According to that edmunds article the V6 is not even in the picture with most sport car V6's out there. 0-60 in 6.1 sec and 1/4 Mile in 14.1?? :gtfo2:

Lol, they must have thought everyone would just be buying their 6cyl because of gas prices. Any remorse not waiting for the camaro now Tin? :rofl2:

Ouch, GM needs to take a lesson from Nissan.

Dont tell the camaro guys that. All they know is their 6 is the most powerful 6 they have ever had! And since it has high HP, it must be fast.

I think that GM underestimated the amount of enthusiast orders initially, which of couse will be the SS/V8 model. It's the one that I would have purchased too. From what I read over there even people with deposits may not see the cars they ordered until next year, as GM does not have the capacity to make that many SS models, plus I would imagine some of the dealers are going to slap a $10k++ mark upon some of the first models they receive.

So in reality for an average Joe to buy an SS at MSRP might take 1-2 years. Who knows, by then I might be ready for a new car! :icon17:

I remember seeing a post a couple weeks ago where the sales numbers of the camaro were reported, and quite the opposite of what one may expect, the "top dog" most expensive model they have (2SS RS) is the best seller, with the 6-banger in last place. I'm sure the GM folks were like :eek2:

Hi guys, my first post in this site.

I've been very active over in the Camaro forums. I've come very close to ordering a 2010 Camaro SS.

I was also pretty amazed by how many guys over in the Camaro forum think the Camaro SS will handle as well as the 370z.

I posted over a Camaro5.com to try to bring them down to Earth.

The 370z only weighs 3350 lbs and runs on 275 series rear tires (Touring).
The Camaro SS weighs 3900 lbs and runs on 275 series rear tires.
So which car do you think will handle the best? That along with the fact that the 370z is pulling .98 G's - .99 G's on the skid pad pretty much seals the deal.
There's no way the Camaro SS is going to pull those kind on numbers on the skid pad.

Drag strip- Camaro SS > 370Z
Road course- 370Z > Camaro SS

^^Welcome!

Welcome, and thanks for bringing realistic, analytical-thought with you! I was a fellow GTO owner myself, great car!

Welcome SBG, I have been a member over there for a few months. I think it's great that the discussion had been very civil overall. Many times those type of threads degrade into a juvenille rant. I still am very interested in the Camaro and will definitely go check it out whenever it finally comes out.

We will be driving 390Zs by then! :rofl2:

I jest. The camaro is a good looking car ... from what I heave seen of pictures and sitting in a (now) 3 year old concept car.

Maybe, maybe not. I wish the z had more tq.

This is from the camaro5.com website. This is one of guy said regarding the weight of the car:


The LS3 Camaro has 430hp 424tq, the z has 332hp and 270tq, the Camaro has 98hp and 154tq more than the z.

The Camaro weighs 3900 and the z weighs 3300. Torque is the name of the game, its the amount of twisting force that is applied to the rear axle. Hp is a measurement of energy being created, not actual twisting force.

Camaro - 3,900 pounds
.110 hp per pound of weight.
.108 ftlbs of tq per pound of weight.

370Z - 3,300 pounds
.106 hp per pound of weight.
.081 ftlbs of tq per pound of weight.

You can clearly see that the Camaro will easily kick the little z's ***, this is not a "drivers race".

I also read in their forum that the camaro they used was the v6 engine and its not the regular production car. So, when the actual production car is released and use the SS model, maybe the actual skid pad maybe better or the same as the 370z.:gtfo2:

That argument fools you into thinking it's good because it applies logical math, however, this argument assumes that handling is simply based on a power to weight ratio. Admittedly, that's an important aspect but it's not the only aspect. Suspension, balance, steering, reinforcements, length, width, aerodynamics, tire/rime size and etcetera all come into play.

Also, not to split hairs over 4 hp, but it was offically announced Friday that the camaro has 426hp with torque not being mentioned.

One last point as I beat this debate to death, as a former camaro/firebird owner, I can tell you that owning one of those does not put you in a the class of the Z cars. What I mean by that is, my camaro looked exactly the same as the one the trailer park people were driving, the moms trying to keep their youth, and the kids who cheese out those cars. Because of the Zs price-point, you're in a different class with a particular breed of people, and you generally don't have to worry about seeing the cholo with spinners on his Z sitting next to you at a light making your car look less classy.

It amazes me how blind many seem to be to the whole weight issue. 400+ lbs is a huge big deal on a car. It really affects how the car handles not just its power to weight ratio. Even the Z has been chastized about its weight - the GTR as well. Nissan did a fantastic job shaving weight off - unfortunately there was a lot of regulations (saftey first of course) that added most of that weight back on. I'd rather have the 100 lbs lighter car than another 10HP...

Its just a big bench racing thread anyhow - how can you compare results on a pre-production car. You can vastly affect numbers by just changing the tires. There will be no comparisons until the car is actually released....

Its nice to see the racing technology coming down to these cars. I mean the ZR1 is an amazing car as is the GTR - super cars within reach. Now the Z is hanging with the Cayman S and even the $250K DB9 is very close in performance. If the Camaro is in the same class that's pretty cool that auto technology has come so far.

....regardless there is some interesting commentary and generally speaking most ppl are respectful. Nice to see :)

i'm an active member on camaro5.com ;)

tbh, i'm really sick of those "car X vs. car Y" threads... just buy whatever you like. I won't be racing the car anyway so I don't care.

i'm personally looking into either the V6 camaro or the Z. I prefer the Camaro atm because I have to drive whichever car I choose in the winter as well and it's a bit less $$$.

I want to enter another car in this mix!
Mercedes S550 4Matic.

Check out these stats, maybe I should take 'em to the Camaro forum since they seem so number happy. :)

382 horsepower and 391 lb-ft of torque, with 75% of peak torque available at just 1,000 rpm

0 to 60 mph in just 5.4 seconds.

Curb Weight - 4,630 lbs (what about 700 pounds more than the Chevy?)

Actually I agree with Frost about the class of people and you also have to take into consideration the build quality.

Ok what is this camaro>370z on the 1/4 mile? Trap speed yes the camaro is trapping 108 but still 13.3 same as the 370z with a driver not really beating on the car, trap speed so far on the z is 105.7 motor trend. This is done with WAY less torque what 154 ftlb less and 90 or so hp less. To me Nissan is deffinitely ahead of the American "beast" that is coming out.

Congrats on your new Z. How much did you get it for? Where you able to negotiate and bring down on the price?

We are comparing apple to oranges. Having more HP and Torque does nothing to make a car handle better.


My arguement was in the handling department (not straight line speed). I think most will agree the Camaro will have an advantage at the drag strip. But on a road course or racing in the twisties, the 370z will have the advantage.

The Camaro's 3900 lbs will really hurt its handling abilities. The Camaro SS runs similarly sized tires as the 370z, but it weighs 500+ lbs more. So which car do you think will handle better and get around a track faster?

You're forgetting a VERY important factor in this math: GEARING!

Just because you make the power/tq at the flywheel doesn't mean that you're getting all that to the ground.

The Camaro's final gear is a 3.45 (that's bigger than the non-SS trims which are 3.27). That being said, the Z has 3.64 (I believe) and that's going to increase the amount of torque to the ground for the Z over the Camaro.

Also, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears are on the 6-speed used in the Camaro SS are 3.01, 2.07, and 1.43 (respectively). The ratios will have a lot to do with first gear launching... Keep in mind that the Camaro - weighing in at 3900LBs - will need a very big first gear (like 4.0) to get off the line that fast.

Also, in the twisties, torque is actually a bad thing. They can talk about how the Camaro uses the G8 chassis, but we're still talking about a near 2 ton car with small tires that are likely garbage (since all GM OEM tires lately are garbage) and suspension that will be design for the 1/4 mile. I used to be a GM fanboy and I used to own F-bodies. But I know numbers well too. Fact is that (besides the build quality and crappy interior on the Camaro), the Z will be superior even if the Camaro DOES beat it in the 1/4. If the numbers are that close for the 1/4, than the Camaro doesn't stand a chance against the Z at the GT tracks.

In addition, it will DEFINITELY be a driver's race. I've raced for MANY years and can tell you that it usually comes down to the driver when the numbers are this close.

But for arguments sake, lets run the numbers: (EDITED: GOT THE Z's NUMBERS)

Camaro SS: 408tq * 3.45 * 3.01 = 4236.876 (First gear) <--- Notice the Tq number is corrected here, it is not 424, it's 408.

370z: 270 * 3.794 * 3.692 = 3782.01096 (First gear)

NOW do the math on tq/lbs:

Camaro: 1.09lbstq/1Lbs weight

370z: 1.18lbstq/1Lbs weight

The Z CLEARLY has more torque per pound. But the numbers are still very close and the Camaro has the benefit of a live axle vs. IRS. That being said, it is DEFINITELY a drivers race and will certainly come down to the wire with both cars.

I got my information from:
http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-p...1-15-08-a.html
AND
http://krang.superchevy.com/features...ifications.pdf <--- Assuming that these are correct.

Camaro has an IRS.

That aside, I do agree about the gearing. People never think about the gearing.

^^^ I also updated the numbers in my last post...

The Camaro finally got IRS!?!? That's lame. The live axle was WAY better for racing.

:ohsnap1:

I think the Z takes the practicality out of consideration. I would say that most but def not all buy American Muscle because it does come with the back seat. If you buy the Z its because thats what you want and you either have another car for passengers or you don't care about passengers lol.

I plan to get one cause I fall in both categories I don't care about passengers and I want one. I hate when my friends try to hop in my Spyder and I have a 2+2 I thought about the G37 but all that would be is one extra passenger cause nobody would get behind me. Though I do not mind the extra trunk space.

Same for me... I have no desire to transport people around. As far as I'm concerned, there is only me when I'm driving. Passengers will never be a consideration in my cars until I have a kid, which isn't for at least 4 years. And even then, I'll still have my "fun" car.

I won't buy another GM product. They're complete garbage when it comes to build quality and they make them poor quality on purpose so they can make more money on warranty work. To me, that's a backwards business model, and it only deter me from buying their cars.

WoW confusing LOL. You should make that arguement on the 2009 Camaro 2010 Camaro New Camaro forums, news, reviews, wallpapers, pricing - Camaro5.comwebsite. But were talking about street racing. Most non pro race's takes place on the regular streets which is the 1/4 mile. It would of been nice if the z had more TQ. Other than that the car looks amazing:lezbun:

You can get more tq. easily.
Just gonna cost you! :tup:

Yea thats true. I here its harder to get more TQ out of car than HP.
But it would of been nice if it had like 320 TQ

Technically, although the Z doesn't produce as much Tq at the crank as the Camaro, it does produce MORE torque at the wheels per each pound the car weighs... That's where it WILL make a difference in the 1/4 mile. I'd put my money on the Z beating the Camaro!

I'm a really good 1/4 mile driver (since I used to street race a bit - wink wink) and I'll tell you that I'll likely make that car beat the Camaro. With an intake and tune, it will seal the deal.

Live Axel vs. IRS

IRS = Independent Rear Suspension
IRS is good for handling (depending on the car) when it comes to GT racing. However, you lose power and it's harder to put more power to the ground through this system.

Live Axle is when the rear suspension is not Left-Right independent. Every motion on one side (up, down, forward, and backwards) effects the other. However, this system is MUCH better for drag racing (1/4 mile type) because it's easier to put the power to the ground evenly through both rear tires. When the car "squats" back during a launch, the power is applied evenly.

Most cars that have the transmission in the rear (Corvettes, Porsches, Lotus, etc) will generally have IRS. Apparently up until the 5th generation of F-Bodies (Camaros, Firebirds) the F-body had a Live Axle making them very good for drag racing.

I would also like to add that an IRS will give you a more comfortable ride.

im sure this has been said already but the camaro would probably have the z in a straight line drag but around the track or on the side of a mountain through the twists n turns (where it counts) the camaro would wobble and bobble like every other terrible american made car (sure a COUPLE are good but consider there are probably (pulling this number out of the air) some 60 american cars out there and only 2 are good :icon14: .. i know those figures are probably well off but whatever the case. the europeans and japanese own perfomance, quality and reliability in the car market respectively.

:bowrofl:
You are right on the dot!
But... We won't know until the actually comparison occurs, which im sure motor trend or some other magazine will do!
All I know is that either the camaro or z will start bragging. :shakes head:
Let's all be friends, even though I know who would win! :stirthepot:

Honestly, I really DO think the Z will win in the 1/4... Power to weight and Tq to weight ratios are all in the Z's favor. Like I said, this will DEFINITELY be a driver's race.

One thing's for sure, it's going to be close no matter the outcome.

Not worth my time. I used to own an F-body and I hung out with LOTS of people that owned them. I admit, I was the same way, but these guys are fanboys. They don't want to listen to numbers or reason. If the Z put down the EXACT same power, they'd still argue that the Camaro would win. It's really no use dealing with them. They're pretty hard headed. I'm in Socal Muscle Club and they're all somewhat pissed at me that I'm going with another Z. LOL

Needless to say, I'm not going to waste my time yelling at a wall.

LOL. Yea your right when it comes to fanboys those type of people are not very open minded when it comes to certain things. That's why i don't like fan boys all that much.
I guess we will have to wait and see when the camaro SS comes rolling out and all the car mags starts testing the camaroo!
It would of been nice added touch to have the TQ more closer to the HP right from the factory though.
By the way do you have the new 370Z?
What do you think about the new Stangs?

Lol @ the new stangs... :shakes head:

I've been lurking on some mustang forums as we all waited to hear about the 2010 model, and they are all pretty pissed about it. Rustang fanboys are the most die hard people I know, so for them to start talking s- about the stang is a big deal.

Why are they all pissy about their poopnies? I think it's the best looking one compared to the previous gens.

I also was shocked to find out that the stinkies were only 5 speed. I always that the cars were 6sp.

Nope... Only 2 years of the SVTs (03 and 04) were made 6 speeds, not by choice, but by necessity. The 03-04 SVTs were built 4.6 liters with 390HP. The 5-speeds that were in the GTs would have exploded under that much power. So the "Special Vehicle's Team" had to put in T56 transmissions to handle the power. The same transmission that was already in all the 93+ Trans Ams and Camaros. LOL! However, the 03-04 SVTs are VERY respectable cars. As much as I'm not a fan of Mustang, those Cobra's are not to be messed with stock for stock. $500 of mods to those cars and they put down 480+RWHP!

It's true, Mustang owners are goo-goo over their ponies. I've talked to a few in our club and I think only one actually liked the new design of the 2010 stang. (Mostly because they don't like the back end.)

No, I haven't bought my 370 yet. I'll likely purchase it either next month or in March. I can't purchase it right this second. I don't even have time to get my current Z smogged and I haven't been able to get to the DMV to renew my License! :D I figure I'll probably keep the 300z now as my beater and buy the 370z as my daily. Not sure. I don't drive that much at all since I work primarily from home. I'd LOVE to turn the 300z into an electric car.