I have always thought that for the price, those 03-04 SVT Cobras would eat a new Camaro alive. Very close to the sam HP and torque, but about 300 pounds less weight; and it has an IRS! The Terminator!! I think that is how they referred to that Cobra.....

They are mad because their 8 cyl, the GT makes barely more HP than the 6 cyl camaro and less hp than the 6cyl Z. Now, that would be fine if the rustang were a much better deal money-wise, but it's only 2K cheaper than the Z and is actually like, 5K more than the base camaro. I will also go out on a limb and say the stang will be lower quality than either. I'd say, that's a sucker's car.

What Ford needs to do is put some wider rubber on the back of their anything highter then a base GT...I think I read somewhere that the GT500 KR was really hurt, acceleration-wise, because it couldn't hook up with such narrow tires in the rear...

Overall, ford, gm, chev have got to step up to the game...
It's about time to think about the buyers wallets not just theirs.
And invest in some decent engineers PLEASE! :ugh2:

The suspension on the 05+ GTs were modeled after the 93+ F-bodies. That being said, I was a bit disappointed to see them put 235's on the Mustang GT. Then even more disappointed to find out that you had to buy 15K more worth of Ford Power Failure to get wider tires.

I don't mean to bring it down to this (especially since I REALLY disagree with what I'm about to say) but Ford pushes Mustangs below the "premium" trims (like cobra) to girls because they think that girls won't care. Ford's thinking is that girls will think the Mustang is "cute" so they'll buy it.

I fortunately know lots of girls that are GREAT drivers and know better than to buy a Mustang. But not everyone grows up with a car-obsessed family.

Whatever their marketing strategy is, it seems to be working for them. By not catering to the fanboys, they are laughing all the way to the bank

^^^ Cheers!

Yeah, I dont see a lot of women driving camaros, but damn do they love that mustang.

<


....

We forgive you for being a girl ;)

it seems like the camaro forum guys, for the most part are reasonable and arent complete fanboys.

SOME of them are reasonable. Just like SOME of them are saying the Camaro will out-handle the Corvette and the 370z.

Yea I agree with you that ford probably pushes it to girls or women. I see a lot of them driving it. You don't see to many women driving camaros, trans am's.

For the newer stangs, do they make corbra versions of them? Or is it just for 03 and 04.

I honestly don't know how they market it. I think I've seen one commercial for it over the last 4 years, and it was some teenager peeling out in a empty parking lot with his dad. With the way it sells, I would almost dare to say advertising is not necessary. http://www.vwfixx.com/forums/style_e...ault/shrug.gif

What a good debate...
I don't know if I want kids when I get married.
Talking on that board gives me a headache and hurts when I see those posts.
It's like talking to little high school kids.

I wouldn't even consider kids till I was like, 30. Since 30 is the new 20, there is no point rushing into s---. If you don't live enough before having kids, you may have regrets.

I honestly don't know where the new S197 Mustangs are girl cars argument came from.

I think you are getting the V6 version confused with the GT.

03-04 where the only ones with that power. Ford doesn't currently offer an SVT Cobra right now. Just the Shelby line-up.

There were SVTs before the 03-04s, but they weren't all that fast. Maybe 14.3 in the 1/4 mile.

I want kids. 2 for sure, maybe more if I can afford it. NONE of them will touch ANY of my cars!

I thought I remembered hearing that those cars broke all the time because of the power. Not sure what was breaking though, drive shafts? Rear ends?

I don't believe that at all. The Cobra was nearly indestructible. Now, people who dragged the car would swap out the IRS for an SRA, so I would assume people were breaking half-shafts, if anything, but all in all, the car was called a terminator for a reason.

Yeah, it's been so long since I remember hearing it, I didn't want to say it as fact. It would make sense that they would consistently break half shafts however. Still, a very mean car.

DING! That's correct.

The 4.6 32valve motor that they put in those cars were FULLY BUILT! LOL! They put down loads of power and stayed completely reliable. Most just did the package deal (smaller S/C pullie, bigger innercooler, and tune) and did VERY good numbers. Fact is that those motors were great motors for making easy power. The 5.0 Fox bodies also had forged bottom ends! I'm pretty impressed with that stuff. (Although, a friend of mine with a bone-stock 5.0 just snapped the crank somehow. We're not sure how he did it.)

I'd like to see GM come up with ANYTHING close to what the SVT 4.6L did. Problem is that GM cuts as many corners as possible. I used to be a GM fanboy, but now I can't stand them. I'd still love to own a '95 Zr1, but in the end, GM is a dead cause. If they pulled a 180 on their politics, got less greedy, spent more money on quality and less on design, and stopped getting lazy with their engineering, I'd like them again.

I would just to like to clarify on something... SVT is indeed still around. Shelby just stuck his name on their car.

Has anybody seen the cam covers on the new Cobra? Says "powered by SVT" right on them.

That interesting. I didn't know they did that. I knew SVT was still there, just didn't think they were doing anything for the Mustangs.

I don't seem to hear anything about SVT anymore.

Oh yes people, SVT is still around. Today, SVT no longer has the presence as it did with the 03-04 Cobras and Lightning trucks but it is still around. Take a look at the SVT Raptor that was just released. It is a firm belief of mine that if it was an SVT Cobra instead of a Shelby Cobra, it would sell a hell of a lot better.

Also, the GT500 motor in itself is a "terminator" too. Evo performance (search youtube) swapped out the stock S/C pulley to one that produces upwards of 21 psi and a shot of nitrous to boot. Took it like a champ and ran 9's and 10's all day long. No change of internals either.

P.S. I'm a closet Muscle fan.

Yeah, you wouldn't need to change the internals. Those motors are unstoppable. I was waiting for someone to run an SVT in the gumball.

I love muscle cars just like I love performance exotics and imports. A car is a car to me, no matter where it comes from. I have those American roots when it comes to muscle cars, but I'm VERY into advanced technology too. My Dad had a 69 RS SS with a 396. I wish he still had it. I've gone through a few muscle cars too. But I think I need something different. Nissan has great build qualities in their cars, and I'll be sticking with them for a while. My daily needs to be reliable while I build my other cars.

I definetly wasnt defending them...HA! But I. getting your sarcasm....and agree :D

^ Not to go off topic but I love your avatar!

SC ftw

I love the picture in his signature.

yeah its pretty cool haha

Biggest thing you aren't taking into concideration: real hp/tq from each engine.
Nissan rates the VQ at 332hp/270tq, however dyno's reveal 270whp-290whp.
Chevy rates the LS3 422hp/408tq. However, dyno's reveal 370-390whp

Roughly the Chevy LS3, if rated like Nissan rates the VQ would be rated around 449hp/434tq.

Also what about 2nd and 3rd gears?

And as others have said, the Camaro will have fully independent suspension.

Overall the Z will probably brake better, handle better and have a better interior than the Camaro. If all you car about is straight line speed than go with the Camaro because it's a proven fact that the LS engines respond very very well to mods. The VQ is much harder to extract power from per $$.

^^^ Don't forget about drive train loss and what not. GM drivetrains suck when it comes to keeping power. They're very heavy stock and not very efficient.

But yes, my numbers were for REAL tq. Power can't be messured the same way, unfortunately. There's a completely different math you need to use, however, you can still do the math with BHP.

But I'm sure you know it's not power that wins 1/4 mile races, it's torque. That was my goal, to show how the Z puts down more torque to the wheels per pound that the car weighs than the Camaro. Arguing beyond first gear is pointless because the Camaro will not have a close-ratio transmission. GM gears are always tall. The Z will have short gears up to 5th, so it's a crap shoot since the LSx motors make more torque at lower RPMs.

Yes, I know LSx motors make power very easily with a few little mods here and there. I used to own one. Just an intake, long tubes and a tune would give you 40RWHP with those motors. I'm all about straight line AND the twisties, which is why I made my decision, although, if it I were getting another American car, it'd be the Challenger, not a GM. I will NEVER buy another GM until their environmental and political goals align with mine.

True but since there are wtq numbers available, that already takes drivetrain loss into account. The Z has a decent disadvantage.

Also I agree with your last point. Why would I buy back my own money we're giving to them?

Plus I'd rather have a Z from everything known so far.

Where have you seen WTQ numbers??? I've only seen crank.

Search for LS3 vette dyno's for wtq numbers and G37 or 370z for wtq for the VQ37HR

Interesting read. IMO, both cars (stock), will be neck n neck on the streets. The Z has a significant weight advantage while the SS has a huge amount of HP/TQ. The SS is close to 2 tons but has the TQ to pull it. All this bickering will be solved by the summer when both cars are out & lined up. I cant wait.

I wouldn't say there is much (if any) bickering here, now the camaro board ... those dudes are bickering.

Corvette Drivetrain is NOT the same as the Camaros. Not by any means. Not the same Tranny, and will not have the same diff, suspension, etc... Not to mention that Corvettes use Torque Tubes so that the tranny is mounted in the back like a transaxle. The Camaro wheels are heavier and taller (reducing tq to the ground) also.

There will be significant differences between wheel tq between the Vettes and the Camaros. Trust me.

Couldn't have said it better myself!