Nissan 370Z Forum - Fighting my Speeding Ticket

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N (Post 3206497)

The problem is America is too free with it's individual's rights. There is no courtesy, there is no reserved passing lane, people barely ever signal; these offences are all reserved for the biggest ******** in Europe while they're common place within the US. We don't have a culture of allowing a faster lane - it's always me, me, me, and MY rights. I'm allowed to be in the left most lane because I exist, even though I'm only going 45 on a 55mph motorway. If you tried that in Italy they'll run you out of the country (as my girlfriend found out). Other countries simply treat driving differently. We treat it as a right, everyone else treats it as a privilege (there are exceptions, I'm generalizing here). Everyone's comments about raising the speed limit seems far fetched because the average American simply cannot be trusted with the responsibility of higher speed. And it's not necessarily anyone's fault. It's just how our road going society evolved - we essentially invented the modern day automobile. We treated it as manifest destiny.

And this isn't just with driving. Everytime I'm in a different country there are always areas for passing. Everyone stands to one side on escalators so people in a hurry can run by. Embarrassingly, if not for the language spoken I can often mistake Americans for people from mainland China. Whenever I land back in states, I know it, because all sense of courtesy disappears. Our airports are ******* zoos. International traveler should be able to back me up on this because I don't think my experiences are isolated. If you compare LAX to Hethrow, Hong Kong, Incheon, or Munich they're all quiet and orderly and courteous in comparison to our gorillas at the TSA.

Please don't mistake my comments and observations for hating the US. I live here and I call this country my home. But there's a lot we can learn from other countries if only we'd try. But we won't because that's not what Americans do.

Ok, I apologize. /rant

Well said my friend, well said. I don't do too much international travel. Maybe this is one of the many reasons the world hates us lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bshields22 (Post 3206511)

Well said my friend, well said. I don't do too much international travel. Maybe this is one of the many reasons the world hates us lol.

Love America, just saying I can understand it in this regard

Pay your fine and move on. You were speeding obviously and rather than please guilty it will be reduced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschool350z (Post 3206518)

Pay your fine and move on. You were speeding obviously and rather than please guilty it will be reduced.

Technically if he was written up for CVC22350 (as he has stated) then he has broken no law:

Basic Speed Law

22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

See how 22350 technically does not say anything about a speed limit? You can go above the speed limit as much as you want, as long as you are driving safely given the weather conditions and visibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N (Post 3206521)

See how 22350 technically does not say anything about a speed limit? You can go above the speed limit as much as you want, as long as you are driving safely given the weather conditions and visibility.

Just my 2 cents...

Actually "technically" he has broken the law because the determination of what is reasonable or prudent isn't decided by him... No offense but I'm in court almost every week and that defense will get the typical eye roll thats nice, here's your fine from the judge.

The traffic ticket lawyers charge so little bc the business model is client volume and by getting fines slightly decreased or getting traffic school/defensive driving classes set up (which anyone can easily do themselves by simply calling and talking to a clerk). The most being done for first offenses and good driving records. Tickets are very rarely outright dismissed and rarely do officers not show up to court as most jurisdiction issue automatic HR write ups for not showing to court. Traffic ticket firms are just as much a racket as speed traps.

Personally, as half the drivers I go past are on their phones nowadays, Im fine with the 60-75 mph on most hwys I drive as I dont trust society as a whole to be responsible enough to have a 80mph limit, which in practicality means everyone would really be going 80-90mph without consequence. The autobahn mortality rates vs US hwys debate has very little to do with speed. Replace their situation with our factors and their rates would quickly increase. Actually the large majority of autobahn deaths do happen on the stretches without limits vs the stretches with limits so this doesnt exactly bolster most arguments.

OP, I agree fight the ticket if you'd like but dont expect to come out clean and without spending money regardless. Not likely with your record a judge is just going to scrub the ticket, thats its you get to go home without paying out. And for someone with double digit speeding tickets, you either still havent learned the smart way to speed like the rest of us hah, you're under 25, or those tickets are spread out thru decades of driving. Im assuming its not the latter... You gotta pay to play...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuruzero (Post 3206674)

Actually, burden of proof for all of the above is on the officer to prove to the judge that the driver is in violation of any of the terms (weather, excessive speed, if so - how?, How was this determined to be dangerous, etc.) So no, you don't get an eye roll. I speak from experience from actually using the law to mount my defense against this very vehicle code. I've personally beaten these tickets before so your theoretical "eye roll" doesn't carry much weight here.

How to mount your defense here (I have personally used this):

( Click to show/hide )

Burden of proof on the officer sounds nice in theory but im talking the practical world. In practicality you have to disprove the officer, not the other way around... And no offense but your experience with a couple tickets (which i dont for a sec believe you got out of by giving that idealistic "but technically" speech to a judge) mounts a small sample size to my in court weekly in different jurisdictions for yrs experience... If the ticket is legit, there's ways to minimize the damage and get it taken off your record, but very very rarely will it be outright dismissed. Thats just the facts regardless of jurisdiction.

Not trying to be a **** dP3NGU1N just giving the OP my take coming from countless experience with not only this specifically but knowledge of crim and civ pro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuruzero (Post 3206697)

I help out a facebook page specifically for students who get tickets for this BS because cops like to sit at the bottom of a hill to hand them out like chocolate (my school is near the top of the hill and the posted speed limit is 25 all the way up, which is nonsense)

Here are a few images from people who have beat their tickets with the defense I recommended to them. I've informed each of them before hand that I'm not a lawyer and am not certified to give legal advice and that any advice I do give them is only my opinion and they bear the responsibility of their actions.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...1a&oe=55C95FF1

This student only posted her refund check
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...2d&oe=560562E0

The problem is always that people are constantly told that they cannot beat a ticket and they shouldn't even try. This is why cities are able to take advantage of us by giving bogus tickets. You're part of the problem if you say "just pay it".

Any other clever come backs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuruzero (Post 3206800)

No offense but I can absolutely tell you're a kid. Only a kid's mentality would would consider it "bogus" to get a speeding ticket when they are in fact driving faster than the posted speed limit... Only a kid's mentality would think it should be up to them and every other individual on the road to determine how fast he/she should legally be able to drive on a public street...

It's a real talent, your ability to completely miss the point of what I've been advocating for. Did you bother to try to understand or did was it so far beyond your comprehension that you said "ahhh screw it I'm just gonna go full trolltard here." I'll start by pointing out that just because I go out of my way to help college student, doesn't mean I'm still a college student. But I guess if you consider anyone under 35 a child then I guess that's fair. Far be it for me to change your definition of age groups, you're more than entitled to your wrong opinion.

That said, let me do my best to reiterate the point for the slower among us:
1. The posted speed limit is a sham
2. Traffic surveys OFTEN (not always) recommend speeds that are higher relative to the posted speed limits for any given street.
3. Traffic surveys are IGNORED by municipalities because they want to pull more people over because the city gets more money that way
4. I want people to fight their tickets because it de-incentivises the city from using tickets as a money grab - more people fight, more judges need to make a ruling, some people get their money back, judges need to get paid, net result is less money for the city, preferably, it's a net negative for the city.

It's bogus because it's a money grab, not simply because it's the law. I bet you're one of those people that judges a movie before he sees it.

And no, 2 pics w/o any trial details doesnt change my view or my advise bc for every 2 there's a thousand instances of it not working and I think we all know that or everyone would be getting out of their tickets right?

Yeah, that's possible. But from my experience, no one so far who's tried to fight their ticket has lost. The one time I "lost" was due to a clerical error where they lost my paper work. I reopened the case and contested it and won. Is your only experience in the courts clerical work? By the way, there's a huge difference between criminal law and traffic law. Furthermore things are handled far differently between municipal courts and federal courts. You seem to have so much to say about the experience you have that simply doesn't apply to traffic law.

And never once did I say I had any issues with contesting tickets. But as an adult and a man Im not going to get upset or call it bogus to get a ticket for going beyond the posted limit when I knowingly and purposely did exactly that. Will i try to get out of it if i can? Sure, thats part of the game. But hey if I dont, the accountability falls on me not the "bogus" ticket writer...

And never once did I say you had any issues with contesting tickets. But since we're on the topic, for someone who doesn't have issues contesting tickets, you sure seem to be fighting pretty hard for him not to contest his ticket. Just saying.

If you have problems with the speed limits and really want to help other students there are more effective avenues to attempt bringing about change in laws, city ordinances, etc. But thinking or promoting the "Lets just ignore the sign bc we dont agree with it" is very likely to financially hurt more people than it helps...

Never told anyone to ignore the sign. There you go making up words you think you read, again.

Alas dP3NGU1N, good luck with it all though. Being a college kid myself before I know that even someone with a thousand times more experience on this topic and crim/civ pro isnt going to change how you see it hah.

Once again, just helping college students.

OP, good luck also. Learn to speed w/o getting so many tickets man lol. Or invest in a great detector hah.

Oh my, who's advocating for ignoring the sign now?

:tiphat:

By the way, saying that you don't mean to be a d!ck doesn't make you not a d!ck. You're definitely still a d!ck. Same goes for "no offense". Seriously? What kind of person half apologizes before everything they say?

You guys are just funny to me.
Are you the same person who sued Mcdonalds on Hot coffee being too hot ?

I have had fines from speeding to pretty much things i cant discuss here.
I have never fought it. I fail to see why i should fight it.
Our highway suggests we can drive at 120 KMPH, I intentionally speed between cameras because i can and its fun. Sometimes i get clocked in by exceeding 10 KMPH ( Probably because i slammed the brakes) Or by a lot more.
You know the speed limit, You speed, Thn u fight it.

I have a very heavy foot too, I hate speed limits, i am almost always speeding.
But saying that you dont accept the posted speed limit is the most immature thing i have ever heard.
I thought i was immature, I thought my retard friends were immature but you have taken the cake on this ****.

Oh and your college Students ******** lol.
'I am a college student. I speed because i can. But i will fight the ticket i got while speeding because Merica"

I am sorry, I dont understand this rubbish. To all i have offended , I dont care. I find this topic very stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dP3NGU1N (Post 3206497)

No need to apologize and that was not a rant. You said it correctly and too bad if many are "butt hurt". When I was living in Germany, the (too many) American's that acted too "Americanish" were always treated by the locals like ****. I never had any issues (with Europeans) while I lived in Europe. On the autobahn I was able to do 160 plus mph and I only passed others while I was in the left lane. If a faster car was approaching me from behind and he/she was faster than me I had (yes, I had to by law) to get out of their way. The left lane was reserved for passing only regardless if speed limits or not. In the three years I lived in Europe, I was never passed on the right. Driving as fast as you can is only allowed on some areas, the rest of the autobahn has speed limits and the suggested limit is 80 mph's.
Whenever I went to a restaurant or any other place I tried my best to communicate in their language. Once they noticed I was not European but I was trying my best, they would do their best to make me feel welcomed and would even try to communicate in my own language as well. On the other hand, the few instances I would see other American's "acting" as a if they deserved everything, they would end up being treated as a second or even third class citizen.
Driving in many parts of Europe is a privilege and so is here as well but many of us don't know the difference between a right and a privilege. The Bill or Rights and the following amendments does not mention anything about driving, so that means it is not a right but a privilege.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leroydsouza (Post 3206860)

But saying that you dont accept the posted speed limit is the most immature thing i have ever heard.
I thought i was immature, I thought my retard friends were immature but you have taken the cake on this ****.

I am sorry, I dont understand this rubbish. To all i have offended , I dont care. I find this topic very stupid.

Another one who just doesn't get it :shakes head:

This is about legitimate traffic studies that show what the speed limit for a given road should be and the municipalities that often ignore them, deliberately making the speed limit lower, which provides an opportunity to increase income from issuing speeding tickets.

These traffic studies are designed to set the speed limit at the SAFEST possible speed for a given road. When municipalities ignore the safety of the general public for the almighty dollar, I have a big fuckin problem with that. And people that don't have a problem with it are the fuckin problem as well.

So you can think the argument is rubbish or not understand it - I personally don't care. But to call those making the argument immature is downright ignorant when you obviously haven't bothered to understand the issue. I've never fought a traffic ticket where the speed limit was set appropriately.