forums. Both threads on both forums should be locked. Threads like this only spawn blind hatred from members who get offended by others talking trash on their pride and joy, and make otherwise level headed individuals into hate mongers.

Crash 07-06-2009 01:16 PM

Geezus, Need4Speed...

OK... Wow.. I guess I agree with 1/3rd of what you said... But there's a lot of miss-lead accusations in there. I don't like the politics behind GM either, but damn, dude... It sounds like you have some serious pent up anger against them.

My Solstice was '07 35K out the door. It's worth 18K now. Of course GM cars don't maintain their value. Especially now. The only American cars that maintain or appreciate value are the old muscle cars... That's about it. Even a used ZR1 can be bought for under 100K. Practically new Z06 Corvettes are around 45-50K on ebay all day long.

There's no winning with them if you're going for value. Buy the car cause you want it. Not because it's an investment.

tstrick9 07-06-2009 01:22 PM

The union didnt hustle anybody, what they got was bargained for and agreed to by highly compensated executives. It is as if some people think that these labor contracts were just dropped from above and in final form. Additionally, the main escalator of expenses for the US car manufactures is and has been health care, for actives and retirees, whereas both Japanese and German companies are relieved of large portions of similar obligations by their respective governments...so not really a level playing field from that perspective.

Maxima09 07-06-2009 02:22 PM

I think the points made about resale value are very valid. If you buy a car like a Camaro, you have to want to keep it for a long time, or not be too bothered by a pretty significant drop in value right off the bat. It comes with the territory. I have a Z28 that I still haven't sold, and it has a lot to do with the fact that while it's a third car, the resale/trade in value just didnt make enough sense to get rid of it yet.

Lug 07-06-2009 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas (Post 108133)
Seriously - two cars for two entirely different occasions - this is like a pickup truck owner arguing with a prius driver about which car is better.... /thread

um...the truck....duh! :rolleyes:






:D


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