Nissan 370Z Forum

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-   -   Hello from sunny North Carolina -- 370Z Traction control vs VDC issue (http://www.the370z.com/new-370z-owner/1354-hello-sunny-north-carolina-370z-traction-control-vs-vdc-issue.html)

JoeyD 01-15-2009 10:31 AM

Hello from sunny North Carolina -- 370Z Traction control vs VDC issue
 
I just bought a 370Z last friday. I've spent the last few days browsing the forums and figured it was time to introduce myself and give a few early impressions.

I'm a long time car guy. I've owned a 350Z, IS300 Turbo, a fully built MazdaSpeed6, and driven thousands of miles in a C6 and C6 Z06. So it's safe to say I know my way around cars.

My early impressions of the 370Z are all good with one exception...the "Sport Package". Who in there right mind builds a sports car without the ability to dissable traction control? Without the sport package I am stuck with TC always on. Lame.

That being said it really is my fault. I should have done a little more research. But at the time my Speed6 was about to go and I needed a new car asap. Unltimately, had I known I probably would of still bought the car. In my area the 370s are selling very quickly and quite hard to come by.

Now the upswing is the TC in the 370 is nothing like the 350. In the new car it is somewhat progressive and only a minor inconvience. In the 350 it was something that quite honestly could of gotten you killed.

First impressions of the handling and interior are all 9.5 out of 10. The auto (this is my first auto sports car) is a pleasure. I was leary at first because of the lumpy unpredictable shifts. However, after about 200 miles the system and I figured each other out and it's been great ever since. On my morning commute having an auto is great and being able to padle shift when the situation calls for it is a wonderful compromise. It's like playing forza haha. Overall my only regret is not having the TCS off switch like the sport package. I am holding out hopes of a tuner figuring out a bypass sometime down the road but for now wider tires seems the easiest fix.

mspeasl 01-15-2009 10:43 AM

Welcome,

There should be a button on the lower left side of the steering column. There was on the 370 that I test drove last week.

Good luck and enjoy your new ride.......

semtex 01-15-2009 11:34 AM

The button you want is labeled 'VDC Off'. VDC = Vehicle Dynamic Control. VDC includes TC and goes a step further by adding electronic stability control.

Edit: Sorry, I just re-read your post. I thought you were complaining that there's no way to turn off TC with the Sport Pkg. But after re-reading, it looks you bought a 370 w/o the Sport Pkg, and that's why there's no button to turn off TC. That does indeed suck. I wonder if there's a specific fuse for TC that you could just pop out. Just an idea.

JoeyD 01-15-2009 12:03 PM

I thought about the fuse thing too. From what I have read about TC systems pulling a fuse will disable other systems as well. Not to mention Nissan doesn't publish a fuse diagram in the owners manual.

AK370Z 01-15-2009 12:27 PM

Hey Joey, welcome to the forums. First let me congratulate you on the 370Z. I am glad that you're enjoying your car.

wow, I didn't knew about TC not having a button to turn off in base model. This is going to be a big issue later down the road because many drivers would like to turn it off before going to track or autoxing. I am going to ask some people and see if they can give me good answer on how to turn it off or is it even possible to turn off in base model.

Oh btw, feel free to post your price of the 370Z here

http://www.the370z.com/new-370z-owne...0z-sticky.html

We are glad to have you here on the forums.

AK370Z 01-15-2009 01:24 PM

Hey Joey, I have contacted proper authority and WILL have an answer for you soon. Hang on tight :tup:

JoeyD 01-15-2009 02:14 PM

Thanks! To be honest I think for the time being I am pretty much stuck. GT Motorsports is going to run in to the same problem developing a turbo kit on a car without the sport package as well. Best case scenarion is availability of a switch or harness from Nissan to do a retrofit. However, I'm not holding my breath. I would love to be wrong on this one.

CMP27 01-15-2009 04:32 PM

All 370Zs come with VDC. VDC is not part of a package like on the 350Z. There is a button on the dash to the left of the steering wheel to turn off the VDC. The sport package includes the 19" wheels and tires, big brakes, rev matching, limited slip diff and the aero kit.

semtex 01-15-2009 05:36 PM

Joey, if CMP27 is right, then you should have a 'VDC Off' button like in my original reply. It'll be on the left, right next to the gauge cluster. Take a look and let us know if it's there.

JoeyD 01-15-2009 07:49 PM

He isn't right. I know where the VDC button is. The VDC has nothing to do with the traction control. VDC= Vehicle Dynamic Control. Traction control, just as in the 350Z, is a independent system. The only way to disable it comes as part of the sports package. All the literature I have read backs me up. The VDC and TC are different systems.

JoeyD 01-15-2009 08:09 PM

So I just went and tested it out again just to make sure it wasn't my imagination. With VDC OFF the TCS light still comes on and the nanny still robs some power. However, it does seem that with VDC off a bit more wheel spin is permitted.

shumby 01-15-2009 08:56 PM

^^^^ you are correct same on the G.

AK370Z 01-15-2009 10:37 PM

Ok Joey, here's your answer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nissan 370Z Technology Communications Manager
All 370Zs have VDC (traction control is part of the vehicle dynamic control system) and there is a switch on the lower portion of the dash to the left of the steering wheel to disable it. Please let me know if you have other questions.

Here's the switch he is talking about (this picturea was taken from a base 370Z with NO OPTIONS)
http://www.the370z.com/images/370zforums/370zbase.PNG

So, if you DO NOT have this button, you need to go back to your dealership ASAP because you car wasn't put together right. And if you DO have the button, then turning it off should turn off any(all) systems as Nissan Technology Manager suggested. There isn't any other buttons. I hope this answers your question.

semtex 01-15-2009 10:50 PM

My understanding is that VDC encompasses TC. In other words, VDC is like TC and then some. You won't find a Nissan with separate VDC Off and TCS Off buttons -- it's one or the other. If you have VDC, you automatically have TC, but the reverse isn't true. i.e., it is possible to have TC only and no VDC, but not the other way around -- which makes sense as VDC is electronic stability control. For the record, Joey, I own the car too. I own a Touring model, and I do have the Sport Pkg, and can tell you that there is no separate TCS Off button -- just the VDC Off button. So your assertion that you can turn off TCS if you have the Sport Pkg isn't quite on the mark. Also, I referred back to the manual from my 350Z and found the following statement in the VDC section: "If the vehicle is operated with the VDC system turned off, all VDC system functions and TCS functions will be turned off." This goes to what I'm saying about VDC including TCS. Now, the interesting thing is that this verbiage is not present in the 370's manual. And that actually makes sense if all 370s come with VDC and none of them come with TCS only (my 350 came with TCS only). There's no need to differentiate between the two systems in the 370 as all 370s come with just the one. But the manual does also have this verbiage: "The ABLS system and ABS will still operate with the VDC system off." And prior to this sentence, it explains that ABLS brakes the spinning wheel when there's wheel slip.

SO . . . the net of this is that you're both right and wrong. You're wrong when you say that there's no button to turn off traction control in your car. Yes there is -- it's the VDC Off button. And as I previously stated, I have the Sport Pkg, and there's no separate TCS Off switch. The VDC Off button is it -- it's all we get regardless of trim line. But at the same time, you're right about there being no way to truly turn off traction control, because the manual comes right out and tells us that even with VDC off, the ABLS system still operates! And I agree with you -- that's really annoying! What's the point of having the VDC Off button if you can't ever truly turn the nanny off? But if it makes you feel any better, having the Sport Pkg doesn't change this. So you're not missing out on anything.

JoeyD 01-16-2009 09:24 AM

Nothing like waking up in the morning and eating a big piece of humble pie.

I do in fact have the VDC button. I always knew it was there. My confusion came from two places; one a magazine article that stated the systems to disable the TC were only in the sport package and 2the always knowledgable dealer.

I tried it out last night but just in my driveway (because I didn't want to be on public roads wink wink) and without VDC the TC light still comes on. I didn't push the issue because burning out in your driveway is dumb. This morning on the way to work I did two runs out in the middle of nowhere. One with one without VDC. While the TC light does still come on with the VDC OFF light on it is NOT ENGAGED. I left two 20 foot long streaks of rubber on Ft. Bragg this morning.

Sorry for my confusion/pig headed ness. Thanks for all the replys and I'm glad I was wrong on this one.

semtex 01-16-2009 09:35 AM

No worries. I'm just glad we got this sorted out. And thanks for doing the test! I'm glad that hitting the VDC Off button does, in fact, turn off TC. Of course, now I'm wondering what the manual is referring to when it says that ABLS stays on. Maybe I misunderstand what ABLS is/does. But I'm all acronymned out right now, so I'll just let sleeping dogs lie.:icon14:

JoeyD 01-16-2009 10:00 AM

Thanks.

Here is my understanding of ABLS (Active Brake Limited Slip). It acts as a limited slip differential by braking a wheel that beggins to spin. This is probably what I was feeling that led me to believe the TC was still engaged...the nanny. However, I don't have a limited slip diff without the sport pack and I left two very even black marks. So, I would say the system functions fairly well.

semtex 01-16-2009 10:50 AM

So.....this kinda implies that if you do have the sport pkg, ABLS will do a much better job - via the LSD - of applying the brakes when wheelspin is detected. I guess I'll have to do a test as well to see what happens.

JoeyD 01-16-2009 01:37 PM

Does it? I would think that because you have an LSD the system would be used less. Mainly because you shouldn't have as much wheel spin. Either way braking as a means of eliminating wheels spin makes no sense from a performance stand point. Yeah it would be great in the snow and ice but at the track braking when you are trying to accelerate is bad juju.

semtex 01-16-2009 04:02 PM

Well, I just want to be able to do burnouts without getting b!tchslapped by VDC, TC, ABLS, ADD, ADHD, HIV, or whatever other acronym we can think of, that's all. I probably don't need to worry. I'm not inclined to do clutch drops until I'm done with the break-in period tho.

sbkim 02-24-2009 08:29 AM

Not to beat this issue further, but is it accurate to say with VDC button off, you no longer have traction control. HOWEVER, you may still have ABLS ON to help straighten the car out if the car goes side ways? ABLS more or less sounds like VDC.

So, did they mislabel the button? Should it have said TC on/off but VDC is always on.

Alexsered 02-24-2009 08:47 AM

hey joey, were you on any of the mazdaspeed forums? I'm selling my speed3, I love it, but I'm ready to step it up.

Glad to see some mazdaspeed people going to the 370z.

JoeyD 02-24-2009 11:04 AM

^ Yeah I was on the Mazdaspeed boards for a while. User name...you guessed it "JoeyD".

^^ The ABLS system is not stability control. It acts as a computer controlled, brake activated limited slip differential. In other words it brakes the wheel that is spinning to avoid power loss.

!xoible 02-24-2009 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex (Post 20380)
My understanding is that VDC encompasses TC. In other words, VDC is like TC and then some. You won't find a Nissan with separate VDC Off and TCS Off buttons -- it's one or the other. If you have VDC, you automatically have TC, but the reverse isn't true. i.e., it is possible to have TC only and no VDC, but not the other way around -- which makes sense as VDC is electronic stability control. For the record, Joey, I own the car too. I own a Touring model, and I do have the Sport Pkg, and can tell you that there is no separate TCS Off button -- just the VDC Off button. So your assertion that you can turn off TCS if you have the Sport Pkg isn't quite on the mark. Also, I referred back to the manual from my 350Z and found the following statement in the VDC section: "If the vehicle is operated with the VDC system turned off, all VDC system functions and TCS functions will be turned off." This goes to what I'm saying about VDC including TCS. Now, the interesting thing is that this verbiage is not present in the 370's manual. And that actually makes sense if all 370s come with VDC and none of them come with TCS only (my 350 came with TCS only). There's no need to differentiate between the two systems in the 370 as all 370s come with just the one. But the manual does also have this verbiage: "The ABLS system and ABS will still operate with the VDC system off." And prior to this sentence, it explains that ABLS brakes the spinning wheel when there's wheel slip.

SO . . . the net of this is that you're both right and wrong. You're wrong when you say that there's no button to turn off traction control in your car. Yes there is -- it's the VDC Off button. And as I previously stated, I have the Sport Pkg, and there's no separate TCS Off switch. The VDC Off button is it -- it's all we get regardless of trim line. But at the same time, you're right about there being no way to truly turn off traction control, because the manual comes right out and tells us that even with VDC off, the ABLS system still operates! And I agree with you -- that's really annoying! What's the point of having the VDC Off button if you can't ever truly turn the nanny off? But if it makes you feel any better, having the Sport Pkg doesn't change this. So you're not missing out on anything.

im a bit lost. how do u turn off VDC and keep TC on? ur saying turning off VDC will turn off everything!

so u either have a nanny car kicking u in the balls every time ur wheels want to spin a bit, or u have a car completely out of control?? I forgot how it was on my G35, but say in my 335 i had 2 modes one that allows some wheel spin (TC off), but DSC was still on (dynamic stability control), if you turn off DSC then ur on ur own, nothing is controlling the car.

same in my M3, i have DSC off (guaranteed to crash if you do not know what you're doing) or MDM (M dynamic mode) which allows some spin and hard launches without killing your power.

Could you please clarify? i will keep on reading up in the meanwhile. thanks!

JoeyD 02-24-2009 11:32 AM

One of my few gripes about the 370 is the TC/VDC system. It functions only two ways; all on or all off. In the all on mode the power can be suddenly and dramaticly lost, sometimes taking as long as 5-10 seconds to return (if you leave the pedal down). I hate this system as I believe it could cause an accident. Say you pull out in front of line of traffic with intentions to just hit it and safely accelerate in front of the line. Well with this system you could wind up with an essentially stalled car sitting in front of on coming traffic. Not only is it embarrasing but it could be dangerous.

ABLS is always on but it will not save you like a VDC system will.

I would love to see a traction control like that in the Corvettes. It's perfect. The system only takes as much power as is neccesary to keep the wheels from spinning. Essentially the TC gives you the best acceleration possible. Our system is like an overbaring parent scared that "you'll shoot your eye out."

sbkim 02-24-2009 02:16 PM

JoeyD - thank you for the clarification. I am really shocked by this fact. I also agree that intrusive VDC/TC can cause serious issues when you are trying to get out of harms way.

I was really hoping for at least three modes (similar to corvette, 335) - ALL OFF, VDC On, ALL ON.

!xoible 02-24-2009 02:29 PM

what do u guys use on the track btw?

semtex 02-24-2009 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !xoible (Post 34981)
what do u guys use on the track btw?

We just turn VDC off on the track. And regarding your other post where you ask: "so u either have a nanny car kicking u in the balls every time ur wheels want to spin a bit, or u have a car completely out of control??" I'm not sure I understand the juxtaposition. Turning off VDC doesn't make the car go completely out of control. It just means that you have to rely on the old-fashioned traction control system called your right foot. Even if you induce wheelspin without any VDC or TC on, you can control it by modulating the throttle. I just wish there was a way to permanently disable VDC. If you turn it off, the next time you turn the car on, VDC will automatically be on again. It'd be nice if it'd stay off until you manually turn it on again. But I guess Nissan configured it that way as a safety/lawsuit precaution.

AK370Z 02-24-2009 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex (Post 35042)
If you turn it off, the next time you turn the car on, VDC will automatically be on again. It'd be nice if it'd stay off until you manually turn it on again. But I guess Nissan configured it that way as a safety/lawsuit precaution.

BMW is the same way. You can turn the DTC off but next time you turn the car on, it's defaulted to on. It's a safety issue and I highly doubt they will ever default it to remember the last setting.

!xoible 02-24-2009 05:01 PM

one button press is not a problem, u always gotta do something. nice thing about bmw is u can program all the settings into one button on the steering wheel with the nice little "M" on it :D

ssqpolo 02-24-2009 09:25 PM

So....im not sure what the VDC off button turns off and on, etc....but I know when i turn the VDC off, and i floor it the tires will break loose and i dont feel any systems trying to rob power or reduce wheel spin. I also have done a little drifting when it was raining with VDC off and again...no interference by any systems. I dont know what that means (whethere TC VDC or ABCD wahtever is completely off)...but when VDC is off you can have all the fun you want with no lights flashing or computers interfering...
Maybe i'm wrong, but thats just first hand experience. hope this is helpful:ugh2:

semtex 02-25-2009 06:53 AM

^^ That's very helpful! Thanks for sharing your first-hand experience!

PawnBroker 10-12-2009 09:22 PM

Vdc on/off
 
I just got my 370z base 6sp and there is a button left of the steering column to switch it off.

geterdone 12-14-2010 02:50 AM

Still comes on in my car, I have raced in SCCA events and can not stand when a stupid system cannot fully be deactivated.

Carpetbombing 02-12-2011 11:09 AM

TC off..
 
Howdy. New here. I just got a 370z, but have only driven it about 150 miles before having to store it 1,000 miles away until the snow and salt on the Minnesota roads melt away. I can't verify this for myself since I'm not near my car, but I have been voraciously reading up on this forum and cutting and pasting things that were of interest to me for future reference.

I DON'T KNOW IN WHERE THE STATEMENT BELOW WAS FIRST POSTED, OR BY WHOM. I'm not trying to plagiarize anyone, I just wanted to pass along what I've read here. If anyone knows the original poster, please credit..


To COMPLETELY disable all VDC / traction control stuff (It’s only partially turned off when you select the ‘off’ button) : The Bosch yaw sensor (not the brake light fuse) is under the center console. Just pull the cup holder and look in front/under the e-brake. It's a little hard to get to like this but I did it. If not you have to remove the center console to get full access to the ebrake area. No drawbacks if u know how to drive without CDC and tcs. Let's u drift the car also. Yeah, the vdc and tcs lights will be on showing u that they actually off like when u push the vdc button. No other lights though. Nothing different then just pushing the button except u don't have to push the button anymore and no tcs interference.


- Has anyone else tried this?

WWJD 08-13-2011 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK370Z (Post 20367)
Ok Joey, here's your answer:



Here's the switch he is talking about (this picturea was taken from a base 370Z with NO OPTIONS)
http://www.the370z.com/images/370zforums/370zbase.PNG

So, if you DO NOT have this button, you need to go back to your dealership ASAP because you car wasn't put together right. And if you DO have the button, then turning it off should turn off any(all) systems as Nissan Technology Manager suggested. There isn't any other buttons. I hope this answers your question.

Sorry to bump the thread from dead. I just bought a basic model, and my car comes with the button at the same place but it;s not saying VDC OFF. Its a symbol that a car driving on slippery roads.
Do they still make mistake on the button even though my car is 2011? Or basic doesn't come with VDC off?

sboden 08-13-2011 04:00 AM

That symbol means it is off if it is lit up. It is a symbol used in many vehicles when someone turns off the manufacturer's control system.

WWJD 08-13-2011 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sboden (Post 1259791)
That symbol means it is off if it is lit up. It is a symbol used in many vehicles when someone turns off the manufacturer's control system.

So it still means VDC OFF even it doesn't say it?
maybe i should try it out later

zeecarr 11-10-2011 08:53 PM

I have a 2009 automatic car and it sure seems like VDC is still active even after shutting it off. It goes from way too intrusive when on, to mildly irritating when "off." I don't believe it ever is truly off.

RiCharlie 02-14-2012 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyD (Post 20144)

Now the upswing is the TC in the 370 is nothing like the 350. In the new car it is somewhat progressive and only a minor inconvience. In the 350 it was something that quite honestly could of gotten you killed.

Just curious why you think the traction control could have gotten you killed


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