Unpopular Post (no doubt but...)
 

So, I'm still pondering a 370Z and I've been semi-lurking/posting here for a few weeks now. And while the prices don't seem too far out of whack with what I can swing, as an old person, I try to put my money into some kind of quality.

So, is it just me remembering how things used to be or is it now expected cars come off the assembly line with too many defects and incomplete design/component testiing?

To wit, a brief review of the various threads I've read:

Hatch problem (Nissan won't fix and the "coin repair");

Oil heat problems;

Paint defects;

High pitch whine / ECU noise;

Engine oil leaks (and at least one engine replaced);

Shifting problems (1-->2) and shifting/clunking noises (differential?).

(and maybe other problems I haven't even seen yet)

Now, I have a Nissan PU ('98) and I had to take it to the dealer 3 times for a cab leak (water) and it's never been fixed and a repair to something in the steering wheel column down in the engine bay. And the right-side mirror can't be tightened enough to keep it from vibrating (I've gotten used to it).

And my RSX had a TSB on the strut housing or something (clunking when turning and going slowly over a speed bump or driveway) and a known shifting problem that you have to fight like hell with to get Acura to deal with.

SO...

Having said all this, a couple of questions:

Is this number of problems with a new car to be expected these days? What happened to all that quality I learned to expect from Japanese cars? For those with multiple problems, would you buy again? Should some of these problems be fixed in 2010 (or do you think Nissan will just continue to pass them along as long as sales are doing as well as they want)?

Yeah, I'm rambling and I don't expect every question to be answered but if you feel like commenting, I'd appreciate it. And if you feel like flaming me, go ahead and take a shot. I know I'm in the forum where people are likely to get upset at my comments.

Great post!

Put things into perspective. An any forum, you are going to hear about issues, defects, complaints.

There are thousands of members on this forum, I reckon. I wonder how many of the folks who complain about "clunking when shifting" are just lousy at working a manual, especially a manual in a sports car.

I won't even get into the amount of BS I've read here in the threads regarding oil.

The hatch issue? Let's not forget this is a first-year car. There has always been a history of problems with first-year issue, regardless of manufacturer.

To put things into an even finer perspective: This car is the JD Power award winner for initial quality. That drowns out al the noise I read on this forum. Even a high-pitched noise coming from "somewhere in the rear of the car". I too am "old", and my high-frequency hearing loss from too many years of electric guitar has seen to that.

I'm buying a Z this week.

Cheers! :tiphat:

To be honest...There is so much fear mongering on this forum about problems with the Z. I was scared shitless...and then once I get my I realized majority of it was really minor. I never see my car having oil temp problems. Leaking oil because of bad sealing is not a common occurrence. Paint Defects? I know I have none.. Same with the hatch problem.

But idk...that's just me..YMMV

+1 rep! :tup:

I understand your concerns and I'll try to explain and address it according to what I know,

-stuck hatch problem was not a concern to me maybe I got lucky, I havn't had the stuck hatch release problem. BUT however I did have that problem on my 05 350Z.

-Oil Temp problem is a concern if you decide to track / push your car hard, but during normal daily driving conditions it shouldn't be a concern, and there are after market options that you can do to correct the problem but be mindful about your manufacture's warranty when do so.

-Paint defects, again I'm the lucky couple few that didn't experience this problem.

-High Pitch ECU noise I have experienced and trying to work on it with Nissan.

-Engine oil leak, I've followed the proper 1200k mi break-in and my engine has not experienced leak so again it's a luck thing I guess.

-Shifting problems from 1st to 2nd is common in this tranny, my 350Z had it even worst, it's a car that has hard shifting from 1st to 2nd, it takes a while to get use to but once you're used to it you should be fine. As far as the clunking, I only found it to be a problem when I push the clutch in super super fast, if I was driving under normal clutch releasing and engaging speed, no clunks are heard.

Hope that helps a bit.

Problem is that too many people complain about the smallest things or what they perceive to be a problem. I have an 03 Z that I'm very happy with, but I don't really post about all the little things. I'd rather find the problem and fix it first. If it's major, then that's a different story. Thankfully, I don't really have major problems with the Z.

When I was narrowing my decision down to a few cars, I checked out the forums for each. 135i, Lexus IS, 370z, G37 and the Camaro. I went to all the forums and to my disbelief, each of them was littered with complaints, defects, and problems.

One of the reasons I chose the Z was the fact that it had far less than the others, for whatever that's worth!

And I've zero issues listed in the OP other than the 1st-2nd shift clunkiness...and with the little time I spend in those gears, I'm not really worried about it!

:ninja3: Spelling error

Right, if you go to the camaro board and read about their problems, you would think the thing was going to blow up. Not to mention the fact I've seen one broken down on the side of the road already. :icon14:

Hopefully no one jumps on you for this post, because there's nothing wrong with it. Your concerns are legit.

The hatch sticking and ECU whine are definitely unacceptable. Those are issues that should have been caught in testing and never made it to production.

Oil leaks... this is a touchy subject. I haven't heard of any oil leaks but it is common knowledge that engines burn oil... some more than others. You just have to be proactive and check your oil levels regularly to get an idea for how your engine behaves. Your driving habits, environmental conditions, and luck of the draw when it comes to which batch of parts are on your car are all going to contribute to how it performs. I doubt keeping up with maintenance is going to be an issue with you, but for some on this board they can't even be bothered to check oil levels let alone tire pressure!

Paint defects... I think the paint quality on this car is "average" when it comes to quality of factory paint jobs. It's not the worst but it certainly isn't the best. Unless you get an expensive paint job sprayed by a skilled painter, you are never going to have a flawless finish.

Shifting problems... this is mostly a driver issue. The 1-2 "clunk" is normal on these transmissions. One thing that lots of people don't realize is that this isn't a quick-shifting manual. The transmission doesn't like being forced into gear... you have to be easy and just resign to the fact that this ain't no Mustang TR3650 with Steeda Tri-Ax shifter. Flat-footed, super quick shifts just aren't going to happen. We had a discussion about the benefit of a short-throw shifter on this car and pretty much came to the conclusion that there really is no benefit to having the shorter throw since the transmission doesn't like those quick shifts. The only real benefit is improved feel by removing some of the slop from the rubbery factory shifter.

This is a fantastic car. Unfortunately for some of us there are some issues that really make us reconsider. The ECU whine is horrible for me and my 24 year old ears. Seems like some of the older drivers aren't picking up on that frequency. I am sure my dad wouldn't be able to hear it if I put him in the car. Makes me jealous, actually.

The hatch-stick... if you use the hatch a lot this is going to drive you crazy. Nissan really needs to issue a TSB to replace the short springs with longer ones that will lift the hatch. Hell, they don't have to install them for us... just give us the replacement springs and we'll do it on our own!

One of the things about complaints on message boards... if you go to a board looking for complaints, you're going to come out thinking the car is completely messed up regardless of which board you go to. It's a lot like those apartment rating websites. NO ONE bothers to make a post to boast about how great their apartment is... they go there to complain.

People are always more likely to vocalize their complaints than their praise. It's just human nature. :tup:

Thanks, everyone, for the well-expressed concerns.

ONE of the items I did NOT mention in my initial post was that I realize more complaints will get posted than posts talking about how their car has no problems.

Like a restaurant. People will complain when the service or food is bad but never take the time to call the manager over to compliment excellent service or food...which I take the time to do EVERY time it happens.

So, I expect there to be a disproportionate amount of "problem" posts.

And... LMAO... haven't been to any American car forums...I imagine the comment about them is on target.

Yeah, if you go to a dodge website, it'll say,

"Sorry, our cars...err...site is still under construction! You will now be redirected somewhere else!"

consumer reports rated the g37 almost all high marks. And the Z should be rated good as well. I've had 7 nissans and nevr did one visit a repair shop. That being said, the paint on my sentra was terrible. The 350 not a whole lot better. The hardbodies, pathfinder and my titan had great paint. The 370 detailed out real well. Time will tell.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as how automotive forums work regarding manufacturer issue. Even the most reliable cars have the same posts on their forums. Some problems are ligit, others not so much.

I'm one of the majority here with no major issue's. The hatch was corrected but that's it!

I'm very happy as well as most the 370z owners in here, like it has been said if you go to

another car forum your going to see the same thing, I think if car makers were making

really bad cars don't you think it would be in news also? I used to Own a 2005 Bmw 530i

and, the Bimmer forum also contained issue's from some members that left the newbie

thinking there we're all these software issues and blah blah blah, I never had a issue with

my Bmw, so don't let some turn you off from anything your wanting unless it's proven

beyond a doubt. From a Happy Z owner..

I almost didn't buy my Z because of all the complaints on this board. When I finally did buy my Z, I had a list a mile long of things I would need to "fix" on it. ClearBra, Oil Cooler, Sound Dampening, etc...

I bought my Z in July, not one dime spent on any of that stuff, and the car is great. I've not had one issue with it.

Please remember that the internet is what makes this congretation of complaints possible. 10yrs ago when the internet was just starting to make its way into people's homes, you would never have seen the amount of complaints all in once place about this same exact car that you can see today.

I don't feel the Z has any major issues that should keep anyone from buying one if they really like the car.

I have to respond
 

I bought my 370 7 spd auto sport touring in march and must say , I LOVE MY CAR ! I use it for a daily driver and have 16000 miles on it , have increased rear wheel hp by 72 hp , average mpg is showing 25.4 for the last 6000 miles . I have had my car on a track actually racing at full throttle or hard braking for 20 solid min with no oil cooler and no oil temps over 245 ever. the speeds were from 50mph to 150 plus every lap. I have never burned any oil that i can tell since the 1st oil change and go 3750 miles between changes . My paint is excellent , the hatch has worked flawlessly , the car is tight and I have had no problems at all. My dealer gave me three oil changes and washes with the sale and honored this.
Now I bought a z in 1984 and had many problems with it many the dealer did not warranty. I could go on and on but I am a very happy customer with the best looking car nissan has ever produced , and also the best quality I had from them.

agree with this.

I am the one with a replAced engine.

In summary, even though I am used to German engineering, I will buy another Z in a heartbeat.

what is this German Engineering malarchy? Is it immune from defects? People go on about German Engineering as if there is no better. Porsche rear main oil seal anyone??

LOL I'm with you. Japanese engineering ftw!

And and +1 rep 4 u

I don't get this whole "good ol' days" thing. It seems that in just about every discussion of anything, people seem to have a filtered view of the past. I imagine it's probably related to human coping mechanisms. The painful memories are always obscured in favor of the good. It's just how we're wired.

In this case, cars today are far and away supperior in just about every way to cars made just 10 years ago.

Sure, there are things that could be better. Sure, there are some mistakes made that can be eliminated. Sure, cars made 10 years from now will be much better than the cars made today. That's just the nature of technology and manufacturing.

If a person can't deal with a few minor mistakes when considering such a fantastic car as the 370Z, then they should simply go buy something else. It's that simple. Of course, that other car will have it's own issues as well, and a person could go on an elusive hunt for the defect free car that would be on par with their distorted memories of cars in the past.

Or.. you can just get the Z and be happy with it's strengths and stop fooling oneself about what cars used to be.

Mr Miata,

there is no absolute in life; no guarantees; and, nothing is perfect. Did anyone say that German cars are immune to defects? No one! I, for one, did not.

Did you ever own a Porsche before?

Do you even own a Z?

And now back to me, did I not say that I would own one in a heartbeat?

You are reading to much or perhaps too little in the messages.

In either case you read my message incorrectly. To others if you read my note the same way as mr miata, my aplologies. Again I LOVE My 370

cheers. Let's watch "The Sound of Music" together for peace and harmony. :)

No way, that's an Austrian family, lol. Let's all watch Ninja Assassin! :icon17:

Xxx

Is there a reason you posted this twice? :icon14:

Yep, I agree, you should not buy a Z.

Sometimes you have to poke em in BOTH eyes to get a point across...:tup:

You guys are cracking me up. :)

no. Double post was Internet issue. I actually deleted the second one even before I read steve's q.

Better yet modshack is probably twice. I may need to poke twice.

I bought 370 7AT base in Oct and +1 on LOVE MY CAR.

No problems at end of break-in. I don't even think the road noise is as bad as the mostly incredible reviewed criticized. Maybe bc I have 18" and cars were tested on 19's & less rubber. Anyway - nothing good audio can't take care off...

The oil thing is becoming urban legend - a Dodge owner asked me about it this weekend while getting my Clear Bra. Admittedly, I was concerned about it based on all the hype, but as a daily driver, it's just not a factor.

I have PW, which had some paint complaints (plastic not matching). Mine looks perfect. It does stain yellow from sap and birds, so put on a couple of coats of NXT and keep microfiber in the car to remove suspect objects early as possible.

I'm glad to see a higher mileage 370 getting MPG over 20. I'm still low miles and the jump from 15 to 19 made my day. And now there's hope for more :excited:

Trying to keep it in good enough condition until hopefully I can eventually make it a weekend/hobby car. Look forward to having it around a while...

Good ole days = days before the Internet


Before there were discussion forums, nobody knew about the high pitch noise "that guy in California" has or the oil burning issue "that guy in Texas" has.

Ignorance was bliss.

I have found that the stuck hatch issue only occures when it is colder outside. living in phoenix I never had a stuck hatch issue until the temps started hitting the low 50s high 40s at night. even then just hitting the button a second time pops it open.

lol....

The Grayline Blog Archive 2010 Camaro SS Recall On Battery Cable

I think every car is going to have some issues. Whether its personal like "too much road noise" or a technical issue like "stuck hatch problem". Obviously, personal issues are not shared by everyone, and the same can be said about technical issues. I owned a 350Z for 4.5 years and had no technical issues with it. Sure I had some personal issues about the "plastic interior" but it wasn't a deal breaker for me. And so far I have no personal issues with the 370, and thus far no technical issues either. Don't let the negative things you read on this forum steer you away from purchasing a great car. Think of it this way, I'm sure this forum has over a thousand members, and only a few handful of them ARE experiencing some issues. And I bet you if you asked them if they regret buying one, they'd tell you "no way".

"The 2010 Camaro recall is for a manufacturing defective battery cable. Essentially this makes the Camaro completely die or in worst case scenarios catch fire. As of this posting no fires have been reported due to the battery cable rubbing up agains the Camaro starter."

:icon14: Folks here are concerned with such mundane issues compared to the new Chevy owners. :icon17:

First of all, there is no requirement to own a 370z to even join this forum.

THE QUESTIONS to ask yourself:
1. How do you know if a person posting even drives a Z?
2. How do you know if a person posting negative comments doesn't have an ulterior motive? (Works for a competitor, dislikes Nissan, disgruntled former employee, etc.)
3. How do you know if a person posting negative comments isn't simply a troll looking for attention?

You need to look at the people posting, at their "body of work" and judge their comments accordingly. The oil temperature issue is completely overblown, for example. It occurs on the race track, or when driving illegally. You cannot expect Nissan to sell track cars to retail consumers, or be expected to meet that level of performance for $30-40k. The hatch issue is minor, and takes a few minutes to fix. The paint issue is suspect (see above) and rare. The high pitched sound is there, but not loud (I have it). If you turn on the radio to normal levels, you won't hear it. Nissan will fix this, I have no doubt about it. Oil burning or oil leaking are either troll posts, or posted by people that beat the crap out of their car and didn't break it in properly. Somewhere on here there was a guy who had this problem, turned out he was driving the car literally at the top end speed (in excess of 150 mph) with less than 10 miles on the car. Who's fault is that? What kind of person does this?

You will always hear complaints about cars from people, because mechanical devices will never be perfect. The 370z is the best performing vehicle for the money in the world. Is it perfect? No such thing.

:iagree:

[QUOTE=billydsz;292611]First of all, there is no requirement to own a 370z to even join this forum.

THE QUESTIONS to ask yourself:
1. How do you know if a person posting even drives a Z?
2. How do you know if a person posting negative comments doesn't have an ulterior motive? (Works for a competitor, dislikes Nissan, disgruntled former employee, etc.)
3. How do you know if a person posting negative comments isn't simply a troll looking for attention?




4. How do you know if a person posting negative comments (E.g. audio equipment) isn’t simply a troll looking to make money?

Well, here's the facts relating to my Z.

1) No hatch issue, except when I use the rollout attachable cover, even then, it's only a matter of hitting the button twice. It's happened twice in the 6 months I've had the car. Non-issue.

2) ECU noise - some days I hear it VERY faintly, some days I don't hear it at all. I listen to my CD's loudly, and I have a louder exhaust than stock, so, non-issue.

3) Oil Temp - I've never gotten my car into limp-mode, and I tried. Even had a few days where it was 110F or higher outside this past summer, and I drove it hard enough to earn some tickets, but still didn't hit limp-mode. Should it have an oil cooler - sure, does it need it, no.

4) Paint issues - it does have more orange peel than I'd like, but, that's the case with all newer cars with thin paint...even a Ferrari F430 has orange peel. That said, the car is low to the ground, and has thin paint. It'll chip easily and often, and the more you tailgate the problem will become more of an issue. Same with if you drive roads where construction/off road vehicles typically travel - but this would be the case for ALL vehicles, not just the Z...

5) Oil leaks - I've not heard of any of our Z's leaking oil. I've heard of some eating oil, but mine doesn't have this issue - that said, I should check my oil again to be sure. 2400 miles on it, with 1200 miles on current fill. I really should write it (the level of the oil) down so I can remember where exactly it is each time...

6) Shifting problems - I have a 7AT. It did do a funny "slip" shift once...something I plan on keeping tabs on. Since I don't remember what it was that I was doing at the time or what the transmission was doing at the time, I couldn't replicate it. I'd guess that it was in the middle of upshifting and I got on the gas too hard, so it downshifted, and it just turned into a slip-up/down-shifting-mess. If it does it again, I'll be concerned then. Once is a fluke, Twice is a trend. Being able to replicate the issue would be key to getting the issue (if it exists) fixed anyway. The only other thing I've noticed with the rear diff, is that it chattered once. Best I can explain it...but, it was also wet pavement, and I had LSD on. Felt (and sounded) mostly like ABS was going AWOL on the rear wheels, so now that I think about it, that could have been the issue anyway.

This is how many problems I’ve had with my 370Z……………………………….0 (zero)