How detrimental is it to...
 

So my question is, how detrimental is it to drive your car hard when its not warmed up? The reason I ask this question is because I recently had an encounter on the street that made me think that its maybe isnt so bad. To make a long story short. I work in a restaurant at a highend life style center, and valet parking is directly in front. Great cars consistenly get to stay on display with out moving to the actual parking lot, which brings me to my situation.

There was a Lambo Superleggera parked out front for around four hours. It just so happened that when I was leaving work, so was the Lambo. It was reasonably cool out(maybe 50 degrees or so), and when I pulled out on to the street he pulled along side me at the first light just outside the center.

I really wanted to punch it to see how badly he would pull away(with out breaking the speed limit of course, and because I keep it off the streets), but I knew my engine was cold and so was his, so I figured neither of us would gun it. Well I was completely wrong, when the light turned green he bogged for fraction of a second and then ripped away at an astonishing velocity. The sound was amazing, for the brief time he was next to me. I dont know how fast he got up to, but I would say he was doing well over triple digits in just a matter of a few seconds. I did my usual acceleration with out surpassing 3500k, and up to the speed limit.

So back to my question, how bad is it to beat on your car when its not up to proper operating temperature? This guy has a quater million dollar car and didnt hesitate to rip on it when it was cold. Mine cost a fraction of that and I always wait until the engine is warm before stomping on it. Is it just because he has the money to replace broken or worn parts, or is it really not that bad to do so because of modern technology and synthetic oils? Opinions?

I snapped a quick pic with the droid while at the light...

I was reading something about this this morning. What I can remember about the article that I read was that the modern engines are not like the old ones that need it to warm up for a few minutes to get the oil circulating and up to specific temp.

The modern engines work diferently so in a few seconds all the engine components will be well lubricated and ready to go.

Besides, dudes got a Lamborghini he can afford to maintain it.

its fine as long as its not done every time.

The need to warm the engine up stems primarily from the desire to get the motor oil up to temp. If you wail on your car while it's cold, you are essentially running 5 weight oil in the engine...

lol ya for some of those cars the cost to maintain them for a year would buy our car!

I don't know about lambo's but I know I was reading bugatti veyron owners (I know it's $1.7-2.7 million car) but they are paying around $250,000 - $300,000 a year for yearly maintenance!!:shakes head: that would buy some pretty nice houses around my area (the $250k to $300K).

Think about this. The difference between the $250k and $300k is more than our Z.

Nissan prevents the engine from revving too high when the engine temp is too low. But the engine warms up very quickly. I usually wait until my oil temp reaches 180.

That will take me probably all day now in the Winter.

Not on my 370Z. I can rev to 7500rpm right when I start it cold.

Well our owner's manual says when first starting to let it idle for 30 secs.

This is what a friend of mine told me... he tracks his car and is very knowledgeable:

not quoting but the point was that to let a car idle to warm up is not necessarily good for the car. When you start it up and begin to drive it right away you are getting more oil up into the engine right off the bat. if you let it idle you are not getting as much oil up and this causes friction, friction in an engine is bad (duh).

As to gunning it right off when the engine is cold, I would not recommend it as the oil is heavy and will not lubricate properly at a time of high friction.

So my advice (and I am no mechanic and a novice to the mechanics of engines) do not go to either extreme... idling is bad, and gunning it cold is bad.

My two cents

Confusion...ugh...

Insert foot into mouth.

:-X

hey man, like i said I wasn't quoting him, I could have misinterpreted what he said... we are all here to help each other out, not to put one another down :tiphat:

Just letting you known that you should inform your friend. I am simply trying to stop the spread of misinformation about things like this.

No harm no foul, just want you to understand how it works.

By doing what you said, you could actually do more harm than good.

Sorry if it came out the wrong way.

:tiphat:

three things i keep an eye on.

the engine revs higher for a bit, i wait till it drops below 1k, doesnt normally take long.
I move the shifter around, when really cold its really stiff, so i let the heat from the engine warm that up a bit.
the coolant temp to hit the third dot.

Generally in a combination of these is when i begin driving, but I still dont gun it. (heck i never really gun it on the streets ever, I shift at 3k rpm's and take my sweet time gettin there)

not sure if its correct, but its always made me feel better.

Was this at Westgate? That may have been me...:hello:

Sorry that's not really true. Oil thins as it gets hotter and thickens as it cools.

The viscosity of a 5W30 at 100F is around 60 cSt, and at 210F is around 10 cSt (higher number is thicker).

I think you were mislead by the numbers. The number followed by the W means that it is a Winter weight, which means it has the viscosity of that weight oil if it were at operating temperature (210F), but doesn't mean that it acts like a SAE 5 weight oil would at operating temperature while cold.

Now with the modern multi-weight oils there are some properties that are built in the help reduce the extremes in viscosity, but not so much that it can ever be level in viscosity or operate backwards.

You are a prime example of someone who doesn't have a clue about oil and lubrication and then spreads the misinformation. Wow!

Oil is thick when cold and thinner when hot. There is spalsh lubrication, boundary lubrication and hydrodynamic lubrication interacting inside an engine to provide its lubrication needs. Most wear occurs while the engine is cranking over during a cold start. I'll stop there because I'm not going to give a lesson on how an internal combustion engine is lubricated. Suggest you do some research before you spread misinformation.

No, you're running something thick as syrup and it doesn't lubricate as well, or pump NEARLY as well. In other words, you have more pressure at the pump and less up top and over the bearings.

No, you won't blow your car up the first time, but it's not a good habit at all. That is why many high-end cars have tach's that adapt to the running temp like the M series, etc.

+1

cSt is the only number worth reading regarding viscosity imo.

Well one of the main reason I warm the car is to heat the car inside during the Winter.

For the old lady since the SUV is outside the same plus the defroster.

During the other months if is not cold, 30 secs and I'm out the garage.

i think if you need to get out of the way of a runaway truck, you shouldn't care what your oil temperature is but you should take it easy and wait to have your 'fun' until the oil is warmed up.

i would also like to note that the car also pollutes the most when very cold because catalytic converters are doing the very least to reduce emissions when they are not warmed up. so all those eco nuts that don't know d1ck about cars who get in their cars and just drive away right away are polluting more than they think.

anyway, thats a side note. I also just like to think of it like this. would you like to get woken up, told to get out of bed and sprint 1/4 mile? i dont think so. obviously a car is a machine, but, personifying things sometimes helps.

Um. If you didn't go over 3500, you're not really running it hard.

No issue, as long as it's not mine. :icon17:

I don't think My Z will go fast when the engine is cold. Throttle response is very sluggish in cold weather until oil temps near 180. Granted, my car is parked in my icy cold garage for up to 5 days b/t drives.

Still, even after the oil temps are at normal levels, I typically won't get 100% throttle response until after I've shut off the engine and started it up again -- say, after a quick stop at the grocery store. I have noticed this more often in winter than summer.

Not knowing much about cars, I've attributed this behavior to the ECU perhaps trying protecting the engine. Am I right?

I also drive a 99 Mercury Sable. That car drives the same (slowly) regardless of the conditions.

This is the worst explanation I've ever heard. Oil get thicker as it warms up?

And by the way. Hi everyone. Long time reader. First time poster. Please continue.

when sitting beside a lambo at a red light it is never a good idea to gun your
car:driving::driving:

What exactly are you disagreeing with in my post?

I am disagreeing with the way you say "running the engine with 5-weight oil".

That is deceptive in that the oil is very thick when cold. cSt of most "X"-30 weight oils is around 60 when cold. When you heat them up, the cSt drops to around 9-11.

The way you presented it makes it sound like oil is thinner when its cold.

I apologize if my comment caused confusion. I meant it behaves as a cold 5W oil, giving it a (slightly) higher viscosity. I guess I should have fleshed that comment out more.


Not sure where you get the 60cSt number. It's usually below 20, at least for a 5W oil.

Viscosity Charts

Because it isn't an SAE-5 oil, it is an oil blend. A 5W30 isn't going to perform the same as a SAE-5 or an SAE-30, most of the time it is somewhere in between. It's properties are such that it can pass the minimum test for SAE-30, however there actually isn't any standardized test for Winter weight and most oils certainly wouldn't pass the test of SAE-5.

The viscosity numbers quoted (60 cSt @ 100F) is an average from actual manufacturer test data. On a cold start on a cold day it will be slightly higher, probably around 80-90.

I HAVE NO CLUE AS TO WHAT I AM DOING. With that said, I still give the car a 30 second warm up and then take it easy for the first mile, check where the temp is, and determine wether or not to raise the rev's.

On cold starts I tend to let the idle come down to normal or at least sub 1krpm before going anywhere and then keep it under 4k rpm until temperature gets to around 180.

I've had the issue a few times where I really want to play with someone when the car's cold and I haven't done it...I feel your pain.

^Same here. I try to be as gentle as possible when it is still completely cold but as it warms up, I generally increase the rpms and or throttle that I would allow and would never give it WOT until the temps hit 170 at least.

Maybe I'm confused. I was under the impression that an SAE 5W-30 met the 5W low temp test, as well as the 30 weight 100C test, and behaved as in the following chart:

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...a/BP_Fig_1.gif

I know there's a lot of misinformation out there though, and I probably got some of it-- I won't pretend to know everything about oil. I am genuinely curious about how they rate the winter oils, if there is no standardized test. I was under the impression that the timed orifice method was used for the 100C test, and then it had to meet a standard at 40C, based on the cranking/pumping characteristics.

In a perfect world they would want the oil to have the ideal properties of both, both the reality is that it is currently impossible. Trade offs have to be made at either end. Given that the oil spends most of its live at operating temperature they make a few more trade offs in the lower range.

I understand that, but I thought it had to meet the cranking and pumping specs of the lighter weight oil at 40C?

Why hasn't this turned into a lambo vs z thread?!

They do. But it doesn't have to pass the full SAE test regiment that they do at operating temperature. The cranking and pumping tests aren't very tough, basically just there to assure that your oil won't turn to molasses at lower temperatures. It's the other standard tests such as the API (currently SN standard) that are more important and test the wear resistance and longevity of the oil.