What!!!! No ashtray

Nick911sc · 03-25-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

Its not the bad for you, the person smoking, that they care about really. Its the problems they are doing to those around them that dont smoke. Kill yourself, those that smoke, but not those that dont. You think that little girl in the car I saw had a choice on them smoking and hurting her young and growing lungs? If they do that enough she will have problems even if she doesnt learn from them and smoke.

Oh i totally agree with you 100%. But problems such as those aren't fixed by taxing the product. A awful parent poisoning their child with a $10 pack of cigarettes is no different than an awful parent poisoning their child with a $5 pack.

Zsteve · 03-25-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick911sc

Oh i totally agree with you 100%. But problems such as those aren't fixed by taxing the product. A awful parent poisoning their child with a $10 pack of cigarettes is no different than an awful parent poisoning their child with a $5 pack.

I know it was a joke about raising the taxes to support the new health care plan it just gotta little side tracked.

kannibul · 03-25-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick911sc

Oh i totally agree with you 100%. But problems such as those aren't fixed by taxing the product. A awful parent poisoning their child with a $10 pack of cigarettes is no different than an awful parent poisoning their child with a $5 pack.

Except a $5 tax on top of each pack sold would go a long way towards paying for the expenses that the user or their child may face when it comes to smoking related illnesses.

1 pack a day, $5 x 365 x 30 years smoking = approx $55K. That's not even close to what radiation costs...but it'd help.

Nick911sc · 03-25-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Except a $5 tax on top of each pack sold would go a long way towards paying for the expenses that the user and their child may face when it comes to smoking related illnesses.

1 pack a day, $5 x 365 x 30 years smoking = approx $55K. That's not even close to what radiation costs...but it'd help.

Which is why the govt shouldn't be adding the tax on top. It takes that money out of their pocket. It's not like they give the money back if you get cancer.

370Zsteve · 03-25-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick911sc

Which is why the govt shouldn't be adding the tax on top. It takes that money out of their pocket. It's not like they give the money back if you get cancer.

Tobacco taxes aren't going anywhere but up, Nick.

Nick911sc · 03-25-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

Tobacco taxes aren't going anywhere but up, Nick.

I agree

I'm just against taxes in general regardless of the item haha

kannibul · 03-25-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick911sc

I agree

I'm just against taxes in general regardless of the item haha

Do you like driving on nice roads with your Z?

Do you like the police coming to your house when you call them (or going to a neighbor's house when they are unruly) or responding to an accident when you wreck your Z?

Do you like the fire department showing up and putting out a fire that will consume all of your possessions without regard?

There's a lot of things that taxes pay for that have a huge benefit.

Nick911sc · 03-25-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Do you like driving on nice roads with your Z?

Do you like the police coming to your house when you call them (or going to a neighbor's house when they are unruly) or responding to an accident when you wreck your Z?

Do you like the fire department showing up and putting out a fire that will consume all of your possessions without regard?

There's a lot of things that taxes pay for that have a huge benefit.

lol I understand that. I'm not talking about municipal taxes on such services. I think we should just drop it before this thread gets out of hand haha.

kannibul · 03-25-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick911sc

Which is why the govt shouldn't be adding the tax on top. It takes that money out of their pocket. It's not like they give the money back if you get cancer.

Who's pocket? The smoker's? Simple - quit smoking. Easy enough fix. Make it cost enough (by taxing it) and people will stop doing it, and the problems caused by it will go away.

The end result is that we're healthier for it, making our healthcare costs go down, which then the money "gained" by taxing won't be nessicary. On the other hand, those that do smoke, end up costing ALL OF US more money by having higher premiums - might as well try and offset it by placing a tax on the items causing the problem.

Zaggeron · 03-25-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Who's pocket? The smoker's? Simple - quit smoking. Easy enough fix. Make it cost enough (by taxing it) and people will stop doing it, and the problems caused by it will go away.

The end result is that we're healthier for it, making our healthcare costs go down, which then the money "gained" by taxing won't be nessicary. On the other hand, those that do smoke, end up costing ALL OF US more money by having higher premiums - might as well try and offset it by placing a tax on the items causing the problem.

Well I for one don't want to be made "healthier" against my will. Oh and get your facts straight. It's a little publicized fact but smokers have lower total health care costs. The average age at which a smoker gets lung cancer is 72 and typically they don't live long enough to have long extended illnesses.

Why stop at cigarettes? Why not tax to extinction or outright outlaw all sorts of risky behavior -- hang gliding ... no way ..the nanny state says people having accidents hang gliding will raise premiums. Like fast cars ... sorry ...fast cars are dangerous. Like your whoppers -- you gotta be kidding ... saturated fat is a mega killer.

It's a slippery slope and it's inconsistent with the notion of individual responsibility for which this country is known.

If they are going to outlaw smoking because the non-smokers are getting annoyed at smelling a little smoke, then they should also outlaw wearing Axe body spray or old lady perfume in public places -- that crap is way more noxious smelling than a bit of stale tobacco smoke

kannibul · 03-25-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

If they are going to outlaw smoking because the non-smokers are getting annoyed at smelling a little smoke, then they should also outlaw wearing Axe body spray or old lady perfume in public places -- that crap is way more noxious smelling than a bit of stale tobacco smoke

You deal with perfume scents for mere seconds.

Cigarette smoke lasts for days, weeks, even years.

Zaggeron · 03-25-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

You deal with perfume scents for mere seconds.

Cigarette smoke lasts for days, weeks, even years.

What are you talking about. Smoke actually dissipates rather quickly. Most of what people are complaining about is the odor of tobacco in the area. The odor is not smoke and the odor itself has no harmful effects.

Anyway I don't know why you assume you have to deal with perfume scents for mere seconds ... ever sit in a restaurant behind someone whose perfume made you sick ...or ride the bus next to a kid wearing the cologne of the day. Or stand in line at the bank or DMV in front of someone who had bad tuna salad for lunch.

Stale tobacco funk is not the best smell in the world, but it's not the worst either. People stink for all kinds of reasons. People should just get over it.

kannibul · 03-25-2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

Well I for one don't want to be made "healthier" against my will. Oh and get your facts straight. It's a little publicized fact but smokers have lower total health care costs. The average age at which a smoker gets lung cancer is 72 and typically they don't live long enough to have long extended illnesses.

Why stop at cigarettes? Why not tax to extinction or outright outlaw all sorts of risky behavior -- hang gliding ... no way ..the nanny state says people having accidents hang gliding will raise premiums. Like fast cars ... sorry ...fast cars are dangerous. Like your whoppers -- you gotta be kidding ... saturated fat is a mega killer.

It's a slippery slope and it's inconsistent with the notion of individual responsibility for which this country is known.

If they are going to outlaw smoking because the non-smokers are getting annoyed at smelling a little smoke, then they should also outlaw wearing Axe body spray or old lady perfume in public places -- that crap is way more noxious smelling than a bit of stale tobacco smoke

Also, post your proof they have lower overall healthcare....

Unless you're considering the ones who die quickly after being diagnosed, if they're diagnosed...

*cough cough...must be gettin' a cold...draaaag*

:epicfacepalm:

Zaggeron · 03-25-2010, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Also, post your proof they have lower overall healthcare....

Unless you're considering the ones who die quickly after being diagnosed, if they're diagnosed...

*cough cough...must be gettin' a cold...draaaag*

:epicfacepalm:

How about an article from the New England Journal of Medicine

NEJM -- The Health Care Costs of Smoking

"Conclusions If people stopped smoking, there would be a savings in health care costs, but only in the short term. Eventually, smoking cessation would lead to increased health care costs."

I'm just doing my part to save your tax dollars...

shadow2k · 03-25-2010, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Who's pocket? The smoker's? Simple - quit smoking. Easy enough fix. Make it cost enough (by taxing it) and people will stop doing it, and the problems caused by it will go away.

The end result is that we're healthier for it, making our healthcare costs go down, which then the money "gained" by taxing won't be nessicary. On the other hand, those that do smoke, end up costing ALL OF US more money by having higher premiums - might as well try and offset it by placing a tax on the items causing the problem.

Ya know...I could easily apply those same sentiments to the Z itself, or any other sports car. Maybe we should levy a 40% tax on sports cars too? Maybe everyone should drive around in Nissan Versa in full body armor because its safer? Hey, lets just stop polluting the world and everyone rides bicycles!

No, that wouldn't be convenient for you, would it... Let's just focus on other people's vices instead.