The carmax and carfax fight (will update regularly)
 

Long story short, Bought a car from carmax, At the time everything seemed okay... Tried to trade it in and a accident shows up on the carfax report that wasn't there until last October that took place October 2009 (6 years ago). I was sold the 370Z being told it had a clean history and no previous accidents... Right now, I have just started fighting with Carmax and i'll update as this progresses.

But for now, Here's the detailed story.

-February 2015, I purchased the 2009 370Z Sport/Touring/Nav 6spd for $25K ($29K after everything was said and done, but put a $11K down payment)

-Most of March and early april the Z takes 4 trips to carmax in Modesto for various repairs, a chunk missing in the headlight, front chin spoiler missing, front bumper not aligned properly, missing clips, dead TPMS sensor and unusual scrapes... They fixed all but the scrapes, Found out the bumper had several missing brackets.

-2 CSC's later and $3000 in maintenance, repairs and upgrades that literally only include a TWM shifter, shift knob, wheel spacers, some LED's and window tint... I'm growing tired of the car.

-November 1st I go into carmax to get an appraisal on the Z and walk out with a $17K offer... As they did the appraisal I roamed the lot and found a 2015 Toyota 4Runner Trail Premium for $40K that I really liked. But it's only $1K less than a new 2016.

-November 3rd I go into Livermore Toyota that has a Nautical Blue 2016 4Runner trail premium for $42K... I test drive and hand over the keys to the Z for their own appraisal. After about an hour the manager comes up to me and asks how to start the car... I explain it to him and he runs off but fails again and asks me to show him. As were walking out he's asking questions and mentions an accident on the carfax. That causes me stumble a bit... What?, I had 0 accidents and when carmax ran the autocheck it showed nothing of the sort when I bought it and when I got it appraised.

I asked to see it and he shows me 10/09/09 accident reported with the 1st owner (i'm 3rd), I think it's just a ploy so they lowball me on the Z so when I'm left alone in the waiting area I buy a 60 day subscription to carfax and run it myself... Sure enough it says it right there, But the kicker... in the notes of the incident "Carfax began following this incident 10/20/15".

After some hysterically high and low numbers were thrown around I leave in my Z again but not before the manager tells me they put the car on the lift and found frame damage that he was obligated by law to inform me of the findings... I'm already steaming from the carfax so now I'm pissed.

On the way out I called carmax to speak with a manager who wasn't in...

-November 4th... I write on carmax's facebook wall
I get a response from carmax
I responded
They replied
And later
-At this point I've made an appointment for a visual inspection with Cooks collision repair in Tracy at 3PM
-- 2:40PM I get a call from "Francis" at Carmax who is the service department manager and asks me to bring the car in so they can check it for frame damage... I agree, I will after I get this place to check out.

- Cooks finds no frame damage fortunately but points out that there's clear indications of a left front hit... Bumper cover is aftermarket, fender has been repaired and repainted, Hood has been replaced, headlight wasn't OEM, bumper reinforcement bar was cracked on the right side and the bumper foam was held together with tape.

- I take it to carmax and bring my mother as a witness and to be the voice of reason as I'm very calm and emotionless.
-- They put it on a lift and the mechanic with the manager watching explains to me what they're looking for, starting at the rear... He reaches behind the bumper cover and says "we check the bumper support bar for any visible signs of dents or cracks" where I pointed out the front is cracked... He shoots over to the front and unbolts the splash guard and I point to the crack... They mumble to each other and he keeps going along with the inspection and finds nothing out of the ordinary.

Our conversation went back and fourth, They kept quoting their guarantee is for frame or flood damage. While I point out that they did a "125+ point inspection" which checks for these kind of things, That the guy who did the "125+ point inspection" over looked the paint peeling off the bumper, missing vin sticker, missing brackets I had to get them to replace, the over spray and dust in the paint on the hood and fender, the non OEM headlight and bumper cover and the cracked support beam... He offered to replace the bumper support but nothing else.

My mom started off pissed, then we traded and I got pissed and loud for the first time in my life... They offered nothing to do about the now tarnished carfax or an explanation how they overlooked the clear signs of damage and he incriminated himself by saying that they bought a Porsche Boxster from auction that passed everything they do with flying colors only for a service writer to recognize the car from his last job as having the entire front end including parts of the frame repaired. but they couldn't tell before they had the car on their lot being sold to someone else who got their money back.

As of this time, the guy "Francis" left it at "we'll just fix the bumper support" but offered nothing on the carfax despite me explaining... I was told and showed that I purchased a squeeky clean car and paid full non previous wrecked price for it... I am supposed to get a call from a sales manager tomorrow and I left a message to the people on carmax's facebook

I have been getting messages from my friends on facebooks referring me to their attorneys who cover this sort of thing aswell as a friend who works at the DMV there who told me to file a complaint with their investigation department and the BBB. I'll also send this to the local news outlets if nothing will be done to rectify the problem... I just want the car out of my name and my deposit back at this point, I wasnt going to be heart broken if I had to keep the car until finding out it was in an accident.

Its these types of headaches that make me sometimes want to shell out extra for a new car just to have a piece of mind because you never know what happened to the vehicle in the hands of a previous owner.

Sorry for all that pain in the ***, hire a lawyer.

And this is why I call CarFax CarFucks, because it's 100% bullshít.

Exactly why i had my Z inspected after i picked it up, fortunately i got lucky as far as having no damage....i dont care what a report says, i still have cars inspected after i pick them up

Criminals :shakes head:

Hope you get made whole again :tiphat:

Gotta get a lawyer. Then gotta hope you have a written record of the "clean" carfax report and the vehicle being sold as "accident free". Then gotta hope there isn't some statute of limitations for claims of this type, ie buying, in good faith, under false pretenses. Then let the lawyer do their job and get to work for you.

carmax is the worst auto dealer you can ever go too

Fook man this sucks

That sucks. Hope things will work out for you. From my understanding, a clean Carfax report simply means no insurance paid repairs. You can have your car repaired multiple times and as long as you pay out of your pocket, it won't be on the report.

Wow! What a mess.

I hope it all gets sorted out one way or another.

Thanks everyone, I have info on 3 lawyers that specialize in this kind of thing.. Auto check which is what carmax uses comes up clean while Carfax shows an accident...

Here's a message I got this morning

And my response
If I buy another used car I'm definitely having it inspected in and out by my mechanic.

:iagree:

this will be a hard thing to win. carfax isn't always updated and some things get reported later. they (whoever fixed the car the first time) probably didn't report it till it showed up on carfax. when i had my car, i had the side hit and had the door replaced, it was private property and no police was involved and it never showed up on carfax. however, i ended up rear ending a car going 5mph and got spider web cracks in my paint on the front bumber, it was on the road. i got a ticket and it showed up on carfax as front end damage.

you may be able to win something here, but you will waste a lot of time and money for the lawyer.

i honestly don't know what i would do in the scenario that you are in.

:mad:

at this point i would just hang low and sell the car at $17K unless u want to keep the Z.

why bother announcing u have a problem car? the whole purpose of selling a damaged car is to fix it and sell it BEFORE it shows up on carfax. :D

They do their "125+ point inspection" on every car sold on the lot, if performed as they described they would of saw the repair work and cracked bumper support...

It will be a hard win but its not impossible... If they stop helping (so far the people who manage their facebook have been great). I'll have to get local media involved, write yelp reviews, get the DMV involved, BBB and whoever can do something... Then get the attorney(s) referred to me.

I owe $16k on it, after taxes, APR etc... Is factored in it was $28k. I like honesty...

On a humorous note, the guy I saw last night at carmax said 2 things dinged the appraisal... The short shifter and "RPM thing". I didn't do anything besides wheel spacers, twm shifter and knob... So I asked what "RPM thing?" He didn't know as he wasn't the appraiser, I thought for a second he was talking about the shift light in the cluster and I said that was stock... Then just now realized I think he was talking about the rev match thing. Apparently that's a mod that devalues the car ��

scumbag kenchan :icon14:

Didn't get much today... The Facebook people tried to reach out to "senior" management for modesto and didn't get anything back, or at least what they said to me...

Edit: forgot to add this
I said first
Their response
I just said thanks and got

Seems like good CS from the FB team. Hopefully you can get this all worked out!

Reading this is very disappointing. I've had nothing but a good experience dealing with CarMax thus far. This experience that you have had may very well impact my future business with this company.

Thanks for the heads up and hope all of your issues get resolved quickly.

i think you're a 1% lol

we bought a car at carmax for my mom and she was getting off an exit and the breaks failed. not sure how they stay in business. i know i'd never buy anything from them.

Damn...... I've been lucky I guess. My Z is a 2014 and had less than 9k miles on it when I bought it back in May. (knock on wood)

This is carmax car #2 of 3... We also have a 2009 BMW 328I (bought 4 days after I got my Z with 50k miles, it now has 57k) that's been a total piece of crap. It spent the first 4 weeks at carmax after we got it for a bad oil leak, the first fix was to use silicone sealant around the oil pan to stop the leaking... It worked for a day, its at the shop as we speak for a misfire...

The other one was the 2007 Toyota Tacoma X-Runner with 40k (october 2011)I traded in for my Z... Never had an issue with that truck, had it for 5 years and put 85k miles on it.

Toyota vs BMW :twocents:

The situation with your Z is just effed though...

Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone buys from them. What's the appeal? :confused:

I asked for an update this morning and got

I responded with
I sent links to here and yelp and
And just got
I'll update with my response.

My responses

No lawyer
 

IMO, not that you're asking, is you need to decide right now whether you're going to use a lawyer or not. Now.
The first thing a lawyer would do is tell you to stop talking to them and let them do their thing. You've done too much of the 'trying to resolve this on your own' thing already. It's pretty clear at this point they're now just starting to dog you. This will continue until you give up in frustration. They'll simply out wait you. Either get a lawyer or get serious with your plans on turning up the heat using the media.


I hate hearing these kinds of stories and I really wish you the best of luck resolving this one to your satisfaction. I really do. This would eat me to the point of impacting my health.

104

$17000 is actually a pretty fair price for your car.

<- Shill for CarMax

Why not just take the $17000 trade-in for the car? :confused:

How much more than that do you think it's worth?

They said
I said
They said
I said
they said
I've reached out to Fox40 news and sent a transcript of events to a few attorneys that were referred to me...

One of which having a neat little video.

http://gwpconnectvideos.com/?rid=73&uid=664

I'll probably stop updating this with thorough details as to what goes on now as I'm sure the lawyer would tell me to stop...

And Davey, For that amount I was just going to keep the car... Until I found it had a screwed up carfax. I paid full price for a non wrecked car and got a wrecked car after all.

Ya know, even if it the A-hole manager would have said something like"Man dude we ****** up, how can we reimburse you? What's your price?" Would have been better than the snive little corporate "I'm a ******* know-it-all-***-fucker" attitude in his emails.

Legally now, I can't say what I would settle for although its already been said, but now its going to cost them a bit more and legal fees.

OK but first of all, based on my quick check, $17K is what the car is worth, according to KBB and NADA, on average. I put in a 2009 Sport+touring with every option and 50K miles and even Excellent condition is only $900 more than they offered, and they NEVER will give you "Excellent." "Very good" is roughly $17,000. Is your car exceptionally low mileage or something? If so, it could be worth another $1000to $1500 more, roughly. So we're not talking about thousands and thousands of dollars you are out here, right?

Second, never have any faith in the dealer's inspection process. I learned that the hard way. I bought a "certified used" car and I had the same experience you did - it was wrecked, didn't show up on the Carfax, but once I thoroughly looked the car over, I could see it. I returned the car and was offered every dime I paid for it in trade on a different car, taxes included. I was happy with that, because I was not out any money.

They do not invest any time, effort, or money into the "inspection" beyond if it has some life left in the brake pads and the tires are not bald/no holes in the block. It's a joke. And the guys who do them do 10+ a day and they're not any kind of experts in anything.

So, next time, have a mechanic look at the car.

I wish you the best of luck in getting whatever diminished value you are out, but given the age of the car, I don't think you'll get a whole lot. :tup:

I'm not going for diminished value... I'm going for them to buy the car back from me for what I bought it for from them just 8 months/13K miles ago (37K now). Which is $28,871.63 and then some because now I have to go the legal route and will reach for every penny the attorney says I can probably get back (totaling $32,050.73 for what I have receipts for)

:confused:

Oh, I thought you bought the car in 2009, since that's what you posted...


... and since the price you paid made sense for a 2009 purchase. That wasn't a very good deal for last year. Also 2 CSC's in one year? On your dime? I also assumed that was over 5 years or so, but man, I guess you can't catch a break with this car, that sucks.

Anyway, you made the mistake of believing the 125 point inspection BS guaranteed you a car with no accident damage, now I hope you're not making the same mistake with the lawyer, because I think it's a stretch to say you'll get the full purchase price plus your maintenance expenses, etc. especially considering you did actually use the car for 13,000 miles. Remember, people selling you stuff lie. It's 100% guaranteed in life... I hope he's working on contingency.

whoops... fixed that mistake. I've had it less than a year... And no it wasn't a very good deal to begin with. I have a warranty so I paid the $300 deductible the first time and the shop warranties the 2nd time so it didn't cost me.

I did make the mistake believing their "125+ point inspection". I'll take whatever I can get pretty much, It'll if anything settle out of court.

Get in touch with jalopnik.com.;)

Even though they are not giving/offering you what you're expecting right now, they are attempting to work with so far. Most wouldn't even deal with it until it made it to court.

Sent them a message last night...

And carmax stopped working with me when they concluded they won't do anything more than to replace the cracked bumper support.