Depends on the circuit. If it's a short one, sure. If it's more of a longer one or the 'ring or something, they are pretty slow in my book. The mustang GT is quicker, and it's a muscle car. Also, the brakes are pretty pathetic. All-in-all, it's a raw experience and whatnot, but it's far from the performance powerhouse people make it out to be based on everything I have heard from those who actually own them. The car is mainly about fun. Not necessarily going fast.

AS to the GT-R, it's the opposite. It's all about going fast, and fun is a secondary consideration. (AWD, automatic, etc.)

The VQ makes 100whp less than the mustang does. Now you are talking about modifying it--even if done at the factory.

The Coyote (Ford's 5.0) is ready to go for DI. It was built with DI in mind. The VQ would then be behind by an even larger margin.

As to the GT-R, yes, you nailed what I was saying. The GT-R is not in the same class as the 370Z and it's a Halo car. That is like talking about the ZR1 and the Camaro SS or the Ford GT and the Ford mustang in the same sentence. They may share a couple of components at their basest level, but they really shouldn't be discussed together or taken as a representation of the brand.

No, the concept of the VQ is not out of date. The implementation of it is, though. Nissan needs to scrap the engine, and keep the knowledge gained from it. Just like GM did with the LS1 and Ford did with the 4.6L 2 and 3V engines. Great ideas, but they have a lot of room to be improved upon and reached the peak of their limitations without a re-do.

As to the NSX. Yeah, if my stock 150K mile Trans Am stomped one, it was underpowered for the money. It might have gotten around my old '95 F-body, but the beating wouldn't have been significant for sure. The NSX is like a supermodel with a great personality and a picture perfect smile that doesn't know how to make a sandwich.

:icon18:

the only sentence really worth reading...

and really, if she has those qualities.. shit, I can make her a sandwich

The NSX was a supercar when it first came out -- fastest ring lap for a production vehicle at the time. Further improvements to power were hindered during the '90s by Japan's 276 HP limit -- any Japanese car sold in the JDM could not exceed 276 HP. Given that situation during the 90s I'm guessing that not a lot of effort was put into making higher power engines. So when the update for the model finally came out, it was too little too late.

I would still rather have one of those than almost any American car made in the last 20 years.

that's not entirely true bro. The 3000GT VR-4, The Supra TT, the 300ZX TT, the Skyline GTR all made above 276..infact most of them had right around 320... minus the ZX.

You are right that there were exceptiions, but in general the manufacturers kept to their agreement. They had higher horsepower models built for their racing series. Also, there were some special "one-off" versions of some of the cars that exceeded this limit and sometimes the advertised horse power was at that limit, but the actual HP was greater.

Some of the models had "export" versions with higher horsepower -- Supra the mkIV is an example of this.

From wikipedia


Here's an except from the Nissan Skyline GT-R page on Wikipedia


See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_domestic_market

^^ Good stuff.

I am sure you mean something other than what I am reading/hearing. What is nonsensical about a Remington 870 for instance?

it wasn't even a gentlemans agreement, that's more of a rumor, then truth. It was more about JGTC rulings with the GT300 class racing..

The JGTC or All-Japan Grand Touring Championship (I hate to say it, but if you've ever played Gran Turismo 2 or 3 then you'll recognize the name VERY quickly) is a prestigious race series in Japan, similar to our NASCAR in popularity. It was created in 1994 and it's governing body the GT-A has VERY strict rules/regulations. The JGTC is seperated into 2 classes the GT 500 & GT 300; the numbers designate the ROUGH hp limits for cars competing in those classes. Motor swaps are restricted to the same manufacturer and the car's body MUST be mostly stock and functional. Aero mods and suspension tweaks are the very limit of what is allowed, so in essence it is mostly stock VS stock, especially in the GT 300 class; are you beginning to see the picture?

While anything from Vipers to Ferraris to Lambos compete in the GT 500, the 300 is more homegrown. The cars that traditionally competed in the GT 300 class were the cream-of-the-crop of all of the Japanese auto manufacturers, and it's line-up consisted of cars like the Mazda FD-3S RX-7, the Mitsu 3000 GT (GTO) and after wards the EVO, the Nissan 300ZX & Skyline, the Honda NSX, the Toyota Supra, and a few others. Ok, now are you seeing a logical trend here?!?

The JDM manufacturers wanted each of their flagship cars to be able to compete against one another without engine modification within the limits of the GT 300 Class horsepower limitations, so they all "claimed" that none of their cars made over 280 hp at the crank (but most of them underrated their vehicle's capabilities, in essense they all cheated). What better way to advertise your flagship car and prove that yours is better than your competitors than by having your mostly stock sportscar kick theirs' *** in the most prestigious, most watched racing circuit in all of Japan?!? It also made it easier for a potential team/owner to field a GT 300 Class car instead of a 500 because it was much cheaper since no engine mods would be needed. That made the GT 300 more popular than the GT 500, although the "big brother" Class attracted fans of the exotics.

:tup:

troof brah! <3

^^ thanks for clarifying.

It sounds like the full story is still more or less compatible with my conjecture was that their energies were more directed to getting better performance out of their relatively low power sports cars through handling and balance improvements rather than raw HP.

:tup:
I wouldn't say relatively low tho, at least not in the ninties
I like JGTC way more than NASCAR btw.. just sayin

Road circuits FTW!! But, frankly, I like almost any races where motorized vehicles are involved :)

Anyway, remember that my original post was a conjecture on why the NSX, as a supercar, was underpowered in the late 90s early 2ks.