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Nissan 370Z Forum (http://www.the370z.com/)
-   Nissan 370Z General Discussions (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/)
-   -   Nissan Ester Oil (http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discussions/3530-nissan-ester-oil.html)

kannibul 02-14-2010 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by semtex (Post 400921)
I think this notion that Ester oil is the factory-fill is highly doubtful. I know, I know, I've heard the argument before: Nissan made this oil for this engine, so of course it comes from the factory filled with it. Per one of your previous posts in this thread:



Sounds reasonable, except for two things. First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads (just look at how they've handled the oil-cooler issue). So I don't think we can assume that a company will fill their cars with a specific oil even if they specifically designed that oil for that car. This is especially true if said oil is more costly than the regular stuff they use. I know, that just doesn't seem right. But I've seen stranger decisions made, especially whenever there are a few bucks to be saved.

More significant, however, is the TSB for VVEL noise for the G37. The G37 has the exact same engine, so one would expect it to come with Ester oil as factory-fill as well, right? After all, Nissan designed the oil for this engine. Yet, on the Infiniti side of the house, there's a TSB for the issue of valve noise ( ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator). Guess what the TSB says the fix is? It's a two-parter: A software update, plus changing the oil over to Ester oil! Now, let's think about this. How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine? I mean c'mon, let's use a little common-sense deduction here. In spite of designing this oil for this engine, they're filling these engines up with the cheap stuff at the factory!

I do realize that there's always a chance that they're doing something different for the 370Z vs. what they're doing for the G37. Like maybe they're using Ester oil as the factory-fill for the Z but holding out on the G for some bizarre reason. That's why I chose to characterize it as highly doubtful, vs. using the word "impossible." But I don't think it's slam-dunk obvious that they're using Ester oil for factory-fill either, as you seem to think it to be. I would be quite surprised -- pleasantly so -- if they're using the good stuff for the factory-fill.

The TSB is attached below. You can also read more about this TSB at myg37.com

ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator (amended 9/3/08) - MyG37
Nissan likes to cover ALL the bases with their TSB's and service manuals. By specifying the Nissan oil, they get a consistent test base...if it fails to fix the problem, in their eyes, they can rule out oil.

Makes sense from a consistency for diagnostics standpoint, more=so than from a requirement for use as the TSB may suggest to some.

kannibul 02-14-2010 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by semtex (Post 401202)
I'm talking about the thinness of the paint, actually. I also have a ClearBra, but what I've noticed (along with many other people on this forum if you take the time to search) is that when an unprotected surface does get a chip, it goes right down to the bare metal. I don't have too many chips thanks to my ClearBra, but where I do have them, every single one goes right down to bare metal. Not all cars are like that. Heck, even my 350 wasn't like that. Neither is my wife's Murano, now that I think about it.

In any case, let's not get too far off topic. All I stated was that most companies will choose the route that yields the greatest profits, and often time that means using or doing what is minimally required. That's just common business practice, especially in the current economic climate of heavy cost-cutting. Trust me, I'm a business analyst at IBM and see it every day. If we provide a customer with more than what's minimally required, we can actually get reprimanded for it because by doing so, we're failing to maximize company profits. (I hate my employer, btw.)
Thin paint is an asset - it weighs less. Look at a ferrari...same deal with what we're seeing with ours relative to orange peel. It's a byproduct of thin paint more than badly applied paint.

semtex 02-15-2010 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kannibul (Post 401766)
Thin paint is an asset - it weighs less. Look at a ferrari...same deal with what we're seeing with ours relative to orange peel. It's a byproduct of thin paint more than badly applied paint.
I suppose with that logic, you think corrosion is an asset too, right? After all, as various parts erode away, your car will weigh less. :rolleyes:

lovethe370z 02-16-2010 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by semtex (Post 402141)
I suppose with that logic, you think corrosion is an asset too, right? After all, as various parts erode away, your car will weigh less. :rolleyes:
:bowrofl: :icon18:

370Zsteve 02-16-2010 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by semtex (Post 400921)
I think this notion that Ester oil is the factory-fill is highly doubtful. I know, I know, I've heard the argument before: Nissan made this oil for this engine, so of course it comes from the factory filled with it. Per one of your previous posts in this thread:



Sounds reasonable, except for two things. First off, Ester oil is recommended, not required, and most corporations -- especially Nissan -- have a habit of doing what's minimally required only. Why? Because they're bean-counting tightwads (just look at how they've handled the oil-cooler issue). So I don't think we can assume that a company will fill their cars with a specific oil even if they specifically designed that oil for that car. This is especially true if said oil is more costly than the regular stuff they use. I know, that just doesn't seem right. But I've seen stranger decisions made, especially whenever there are a few bucks to be saved.

More significant, however, is the TSB for VVEL noise for the G37. The G37 has the exact same engine, so one would expect it to come with Ester oil as factory-fill as well, right? After all, Nissan designed the oil for this engine. Yet, on the Infiniti side of the house, there's a TSB for the issue of valve noise ( ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator). Guess what the TSB says the fix is? It's a two-parter: A software update, plus changing the oil over to Ester oil! Now, let's think about this. How would it make sense for part of the fix to be changing the oil over to Ester oil if it already came from the factory with the stuff in the engine? I mean c'mon, let's use a little common-sense deduction here. In spite of designing this oil for this engine, they're filling these engines up with the cheap stuff at the factory!

I do realize that there's always a chance that they're doing something different for the 370Z vs. what they're doing for the G37. Like maybe they're using Ester oil as the factory-fill for the Z but holding out on the G for some bizarre reason. That's why I chose to characterize it as highly doubtful, vs. using the word "impossible." But I don't think it's slam-dunk obvious that they're using Ester oil for factory-fill either, as you seem to think it to be. I would be quite surprised -- pleasantly so -- if they're using the good stuff for the factory-fill.

The TSB is attached below. You can also read more about this TSB at myg37.com

ITB08-028a - Noise from bank 2 VVEL actuator (amended 9/3/08) - MyG37
Oh yes, I know all about the TSB. It's also from 2008. I've never said I KNOW the factory fill is Nissan Ester. I've always maintained that those who say "there is no mention of Nissan Ester being used as factory fill" (specifically you and Modshack) can be countered with the opposite argument: "There is no mention of Nissan Ester NOT being used as factory fill".

IMO, Nissan would be crazy to develop an oil specifically for an engine and then not use it. And I wish someone, ANYONE from Nissan would put this tired old subject to rest. Their silence is deafening. Putting Mobil1 as factory fill in the GT-R doesn't clarify much, either. :rolleyes:

I actually sent a request to Nissan Corporate to clarify this in December. I never received a response. :ugh2:

370Zsteve 02-16-2010 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by semtex (Post 401050)
Because on some aspects, the build and material quality of our cars isn't high at all. Look at the quality of our paint. Do you seriously think it's high quality? I think you'll find that most on this forum consider it to be piss poor. Having said that, yes it's possible that ester isn't good for break-in. I don't know enough about conventional oils with ester additives to take a stand one way or the other though. (Here we go with a whole new can of worms! lol )
I'll give you points for paint quality, it's thin. (although I think that many here don't take into consideration that the tendency to chip is much higher on a low-nosed sports car). The quality of the build of this car is extremely high, I don't get your comment at all.

semtex 02-16-2010 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370Zsteve (Post 403789)
Oh yes, I know all about the TSB. It's also from 2008. I've never said I KNOW the factory fill is Nissan Ester. I've always maintained that those who say "there is no mention of Nissan Ester being used as factory fill" (specifically you and Modshack) can be countered with the opposite argument: "There is no mention of Nissan Ester NOT being used as factory fill".

IMO, Nissan would be crazy to develop an oil specifically for an engine and then not use it. And I wish someone, ANYONE from Nissan would put this tired old subject to rest. Their silence is deafening. Putting Mobil1 as factory fill in the GT-R doesn't clarify much, either. :rolleyes:

I actually sent a request to Nissan Corporate to clarify this in December. I never received a response. :ugh2:
Well, it's looking more and more like you might be right about them using it for factory-fill. I'm just waiting on final confirmation. Will keep you posted.

370Zsteve 02-16-2010 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by semtex (Post 401131)
Okay, been doing some more digging. It looks like Nissan released its ester oil in Sep. of '08. So yes, that does explain the TSB for the G37. Indeed, I also just noticed that the TSB only applies to '08 G37s. It doesn't apply to later model years, so maybe I'm completely wrong on this and they are using the stuff as factory-fill after all. It'd be great if they are. I wish there were a way to know for sure though. Actually, I know a certain someone who works for Nissan Corporate who might stand a chance of finding a definitive answer for us. I'll PM him and update this thread if and when I get a response.
Sweet! Light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for the detective work! Tell him I asked in December and got no response. :icon14:

WhiskeyHotel 02-16-2010 12:23 PM
I was at the Nissan dealer yesterday for my "free" oil change - first one. The service guys to a man knew ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Nissan Ester. They looked at me like I was from Mars.

What do they use? Mobil One.

semtex 02-16-2010 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370Zsteve (Post 403791)
I'll give you points for paint quality, it's thin. (although I think that many here don't take into consideration that the tendency to chip is much higher on a low-nosed sports car). The quality of the build of this car is extremely high, I don't get your comment at all.
You're right, the build quality, overall, is quite high on this car. But it's hard to produce a car that yields so much bang for the buck without cutting at least a corner or two, that's all I'm saying. i.e., it wouldn't surprise me if they shaved some cost by using non-premium fluids for the factory fill. To be clear, I'm not claiming that I know for a fact that they did this. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me if they did is all. Regarding the paint, it's not so much the tendency to chip that I'm flagging. As you rightly point out, it's quite normal for such a low-nosed sports car. What I find remarkable is the tendency to chip right to bare metal so easily. Thankfully, I don't have too many chips due to my ClearBra, but where I do have chips, every single one exposes bare metal (rather than some middle layer or even primer coat). So it would appear that this is an area where Nissan shaved some cost. I don't entirely blame them though, because again, with so much bang for the buck, it's only natural that they'd take a shortcut or two where they can to keep cost down. Indeed, I think Nissan is to be commended for not taking even more shortcuts. The Z is truly an outstanding value for the money, IMO.

FricFrac 02-16-2010 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 370Zsteve (Post 403791)
I'll give you points for paint quality, it's thin. (although I think that many here don't take into consideration that the tendency to chip is much higher on a low-nosed sports car). The quality of the build of this car is extremely high, I don't get your comment at all.
The paint on this car has been ultrasonically measured and its average - not thin - average. NXTAZEE can give you the precise measurements if you need.

...but back on topic. Does anyone really care if the manufacture's fill is Ester? If they did it would be simple enough to do an oil analysis on it and that would be the end of the discussion. I think we'd rather have the conjecture and food fight instead.....

jeffreyfranz 03-09-2010 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal 370Z (Post 56893)
The name is incorrect at that price. It should read Ankle-Grabbing Engine Oil 5W-30,
Royal Purple is cheaper and probably as good or better than the Nissan-branded stuff (after break-in). FWIW.

homeslice 03-10-2010 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreyfranz (Post 436266)
Royal Purple is cheaper and probably as good or better than the Nissan-branded stuff (after break-in). FWIW.
Amsoil is much better and lasts much longer and will come out to save a lot more money than using RP.

RP is great for people who rebuild their engines on a regular basis, like funny cars and stuff. But for most of us who use our cars to go back and forth to work, Amsoil is the way to go. It's the most cost-effective oil and there's not another oil on the market more convenient to use. They back up their oil with a written warranty. If anything happens from the results of their oil, they will pay to fix your engine. I don't see any other oil companies offering to do that.

SigPapa226 03-10-2010 02:58 PM
:stirthepot:
Penzoil Platinum beats Amsoil & Royal Purple hands down.

semtex 03-10-2010 03:16 PM
Hey speaking of Pennzoil, have you guys seen the new Pennzoil Ultra Synthetic? Their big thing is that 'nothing keeps your engine closer to factory clean'. I'm not sure if I really care about the cleanliness of my engine, unless they're equating clean to 'lack of wear'. What do you guys make of this new oil?

Pennzoil - Not just oil, Pennzoil

SigPapa226 03-10-2010 03:31 PM
It must be fairly new. I think I was at their site just last month & do not recall seeing the Ultra. I'm using Platinum in my pathfinder & my 300ZX TT.

semtex 03-10-2010 03:39 PM
Yeah it's new. I just started seeing print ads in the car mags this month.

jtroun 03-10-2010 04:03 PM
I've been putting Ester Oil in my 370 since I got it. The oil changes are $89, but at least they can't say I didn't put the recommended oil in my 370.

SigPapa226 03-10-2010 04:25 PM
Jtroun

See Scott at Fontana (Scott@FontanaNissan) & buy your oil from him and do it yourself for a lot less.

semtex 03-10-2010 06:34 PM
I've been using Redline. I just got my UOA results back from my last change at 9k miles. Posted the results here if anyone's interested -> http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...e-5w-30-a.html

Trips 03-10-2010 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by semtex (Post 439013)
I've been using Redline. I just got my UOA results back from my last change at 9k miles. Posted the results here if anyone's interested -> http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...e-5w-30-a.html
:stirthepot:

LiquidZ 03-10-2010 09:24 PM
My car came out of storage two nights ago. I'll hopefully be dumping the Nissan ester for some 0W-30 Signature Series from Amsoil within a few weeks.

homeslice 03-11-2010 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SigPapa226 (Post 438678)
:stirthepot:
Penzoil Platinum beats Amsoil & Royal Purple hands down.
Yeah, and I just LOVE how you showed proof of that.

NOT!

VCuomo 03-11-2010 01:20 PM
Why are a lot of you guys using 0W30 instead of the recommended 5W30? Just curious...

PapoZalsa 03-11-2010 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidZ (Post 439370)
My car came out of storage two nights ago. I'll hopefully be dumping the Nissan ester for some 0W-30 Signature Series from Amsoil within a few weeks.
Did you put Ester oil in your engine or you are assuming it came with it?




BTW, I went to my local dealer service department today. Asked the service guy, Do you guys use Ester oil? He looked at me like I was crazy. :icon14:

Then I asked, What oil do you guys use on the 370Zs? He grabbed the phone and called someone, comes back to me and says "Valvoline 5W30".

Then he told me a couple war stories about the oil, I was rolling. Told him thanks and left.

370Zsteve 03-11-2010 07:30 PM
:drama:

LiquidZ 03-11-2010 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapoZalsa (Post 440887)
Did you put Ester oil in your engine or you are assuming it came with it?




BTW, I went to my local dealer service department today. Asked the service guy, Do you guys use Ester oil? He looked at me like I was crazy. :icon14:

Then I asked, What oil do you guys use on the 370Zs? He grabbed the phone and called someone, comes back to me and says "Valvoline 5W30".

Then he told me a couple war stories about the oil, I was rolling. Told him thanks and left.
I dropped the factory fill, whatever it was, and replaced it with Nissan's oil prior to storage.

dalparadise 03-11-2010 08:40 PM
Got my first oil change today (free as part of initial service call). There is a small upcharge for Nissan Ester oil if you want it.

A Nissan Ester oil change costs $64 INCLUDING ALL TAXES AND FEES at Baker-Jackson Nissan in Houston. Compared to some stories I've heard, that is a real bargain.

I'll say this, my car was noticeably smoother and quieter after the Ester went in. My guess is that the factory fill is not Ester. This truly is the most dramatic change I've ever felt after an oil change. In my opinion, it's well worth it, even at full price.

gumpy 03-11-2010 10:43 PM
My dealer is willing to take 60 bucks of a 209 intermediate service fee if i provide the oil.

What champions. As to which oil I dunno yet, my local Autobahn has Motul, Pennzoil and Red Line... I guess I'll get the one with the best marketing claim about being the best... no seriously... i have no idea what i'll get and may just use the cheapest synthetic available considering i'll be sticking strictly to the 6 month service interval and I don't redline it...

semtex 03-12-2010 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy (Post 441165)
My dealer is willing to take 60 bucks of a 209 intermediate service fee if i provide the oil.

What champions. As to which oil I dunno yet, my local Autobahn has Motul, Pennzoil and Red Line... I guess I'll get the one with the best marketing claim about being the best... no seriously... i have no idea what i'll get and may just use the cheapest synthetic available considering i'll be sticking strictly to the 6 month service interval and I don't redline it...
You saw that I provided the UOA results for Redline at 9k miles, right?

Frozenr6 03-12-2010 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by semtex (Post 441538)
You saw that I provided the UOA results for Redline at 9k miles, right?
Has anybody else done the OA with other oils, I dont mean to be a jerk but as good as that report is, it is relatively useless without comparitive data?

RandyJamesA 03-12-2010 09:05 AM
Here's a quick question for the group; how can I tell for sure if the dealer put in Ester? Does it have a specific smell or color?

Matt 03-12-2010 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyJamesA (Post 441616)
Here's a quick question for the group; how can I tell for sure if the dealer put in Ester? Does it have a specific smell or color?
It should have a neon orange hue and smell sort of like asparagus.

(Unfortunately, no easy way to tell what type of oil the dealer used.)

370Zsteve 03-12-2010 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyJamesA (Post 441616)
Here's a quick question for the group; how can I tell for sure if the dealer put in Ester? Does it have a specific smell or color?
quick answer is "no".

370Zsteve 03-12-2010 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt (Post 441621)
It should have a neon orange hue and smell sort of like asparagus.

(Unfortunately, no easy way to tell what type of oil the dealer used.)
:facepalm: :hohoho:

:drama:

homeslice 03-12-2010 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VCuomo (Post 440162)
Why are a lot of you guys using 0W30 instead of the recommended 5W30? Just curious...
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Severe Service is the very best and is a 35,000 mile/1-year oil. Change the AMSOIL EAO oil filter every 25,000 miles/1-year. If you do not put 35,000 miles per year on then the 5W-30 (ASL) or the 10W-30 (ATM) are also excellent choices and both are 25,000 mile/1-year lubricants. All AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants meet and far exceed all manufacturer specifications as well as API Specifications.

The AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Severe Service is a racing oil and of a different chemistry than the 10W-30 and 5W-30. They often use the 0W-30 in the 800 Hp Ford/Roush Nascars as it has a shear strength better than most 50W oils and transfers heat more efficiently than heavier oils. Only about 60% of the engine cooling is done by the coolant and the rest is done by the oil via heat transfer. The 10W-30 and 5W-30 would not be good choices for racing. The 5W-30 ASL product code and 10W-30 ATM are both 25,000 mile/1-year oils where the 0W-30 is a 35,000 mile/1-year oil. The 4-ball wear test is also run at a different load, temp and RPM than the other 2 products so they cannot be compared in that area. The 0W-30 does not thin out to a 0W as it gets hot. It stays a 30W just like the 10W-30 and the 5W-30. They are ALL 30 weight oils and each one can be beneficial in a specific application. The 10W-30 is a better oil under certain instances for higher mileage engines as it has a lower volatility.

Matt 03-12-2010 10:00 AM
Quote:
If you do not put 35,000 miles per year on then the 5W-30 (ASL) or the 10W-30 (ATM) are also excellent choices and both are 25,000 mile/1-year lubricants.
You mean we have guys *planning* on driving 35k miles in a year?

Also, regardless of what type of oil I'm using, and what the manufacturer says, I'm not going an entire year without changing my oil. But that's just me.

Modshack 03-12-2010 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeslice (Post 441698)
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Severe Service is the very best and is a 35,000 mile/1-year oil.
Do you sell Mary Kay too?....Please let us know as we have some Wives/Girlfriends that have some miles on them and need to nip that wear in the bud.......

wishihadnav 03-12-2010 01:23 PM
^^hahaa.

Hi-Step'n370Z 03-12-2010 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalparadise (Post 440993)
my car was noticeably smoother and quieter after the Ester went in. My guess is that the factory fill is not Ester.
Is that true? Nissan doesn't put Ester Oil in at the factory???? Can anyone confirm this? I went through the owners manual, and could not find conformation one way or the other.

Seems like they should have put in Ester. Up to now, I was under the impression that they did!


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