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MacCool 08-02-2011 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvfreakazoid (Post 1240723)
how was the firearm course with the xdm? Or have you not gone yet?

This weekend. Goes Sunday/Monday. I just re-replaced the sights on my M&P9L - back to the OEM 3-dots. I just could not warm up to the two-dot Warrens. They're mechanical dead-center but I have to sight them in. My buddy with the XDm .40 is clamoring to do a little prep work before this weekend. Probably a good idea - I hate to go to these things rusty, although we both just did a defensive handgun course about a week ago. I used the Sig .40 for that defensive course since that's what I carry, but I prefer my M&P in 9mm for these high round-count courses where I'm shooting with a bunch of cops and don't want to look bad (in fact, the instructor for the defensive handgun course is a student at this upcoming course too).

ImportConvert 08-07-2011 08:31 AM

Bought a new toy, but I can't have it for 4-5 months. *impatient whining*

ImportConvert 08-07-2011 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool (Post 1241144)
This weekend. Goes Sunday/Monday. I just re-replaced the sights on my M&P9L - back to the OEM 3-dots. I just could not warm up to the two-dot Warrens. They're mechanical dead-center but I have to sight them in. My buddy with the XDm .40 is clamoring to do a little prep work before this weekend. Probably a good idea - I hate to go to these things rusty, although we both just did a defensive handgun course about a week ago. I used the Sig .40 for that defensive course since that's what I carry, but I prefer my M&P in 9mm for these high round-count courses where I'm shooting with a bunch of cops and don't want to look bad (in fact, the instructor for the defensive handgun course is a student at this upcoming course too).

I really think 9mm is where it's at. The bad rap that it got came from:

a)poor marksmanship (lots of thugs just pointing and clicking, not many people die that way)
b)sub-standard ammunition in the 80's
c)a lot of people who want to cite .38 revolver performance on a far away island using ball ammunition compared to .45 LC revolver performance also using ball ammunition.
d)appeals to many different logical fallacies too numerous to name.

Using modern JHP ammunition, the 9mm will get the job done, and you can't put a price on more chances to hit your target when actual hit percentages in gunfights are so low.

Isamu 08-07-2011 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1249142)
Bought a new toy, but I can't have it for 4-5 months. *impatient whining*

stuff a tampon in, you'll be ok....



but seriously.. what is it?

ImportConvert 08-07-2011 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isamu (Post 1249185)
stuff a tampon in, you'll be ok....



but seriously.. what is it?

Decided I was going to do my Noveske M4 setup right and bought an M4-2000 MOD08

Isamu 08-07-2011 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1249195)
Decided I was going to do my Noveske M4 setup right and bought an M4-2000 MOD08

mmmm M4...
I need to get one myself.. like this one. which was mine.. for 6mo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...uandarmour.jpg

MacCool 08-07-2011 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1249195)
Decided I was going to do my Noveske M4 setup right and bought an M4-2000 MOD08

That's a nice can. Sadly, Minnesota is a no-suppressor state. Otherwise both of my Noveske SBRs would have one with switchblocks.

ImportConvert 08-07-2011 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool (Post 1249665)
That's a nice can. Sadly, Minnesota is a no-suppressor state. Otherwise both of my Noveske SBRs would have one with switchblocks.

I thought about an SBR, too, but ironically, the suppressor and the AOW are the only 2 NFA items I am aware of that you can cross state lines with without a BATFE permission slip, which means I can travel and go shooting without a bunch of paperwork. That's the only reason I did it. Once it's yours, just stay out of the states that don't allow them and you're G2G.

Baer383 08-07-2011 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1249195)
Decided I was going to do my Noveske M4 setup right and bought an M4-2000 MOD08

Something like this
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/z...3/IMG_0103.jpg

MacCool 08-07-2011 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1249144)
I really think 9mm is where it's at. The bad rap that it got came from:

a)poor marksmanship (lots of thugs just pointing and clicking, not many people die that way)
b)sub-standard ammunition in the 80's
c)a lot of people who want to cite .38 revolver performance on a far away island using ball ammunition compared to .45 LC revolver performance also using ball ammunition.
d)appeals to many different logical fallacies too numerous to name.

Using modern JHP ammunition, the 9mm will get the job done, and you can't put a price on more chances to hit your target when actual hit percentages in gunfights are so low.

The terminal ballistics of 9mm just don't hold up to .40 S&W, but IMHO those are mostly laboratory findings. I agree with you that many, many people blame the round when tactics and shot placement are the real culprits. The superiority of .40 gets a little thin in real-world shootings these days, but the basis of .40 S&W of course was the 1986 Miami FBI shootout. The FBI's basis for switching to the 10mm round (then later the .40 S&W when they saw the negatives of the 10mm blast and recoil) was the medical examiner's report. His rather exhaustive analysis made mention of the very remarkable accuracy of the FBI agents, especially under fire, but that the 9mm rounds just weren't having the incapacitating effect that they would have expected from the shot placement. The thing that makes me a little skeptical is that the first gunman took a shot to the chest right off the bat which collapsed his lung and hit his pulmonary artery. That wasn't a survivable wound, but most of the injuries and deaths he inflicted occurred after that wound. I doubt that a .40 cal would have made him die any faster.

MacCool 08-07-2011 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert (Post 1249672)
I thought about an SBR, too, but ironically, the suppressor and the AOW are the only 2 NFA items I am aware of that you can cross state lines with without a BATFE permission slip, which means I can travel and go shooting without a bunch of paperwork. That's the only reason I did it. Once it's yours, just stay out of the states that don't allow them and you're G2G.

Turnaround time on an ATF form 5320-20 is reliably less than two weeks. It's pretty simple - download the form, fill it out and mail it. You can put an end date of up to 364 days.

m4a1mustang 08-07-2011 06:59 PM

I am 100% comfortable with the 9mm round. Like has been mentioned already, quality, modern ammunition and shot placement are critical. And I'm quite confident in my shot placement.

Anyways, went to the range yesterday with a friend. Shot his M&P .45. Nice gun. It did further solidify my belief that the Glock pistols are a better fit for me, but it was still nice.

The real treat was his Ruger GP100. I think I have to buy one now. It'd make a great trail gun.

ImportConvert 08-08-2011 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383 (Post 1249677)

Well. Kinda. Full rail, ACOG, midlength gas system, sopmod stock, troy buis, etc. Same can though!

ImportConvert 08-08-2011 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool (Post 1249679)
The terminal ballistics of 9mm just don't hold up to .40 S&W, but IMHO those are mostly laboratory findings. I agree with you that many, many people blame the round when tactics and shot placement are the real culprits. The superiority of .40 gets a little thin in real-world shootings these days, but the basis of .40 S&W of course was the 1986 Miami FBI shootout. The FBI's basis for switching to the 10mm round (then later the .40 S&W when they saw the negatives of the 10mm blast and recoil) was the medical examiner's report. His rather exhaustive analysis made mention of the very remarkable accuracy of the FBI agents, especially under fire, but that the 9mm rounds just weren't having the incapacitating effect that they would have expected from the shot placement. The thing that makes me a little skeptical is that the first gunman took a shot to the chest right off the bat which collapsed his lung and hit his pulmonary artery. That wasn't a survivable wound, but most of the injuries and deaths he inflicted occurred after that wound. I doubt that a .40 cal would have made him die any faster.

the failure was due to the bullet used. They now have ammo that expands well and penetrates 12"+. Then, it was kinda either/or.

ImportConvert 08-08-2011 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool (Post 1249690)
Turnaround time on an ATF form 5320-20 is reliably less than two weeks. It's pretty simple - download the form, fill it out and mail it. You can put an end date of up to 364 days.

Still a pain as I'm 20 minutes from 2 state lines. Would rather not. Besides, sbr's are hard on silencers.


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