The argument of the 7.0 is because it skips gears to create its fuel efficency and has to make sacrifices to reach those MPG. I drove hard in the city last week and still hit 20MPG, and by hard I mean never shifting before 4k and haivng a lot of fun runs with friends.

I know it's not a 7.0, but my 5.7 had the same feature, and I never used it. I still got over published mileage in the city, and that car was over 100K miles old. I am willing to bet my Z06 would get well over 16mpg in the city without using it, too. Actually, the skip-shift feature is VERY unobtrusive on the Z06. I hardly ever run into it. I shift before I reach the rpm window usually and it still accelerates nicely.

you might want to check your figures, the countrys biggest expendutire is in the military.

youe point makes no sense, the car is geared for a car with 500hp. the car in 4th gear at 25mph has more power than your car in 2nd

Highly doubt that since I have a SC 370z and I know what a C6 Z06 can do in 2nd gear. :tup:
The point of the post was the car makes sacrifices to achieve fuel economy. I am saying not that is a huge negative (would love to have a LS7) but it has to do something to achieve its higher MPG which keeps it out of the gas guzzler field. Maybe GM should have invested in making a more modern engine instead of focusing on just larger displacement with its latest LS motors.

2011 GTR combined fuel mileage is 17 (15-21). Z06 is 18 (15-24). ZR1 is 16 (14-20). I don't care what technology it has, it is still pretty impressive given what it can do. The skip shift is just a way to fool the CAFE test, not much different than an automatic transmission locking its converter. The gear on the C6 is built for track, it has the power to back it up. It's the same reason why the 370 has taller gear than the 350. If you put gears from a Civic in a Corvette, you will just spin tires and make pointless shifts. If anything, Chevy is smart to have an engine that can develop power from basically 2000 to 6500. I don't get why these threads always become hate threads. Most of the Corvette guys think they have the best car and all the Japanese drivers think they have the best car. It's ignorant. Is it that hard to respect one another's car and choice.

When did I say I had the best car?
Guess what, I almost bought a Z06 before the 370z but felt it was a bit out of my price range at the time so I went conservative. Does not change the fact that I feel the technology in the Vette is old and needs to be updated. Yes the gear skip is to beat CAFE, but GM needs to invest in a future, not games to beat a system.

soooo, about that shelby mustang...

I was just pulling up the numbers. Both cars are capable of the same mileage, but that's not why we buy these cars, is it?

And true, the GTR really battles the ZR1 for performance.

I know right I got thread jacked about 5 pages ago lol.

^^^ Hahahaha, check your pockets. :)

I don't see why it has to change for the sake of changing if it can offer the same fuel mileage, emission and performance. It's the same reason why we have 18s and 19s on every car now even though 16s and 17s are just as good and if not better. You are paying 50-60K for a car that can perform like a 100K car. That is impressive by any standard. CAGS is only activated when you are rolling off the line slowly anyway. Unless you are taking it easy, you are not going to feel a single thing. It's overblown like the Prius runaway stories. Speaking of technology and Prius, now that is a car full of technology.

NASCAR Cup cars can run 9000RPM making 800HP+ with a carb on there!

Maybe you should show me another engine that makes the same (or more) horsepower and gets the same (or better) economy.

The LS7 is just fine. It weighs around 450#, makes 505bhp, and will get 26mpg on the freeway in my experience.

Oh, it has a 5/100K mile warranty, too.

Go find me this "modern" engine that can equal that for $15K.

It doesn't exist.


Did you actually do any research on why the corvette has the engine that it does?

Have you actually compared the physical weight of the LS series engines (about 450#) to their competitors? Have you compared mileage? Have you compared power under the curve?

Noone gives a damn about displacement, it's a means to an end. What designers care about is power/weight, and the LS-series engines are KING in that department. Compare them to any N/A engine out there and you will find that the only one's that better them in physical power/weight cost roughly $50K and are found in AMG's. The LS7 costs $14K.

Now you bitch about mileage. Bring up skip-shift. Bring up all that crap.

Well why don't you go look at a 'vette with an LS3 and a slush-box? It gets 1mpg less in the city than the stick. It has no CAGS. It has an efficiency-robbing hydraulic tq converter.

CAGs. It's not doing all that you think it is.

Just because the LS3 and LS7 use old concepts does not mean that they are not cutting edge engines. Your tires are still round and all that. Doesn't mean the rubber around the rim is as old a design as the wheel-shape, if you get the drift.

I have got 3K miles on my Z06 and hit CAGS less than a dozen times. There are VERY specific parameters, and in the Z06 and I assume the Viper, they are a lot harder to "hit" than in the F-body I had.

Stay tuned for when Ford actually puts some meat out back or you might as well buy a BOSS. At least it can put *most* of its power to work and the 0-100 times are within a tenth or two because of it.

Matt, your argument doesn't work. There's nothing wrong with the LS series of engines. In fact, the LS7 is a very modern take on a pushrod design. Just because it's an old design doesn't mean it's a bad one.

The truth of the matter is that with these big V8s, whether they are pushrod or OHC like my 5.0, you don't need to use but a couple gears to get around in normal driving. When I drive I usually shift from 1-4-6 and have plenty of get up and go thanks to the amount of low end torque this car has. The only reason it has a skip shift feature is so the morons at the EPA drive the thing correctly. There is NO need to go 1-2-3-4-5-6 in a car like my 5.0, let alone a C6 Z06.

You said it yourself though, it is just a modern take on a old engine design.
I never said the engine was bad or horrible, I am just saying GM needs to focus on the future instead of constantly rebuilding from the past glory years.

Why am I limited to just NA motors? We are talking about all motors here, throw in V6TT or V6SC and they easily match the LS7 on all levels including cost, weight, MPG. This is the modern world, NA engines are just a small fraction, boost or variations of boost are easily competitive, just as cheap and offer equal (if not more most of the time) power with MPG.

That goes against the formula of the Corvette.

I would never give any money to Shelby no matter how good the car is.

Congrats, Nascar motors are tuned to the very end and last how long? Not a huge Nascar fan,
The Prius technology is 10+ years and already way behind on technology. Might want to read up on modern battery technology. Now Toyota does have some new ideas coming down the pipeline, but not yet.

I hope they go back to the SVT Cobra name instead of the Shelby BS.

I am not saying go to a V6TT setup for the Corvette, I would never want to see the V8 disappear from that car. I am saying lets take a step back and look at making the best V8 using modern technology and that good ole American knowledge. I love the fact the LSx motors are so cheap and create lots of power, but lets bring it up against the world motors using newer technology and break the mold. Do something new & ground breaking.

I believe the Shelby contract is up soon right, that might make the push back to the SVT setup. Especially if it lines up with the 50th Anniversary of the Mustang.

And honestly, what good is advanced technology if it doesn't really add any value?

But why? When you continue to crush the competition with a street and race proven system, why do you need to change it up? I think the LS series motors are fantastic performers. Light, compact, extremely powerful and reliable. I see no need to change them when they continue to beat the piss out of everything else.

But what good is sitting on old technology and never seeing what modern technology can add?
Take some risk.

They can take risks elsewhere. There is no real need to change the LS series up.

I really thought this thread was about GTR vs Vette's...

:stirthepot::inoutroflpuke:

Because everyone around you is moving forward and sooner or later they are going to kick your ass. Not all new technology is perfect or a real improvement, some stuff is just side upgrades moving over to new items that look nice. That is why I am saying looking from the ground up, being innovators.

You know you're just a whore for technology. :icon17:

I am a whore for improving technology, not publicity stunts or side upgrades to technology. Which with some of the people in this thread I cannot name specific cars or brands or I might upset them. :stirthepot:

Okay, the GT-R's engine/turbo's weigh over 600#. The LS9 makes way more power, and weighs around 500#. Lets go move for move.

GM is not "re-building glory-years". They are making the most power that can possibly be made in a 450# engine without incurring insane costs.

Why don't you do some research on it? Nothing even comes close to the LS7 for making 500+bhp N/A price-wise. I mean by tens of thousands of dollars.

Nothing makes as much as the LS9 in the production car world unless you want to include things like the Veyron, and kit-car type stuff. Then you would have to include Hennessey's "kit car".

My point is, for the cost of the LSX series engine, they are BY FAR the best performing powerplant you can buy when it comes to durability/power/weight/price, and easy as pie to upgrade even further, or leave alone and enjoy a 5/100 warranty.

Can you name another 600+bhp car that has a 5/100K mile warranty?

This argument is similar to what S2000 owners keep crowing about "hp/L".

Well since you lost the race, your opinion isn't worth much. That's the message GM is sending by producing the fastest production car in the world (regarding the 'Ring, which seems to be "the" standard now days). They did it all with 16 valves and 1 cam.

Improving technology is GREAT! But when you have a $9 mouse-trap with 30 moving parts that won't catch as many mice as the $0.99 mousetrap with 3 moving parts--you fail.

Again I am looking at improvements in technology, not shitty side upgrades. Wow, you keep throwing out arguments that make your point and avoid my side completely.
Again, the Nissan R35 engine plus manifold, downpipes (cats) and more making it 600lbs. I have yet to see just the motor weight in without all the OEM exhaust parts. I have picked up the OEM exhaust parts, each piece weights in around 15lbs which adds up quickly.

Great we agree on the LSx motors are fantastic which is not what I have been saying. I am saying the motors are dated and GM should look forward and not backwards.

Oh I did forget one thing though: VK56VD & VK56DE
DE currently capped at 600HP & 479TQ per racing requirements, VD is not yet allowed to be raced.

They would only be dated if they couldn't compete. But they compete, and by compete I mean crush.

The more I think about it, it is considered a waste to buy a vehicle like this period. I just dont know sometimes. LOL

Since we're talking about everything under the sun, What do you guys think of global warming???

:D

NASCAR engines can go 600 miles (Coca Cola 600) running between 8000-9000RPM for virtually the whole race. Current F1 has 19 races with a 10 engine cap, each race is roughly 200 miles long. You don't have to like it, these are just facts. I personally can't stand the smell of leaded gas or the noise of the pushrod V8s, but I respect them for being great machines.

Prius is behind on technology? The last time I checked, Ford Escape's hybrid system and Altima's hybrid system are licensed through Toyota. Toyota also holds 2100+ patents on its synergy drive where Honda has half of that on their system. There is a reason why Prius is selling so much better than the Insight and the other hybrids. Also technology cost money, how do you expect to compete when you priced yourself out of the market. It's one of the reasons why Japanese sports cars died in the 90s. Supra/3000GT/NSX were over 50K, RX-7 TT/300ZX were approaching that level. It's not that Toyota doesn't have the technology, they are just smart enough not to price themselves out of the market (which I think you could say they did with the LFA). Lithium battery is great, but it cost nearly $4K more than the current setup. The current setup is also so reliable that people are getting 10+ years on them and they have offered 150K miles warranty on the CARBs cars for the batteries. It all comes down to cost and benefit. In the case of the LS motors, there is no benefit for GM to spend millions of dollars on a new motor when the current one is still competitive.

Also just for your reference, here is a dyno from a 350Z and a non Z06 C6. There is a big power difference between the two, that's the reason why you can bypass two gears driving in the city. 350's torque is basically the same as the 370 down low, the non Z06 C6 is a lot less than the Z06....

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/7308/dynoq.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If you think the LS engine is old, you might want to check with the Germans on their 911s........

Sorry OP for taking this way out of context.

What do you mean global warming, it is perfectly fine outside. It is not like a large portion of the US is breaking heat records or anything. :ugh2: