Yeah, the stuff from Legalsteroids.com not the "real" dianabol

Dont forget turkey it has high protein and only a small amount of fat. Ground turkey is excellent for chili, burgers etc etc. I would also suggest using BCAAs in with your protein shakes. They are already in most porteins but supplementing helps with protein synthesis and muscle recovery. I've been using them for a couple of months and I'm never sore as long as I take it within 10-20 minutes of my workout.

Okay I'm still confused!
What do you guys recommend?
Protein shakes before or after lifting?

A shake with both protein and carbs is essential after your workout. Some whey before doesn't hurt, but I'd prefer to have a real meal maybe an hour or so beforehand.

Protein shakes are meant to supplement more protein to provide "raw material" for muscle rebuilding after workouts. Essentially when you work out, you are pushing your muscles to higher stress loads. The effect of this is muscle damage, which is why you feel sore after after work outs. The soreness is due to the contents of your muscles cells spilling out. You want to take a post workout protein shake 30 mins after working out. Protein shakes are effective spread out through out the day. I usually take one in the morning, post workout, and after dinner. Each shake contains about 36g of protein.

The key thing with muscle building is providing the right nutrients and recovery time. In reality going to the gym is only half the battle.

Please keep in mind, that many of the methods that other people will tell you are methods that work for them. The way our bodies react are unique for each person. Find what works best for you and stick with it.

You have some good advice but you are spreading some common fallacies about workout soreness. I'm assuming by "spilling out" you are referring to the production of lactate as an anaerobic by product of cell metabolism. Lactate is constantly produced by the cells of the body and only rises during strenuous anaerobic activity. Lactate isn't a waste product, it simply allows the cells to anaerobically metabolize carbohydrates to generate energy. Lactate dissipates quickly via the blood stream and is converted back into pyruvate, which is the starting point for the TCA/krebs cycle (aerobic metabolism).

Lactate levels return to normal within a few hours after strenuous exercise. Thus, lactate can't be the culprit of 'muscle soreness' that we feel more than a few hours after a work out. The exact cause isn't completely understood but current explanations suggest that soreness is the result of microtearing in the muscle tissue.

I agree with everything else you said. I personally prefer my post work out shake immediately after a workout, and a meal within an hour of working out.

gym rat here!! haha well here is a little background of me.. I'm 22 i have been working out for 4 years now.. it all started when i change my major to Kinesiology and naturally fell in love with the effects of working out for not only a healthy lifestyle, but for the boost in confidence in every part of your life..

I started out at a whoppin 130lbs @ 5'11''... TRUST ME, I hated being the skinny guy.. after continually going to the gym and trying different supplements AND CONTINUALLY CHANGING MY WORKOUT EVERY 2-3WEEKS.. i am now 180lbs @ 6.7% body fat..

In the past i have cycled creatine once.. but recently I have cycled super pump250 + whey protein and superpump250 + Surge biotest... super pump and surge are GREAT products... they helped me get over my wall a couple times now.. Surge has got to be one of the best post workout products I have taken and can only be bought on their site, they are made by biotest... when i got it there was a really good deal 3 tubs (15 servings each) for 99$ tax shipping included.. and chocolate flavor taste great!


Right now I am trying NO2 by bsn which like everyone says is high in caffeine. Myself being very sensitive to caffeine because I don't drink coffee or soda.. this stuff makes me very jittery and sometimes makes it difficult for me to breathe when i work out cause my heart rate is so fast. Not only that, but this stuff has made my blood pressure rise to 170/110 even one hour after the workout!!! so be careful with this stuff.. I only take half a serving now because of that, which seems to better fit my body.


and as far as using protein as a post workout:
The thing is, whey protein is great as a meal replacement, or if your trying to pack more calories, but I know a lot of people take protein after they work out and some even take around 3-4 servings thinking its more protein the body is utilizing, but in reality your wasting protein/money. My recommendation, is to take one serving of protein after you workout, along with some sugars (like 12 ounces of Gatorade). When your working out your insulin levels drop significantly, in order for your body to absorb the maximum amount of protein for recovery, your insulin levels must be back to normal, therefore taking it with Gatorade. You can take it before the protein or after it does not matter. This is why some of the best post workout products have a proper ratio of PROTEIN/SUGARS/CARBS..

hope this helps! :)... REP?

Got my rep! :tup:
Thank you very much!
I never knew this before. :tiphat:

Great thread! Thanks for the reply, sensi. Does anyone have any experience with GNC Amplified Mass XXX (http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3480829)? Seems a bit expensive and I'm torn between whether to go with that or the Surge Recovery which is cheaper but that's before shipping.

Also how good is Muscle Milk? http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2957401

"Spilling out" was more of a layman's term. For the sake of discussion I was trying to keep it simple lol. But yes you are correct, the soreness is thought to be caused by the the tearing of the muscle tissue. However, this is part of the signal cascade responsible for alerting the body to repair the broken tissue. There are numerous mechanisms that are suspect to facilitate this with numerous literature suggesting all types of methods; however, I think we can go on and on as far what happens at the cell biology level.

Last i checked muscle milk is fairly high in cholesterol. It's probably something you want to look into since i'm not sure if that was the case. However, it is fairly expensive and there are much better protein supplements out there. I recommend optimum whey protein gold standard. Excellent protein and great price.

GNC is really expensive. I would suggest trying bodybuilding.com to buy supps. Most fitness shops mark up their products like crazy. I made the mistake of buying from places like max muscle the first year I started working out. Really poor quality stuff and they charge you an arm and a leg.

I have a super high metabolism and I take in 3-4k of calories on a normal day. I was thinking of adding (American Body Builders) ABB XXL ready to drink weight gainers.

Each 24oz drink contains 1090 calories, 54 grams protein, and 215 carbs...
I can order a bulk box of 20 for like $40-$50...

Whats everyones thought on the product? should I give it a go?

Agreed.
I use Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey Natural (no artificial sweeteners)
Bodybuilding.com - Optimum 100% NATURAL Whey - Perfect For Low Fat/Low Carb Diets! On sale now!
"Chocolate" + skim milk tastes great IMO. And this is quality protein with added digestive enzymes (lactase) which help prevent that dreaded protein gas.

GNC and VitaminShoppe have insane markup. Buy online, there are many sites that give great prices and usually free shipping.

I took an exercise physiology class where we had to track caloric intake and expenditure.
I too thought I was eating a lot but my 'super high metabolism' was keeping me from gaining weight.
My conclusion from a week of monitoring my diet and all physical activity was that although I consumed an average of 3100 calories a day. My caloric expenditure was approximately 3300 calories a day. Which explains why I wasn't gaining weight despite regular weight lifting.

In the end, I would suggest that if you aren't gaining weight. Try adding 500 calories a day for a 1-2lb a week mass gain. Remember to eat clean cals not empty cals and try to eat many smaller portions throughout the day rather than fewer big ones.

1100 calories in 1 weight gainer is a lot. I would break that thing into 2 meal replacements and try to eat 6 meals at 5-600 calories.
Just my opinion. Good luck.

I appreciate it I guess I will give these a shot :D